Official E for All Firsthand Impressions DISCUSSION Thread

[Blatherskite]

Why are some people so upset over being able to grab the ledge when facing the wrong way? I can't think of a time when it would actually matter, except for trying to kill ppl with Mario's cape. On the plus side though, we now have a way to easily edgeguard even with the removal of wavedashing. Now you can just dash straight off the edge and grab it.

 

[Hammabro]

They say that the lag after an aerial is reduced, so the L cnacel is pretty much automatic, SHFFLs will be easier to do now, so STFU, why the **** are u people complaining? Jst because it took u long to learn echniques, u just want this game to be melee 2.0? GTFO, ADAPT!! the game WAS gonna be changed to a slower paced game, skaurai said so in 2006! so why the **** are u people surprise?

L cancel is automatic
wavedash is fgone but so WHAT?! we will probably find something as good or better in the months after the release, eriously if u complain cuase theres balance now then ur not a real smash fan, ujust want broken and thats it, a true player adapts to the game and plays it...

Do you still go to Vglan <_<; (That's where I first saw your comic)

On Topic: This is how most people should start thinking about brawl. Everyone outside that demographic should already be thinking that way.

 

[PrinceOfSmash]

They say that the lag after an aerial is reduced, so the L cnacel is pretty much automatic, SHFFLs will be easier to do now, so STFU, why the **** are u people complaining? Jst because it took u long to learn echniques, u just want this game to be melee 2.0? GTFO, ADAPT!! the game WAS gonna be changed to a slower paced game, skaurai said so in 2006! so why the **** are u people surprise?

L cancel is automatic
wavedash is fgone but so WHAT?! we will probably find something as good or better in the months after the release, eriously if u complain cuase theres balance now then ur not a real smash fan, ujust want broken and thats it, a true player adapts to the game and plays it...

Amen to that!

 

[Jx31]

Getting too serious about a game takes a part of the fun in playing it. I know for a fact that I'll still have my share of fun playing SSBB, because I'm not nearly as self-conceited as half the people posting on these boards.

How is playing the game competively taking the fun out of it? People play it that way because it is FUN for THEM. You do not have to play it that way, nor do you have to play people who play like that, so why care? Why can people not get that?!

 

[darkhamsterlord]

Samus has a dark suit red visor, Fusion suit, Sonic costumes are recolors of blue, Fox has a starwolf outfit. Diddy Kong has Dixie Kong outfit without the hair, Bowser has a golden costume, made out of gold.

frikkin' sweet.

Fox = Starwolf opens the doors for others, such as Lucas = Ness, Mario = Dr. Mario (In final version) and more!

 

[Bloshi]

Not just Link's dair. Any aerial move would suck as an offensive maneuver if used on someone on the ground without l-cancelling. High risk/high reward is NOT the basis of any fighting games. The top players always look to minimize risks as much as possible, which is why you rarely see top players rushing in on anyone. You should always limit the times you risk it, no matter how large the reward, unless your judgement tells you the situation will likely go your way.

Something tells me discussing competitive concepts here is futile though. I will just say that removing l-cancelling is bull, if it really has been removed.

Oh, and I like how many people are saying that without WD, we will just now have to start focusing on spacing. Lol, zoning or spacing is a key concept in all fighting games, especially Smash, with or without WD. I don't get what they're talking about, like if all this time the top players haven't been perfecting their zoning as a key part of their overall game.

Point taken. It's not a risk-reward relationship. I still don't mind the removal of l-canceling because l-canceling removes the intended balance of each attack. Perhaps that is a better wording for it. A weaker attack has less lag, and is harder to punish if done on a shield. A stronger attack has more, and should be punished all the time by a shielder. With l-canceling, strong attacks become easier to get away with if done on a shielder. I don't think all aerial attacks without l-canceling are useless on a shield, especially with good spacing. Some attack just don't have much lag to begin with.

Does anyone notice anything different about shield-lag when a shield is hit? There was a massive change from 64 to Melee, so maybe there's one here.

 

[kirbykid]

Getting too serious about a game takes a part of the fun in playing it. I know for a fact that I'll still have my share of fun playing SSBB, because I'm not nearly as self-conceited as half the people posting on these boards.

This may be a fact for you, but it means nothing for the rest of us.

No only are you ignoring multiple versions/definitions of fun, but you're attacking "half the people posting on these boards."

For that, I had to set you straight.

 

[Cruise]

aaaaaaaaahhhh dont post convention info here, post it in the firsthand impressions thread or no one will ever be able to find the info :[

 

[Milos]

WAIT FOR THE GAME TO COME OUT!!! How do you know these techs won't be in the final version of the game. Even if they aren't, stop assuming that there will be less ATs then there were in melee. Stop being a pessimist, or stop posting here.

 

[GTR!]

dude Brawl FTW

end of story
coustomes are so cool in this game its going to be awsome as anything

p.s. i hope link has his magic armor aswell that would look so Bad @$$

 

[NES n00b]

Just because they're removing stuff doesn't mean they aren't adding stuff. Sure, it doesn't add depth when that's all that is happening, but for every removal there's many more additions.

It's not as though people aren't allowed to advocate negativity towards the game, but be realistic about it. Everyone speaks with a bias, that's forsure, but don't ignore the new things being included into the game because of a handful of things that are being removed. Wavedashing being removed isn't a game ruiner, nor is the removal of the other melee techniques, yet people are blowing it out of proportion with premature judgments.

Speaking of new additions to the game, has there been any word on footstool jumping and whether or not it's useful, op, or a waste?

Sorry. Like I said, the majority is "go for whatever Brawl unfolds"

I notice what uses momentum airdodge can do, I see what using the rolling to crawl can do, but they don't do as much as the developer's mistakes. There will be more mistakes. Brawl might be better game because of these better techs. But for god sakes people, stop doing that "stop crying" and praising Sakurai for everything. Gah, there is LESS (not 100%) of a chance that the game will have more depth due to pro actively removing old useful techs. We just need to hope for the best.

This could be the best game ever. Unforseeable techs could be done with footstool, crawl, momentum airdodge, and stuff and lots of different character movesets makes things more varied. So maybe. Sorry, I just hated the unecessary hate for people who are skeptical of ATs being removed.

No hard feelings anyone. Yes, I am still very skeptical, but people have been proven wrong.

 

[Hammabro]

frikkin' sweet.

Fox = Starwolf opens the doors for others, such as Lucas = Ness, Mario = Dr. Mario (In final version) and more!

Even though that is partially true, Ness should still be in brawl because if you knew the Earthbound/Mother (yes they are the same just diff name) then you would know Ness and Lucas are nothing alike and that Ness deserves to be in brawl if above all else for the fact he was an original. As for Dr.Mario he shouldn't even be allowed a costume just for the fact there are better choices like tanooki suit or frog suit (for the lulz). (In other words GTFO Dr.Mario!)

 

[Milos]

Cruise, there's a topic for the firsthand impressions. it's linked on the first page. people haven't gotten back from e for all yet.

 

[PrinceOfSmash]

Too bad ice climbers arnt playable i wood love to see the fs and i wonder about dsync? grr my heading is going to rushing tonite when i try to sleep

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

New impressions from Gea are up

Bowser is not as godly as gimpy made him out to be, but he's certainly better than he was in Melee. His taunts bite.

No new impressions of Sonic or DK D:

Diddy is quite speedy. I was worried he was the next Pichu from IGN impressions.

 

[henryfish]

Now I have an embarrassing question. I keep seeing the acronym "DI" used, but can't quite figure out what it refers to. Any help?

(I just know it's going to be something obvious, but oh well.)

 

[Galt]

I don't understand why people think we'll be able to find all these new advanced techniques in Brawl. Doesn't what we know so far already disprove that to some degree? Sakurai is working extra-hard here to make sure that exactly that *can't* happen. He's trying his best to make sure that the game is what it appears to be--a party game. I'll break it down for you with an analogy.

Look at Street Fighter II. When it was released, Capcom had no idea that players would learn to cancel their moves directly into specials, but that went on to become the core of the Capcom fighting system, because they used it and regulated it when SFIII was designed. The SF is now the most popular fighting franchise ever.

Melee, similarly, had hidden depth which was not imagined by its creator. Only, instead of embracing that depth, like Capcom, Sakurai has chosen to remove it. What's more, he's purposely making the game shallower by removing L-canceling, which was present in the previous two games. So not only is he removing the unintended effects, but he is removing the things which he purposely built into the others.

See the difference? People think it'll take ages to discover ATs in Brawl, because it did with Melee. The analogy doesn't work, however, because now, we know what to look for in Brawl--in fact, we've already looked for lots of it, and it isn't there. There simply isn't the diversity of functionality, from what anyone can tell, that would lead to ATs. And if they do arise, what's to say they won't be immediately corrected in Brawl v.1.1?

 

[Stryks]

Do you still go to Vglan <_<; (That's where I first saw your comic)

On Topic: This is how most people should start thinking about brawl. Everyone outside that demographic should already be thinking that way.

no mroe VGLAN for me, only sonic comics got views, its sickening...

for all of u complaining here it is again:

They say that the lag after an aerial is reduced, so the L cnacel is pretty much automatic, SHFFLs will be easier to do now, so STFU, why the **** are u people complaining? Jst because it took u long to learn echniques, u just want this game to be melee 2.0? GTFO, ADAPT!! the game WAS gonna be changed to a slower paced game, skaurai said so in 2006! so why the **** are u people surprise?

L cancel is automatic
wavedash is fgone but so WHAT?! we will probably find something as good or better in the months after the release, eriously if u complain cuase theres balance now then ur not a real smash fan, ujust want broken and thats it, a true player adapts to the game and plays it...

 

[NES n00b]

This may be a fact for you, but it means nothing for the rest of us.

No only are you ignoring multiple versions/definitions of fun, but you're attacking "half the people posting on these boards."

For that, I had to set you straight.

Did you read my correction post? <_<

Well, anyways more balanced (useful and not overpowering other options) options = more depth.

Edit: I also agree with your post. Gah, I wouldn't play in tournies if it wasn't fun.

2nd Edit: DI = Directional Influence which is the ability to change trajectories of a certain motion. If you get hit foward, you can DI upward to change trajectory so you won't die horizontally. There is lots of small somewhat complicated properties of DI but this is a general idea.

 

[Zink]

Now I have an embarrassing question. I keep seeing the acronym "DI" used, but can't quite figure out what it refers to. Any help?

(I just know it's going to be something obvious, but oh well.)

"Directional Influence". It's basically holding a direction while being attacked in order to move away from the opponent and avoid follow-up hits. There's more to it that that but this is the basic idea.

 

[Chepe]

New impressions from Gea are up

Bowser is not as godly as gimpy made him out to be, but he's certainly better than he was in Melee. His taunts bite.

No new impressions of Sonic or DK D:

Diddy is quite speedy. I was worried he was the next Pichu from IGN impressions.

I think Gimpy has a better take on Bowser you know, being extremely good with him and all. I trust him in interpreting Bowser's new strengths and flaws better...

 

[henryfish]

And if they do arise, what's to say they won't be immediately corrected in Brawl v.1.1?

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure if I care enough to get worried about it (I don't have the time or inclination to become tournament good, but enjoy Smash immensely while playing with friends. But that's just me, and I do hope that some ATs are discovered for the tournament players.

However, has any evidence been shown that there will be downloadable patches? Or is the Brawl 1.1 comment just an aside?

 

[AtticusFinch]

...

I've been following this thread for some time now, and I swear, it has gotten no were! XD

All I have been reading in the last hour is "L-cancel is out, boohoo!" Then someone says "Get over it" and then some spam. Same goes for wavedash.

Their not in it, that's it, and no matter how stupid it may seem to you, it's a fact. (I don't think they'll add them in, so don't give me that "It's only a demo" Bull****.)
And for those who are looking forward to finding new techs......wtf??? Melee was fun, but if you played against someone who new the the techs, and you didn't, it was no fun for them, they just get whopped, and then came the Johns.

Melee was fun for me because no two matches were ever the same, but once I added techs into my game, all the mathces were basicly the same. Me fox, use WD, they lose, start again. Brawl will be so new, so good, you'll be playing it for years to come, and it will still feel as fun as it was the first time you played it ^^

Now, let me put on my fire proof suit, and get ready for the flames XD

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Point taken. It's not a risk-reward relationship. I still don't mind the removal of l-canceling because l-canceling removes the intended balance of each attack. Perhaps that is a better wording for it. A weaker attack has less lag, and is harder to punish if done on a shield. A stronger attack has more, and should be punished all the time by a shielder. With l-canceling, strong attacks become easier to get away with if done on a shielder. I don't think all aerial attacks without l-canceling are useless on a shield, especially with good spacing. Some attack just don't have much lag to begin with.

Does anyone notice anything different about shield-lag when a shield is hit? There was a massive change from 64 to Melee, so maybe there's one here.

Well, in Melee, even l-canceled attacks had varying lag dependant upon strength. For example, Ganon's dair is highly punishable even if l-canceled, while Pikachu's nair is very hard to punish. There was still balance in regards to that.

At least you're more understanding than the majority of people here.

 

[henryfish]

"Directional Influence". It's basically holding a direction while being attacked in order to move away from the opponent and avoid follow-up hits. There's more to it that that but this is the basic idea.

Ah. Makes sense. I wonder why DI is so much weirder in Brawl, as one of the people stated.

 

[PrinceOfSmash]

where are ppl getting thes suposed "impressions from gea?

 

[Japanese Monk]

I don't understand why people think we'll be able to find all these new advanced techniques in Brawl. Doesn't what we know so far already disprove that to some degree? Sakurai is working extra-hard here to make sure that exactly that *can't* happen. He's trying his best to make sure that the game is what it appears to be--a party game. I'll break it down for you with an analogy.

Look at Street Fighter II. When it was released, Capcom had no idea that players would learn to cancel their moves directly into specials, but that went on to become the core of the Capcom fighting system, because they used it and regulated it when SFIII was designed. The SF is now the most popular fighting franchise ever.

Melee, similarly, had hidden depth which was not imagined by its creator. Only, instead of embracing that depth, like Capcom, Sakurai has chosen to remove it. What's more, he's purposely making the game shallower by removing L-canceling, which was present in the previous two games. So not only is he removing the unintended effects, but he is removing the things which he purposely built into the others.

See the difference? People think it'll take ages to discover ATs in Brawl, because it did with Melee. The analogy doesn't work, however, because now, we know what to look for in Brawl--in fact, we've already looked for lots of it, and it isn't there. There simply isn't the diversity of functionality, from what anyone can tell, that would lead to ATs. And if they do arise, what's to say they won't be immediately corrected in Brawl v.1.1?

Thats a good analogy. Im not upset about the removal of WD...but I do wonder WHY sakurai did it. When like you say, capcom embraced canceling and supermove canceling. It DID make the game deaper though. I feel that all those techniques such as WD did make it more deep too...

Oh well.

 

[Luigi Ka-master]

Lol wow let's see what we've got here...

Getting too serious about a game takes a part of the fun in playing it. I know for a fact that I'll still have my share of fun playing SSBB, because I'm not nearly as self-conceited as half the people posting on these boards.

Lol, pretty sure one of, if not THE main reason why people play smash competitively is because they love getting better at the game,(which kind of naturally assumes they like the game itself, a lot) and in order to continue getting better at it, they have to become competitive with it.

I can with confidence say that the majority of pros who play Melee love the game a lot more than people who play casually.

They say that the lag after an aerial is reduced, so the L cnacel is pretty much automatic, SHFFLs will be easier to do now, so STFU, why the **** are u people complaining? Jst because it took u long to learn echniques, u just want this game to be melee 2.0? GTFO, ADAPT!! the game WAS gonna be changed to a slower paced game, skaurai said so in 2006! so why the **** are u people surprise?

Lol wow, you're kinda dumb. My SHFFLs are gonna be easier?? Really?? That's great! Now I don't have to invest any time at all into learning how to do them, and neither does my mom or her friends! I think I really see it your way now. Thanks.

L cancel is automatic
wavedash is fgone but so WHAT?! we will probably find something as good or better in the months after the release, eriously if u complain cuase theres balance now then ur not a real smash fan, ujust want broken and thats it, a true player adapts to the game and plays it...

LOL, yeah, sorry ya got me, I love broken ol' Luigi too much.

I didn't even say anything about WD, you should read posts more often.

You aren't really a pro if your on equal terms with a noob...

lol true, you got me there.

 

[Zauron]

SO summary..

Fox is nerfed
Peach is nerfed
Ike is slow and possibly may suck
No wavedashing
No L-Canceling
No wave-landing
Dash dancing is still in
Mario is either slightly better or slightly worse
Link is slow but slightly better and has a badass costume
Sonic is over rated and average
Not much on diddy kong besides a revealed move
No mention of maps
Samus is slightly nerfed and ZSS is only usable through final smash
Nothing on: Pit, yoshi, DK, and Pikachu

Anything I miss?

Yoshi's Up+B can be used repeatedly giving a boost each time - can use it as a bit of air stalling like Mario's cape or Marth's Side+B.

 

[Proven]

I don't understand why people think we'll be able to find all these new advanced techniques in Brawl. Doesn't what we know so far already disprove that to some degree? Sakurai is working extra-hard here to make sure that exactly that *can't* happen. He's trying his best to make sure that the game is what it appears to be--a party game. I'll break it down for you with an analogy.

Look at Street Fighter II. When it was released, Capcom had no idea that players would learn to cancel their moves directly into specials, but that went on to become the core of the Capcom fighting system, because they used it and regulated it when SFIII was designed. The SF is now the most popular fighting franchise ever.

Melee, similarly, had hidden depth which was not imagined by its creator. Only, instead of embracing that depth, like Capcom, Sakurai has chosen to remove it. What's more, he's purposely making the game shallower by removing L-canceling, which was present in the previous two games. So not only is he removing the unintended effects, but he is removing the things which he purposely built into the others.

See the difference? People think it'll take ages to discover ATs in Brawl, because it did with Melee. The analogy doesn't work, however, because now, we know what to look for in Brawl--in fact, we've already looked for lots of it, and it isn't there. There simply isn't the diversity of functionality, from what anyone can tell, that would lead to ATs. And if they do arise, what's to say they won't be immediately corrected in Brawl v.1.1?

Wrong. It took forever to find the Advanced Techniques because we didn't know what to look for. If Brawl has new Advanced Techniques, then we're right back in the same spot not knowing what to look for. All we know is that the old stuff is gone, so we have nothing to start with, but it doesn't mean we won't find anything else.

And remember, Smash is not Street Fighter. As many feel, the strengths of Smash make it close to the opposite of Street Fighter. They even have different developers!

 

[NES n00b]

Tourney*** stuff

You know you suck at this game.

Ah, I am just kidding. Why can't people understand that people are worried about advance techs being removed? It is not because we are scared to adapt. . . . . .

 

[aho43]

Do people actually have fun playing overpowered characters and winning? It's so much more rewarding to beat a cheap player with an underdog character.

I have fun being good and having lots of tech skill and being able to play every character fast and ****** noobs with anyone. The way to make the game more balanced shouldn't be by making everyone's potential worse, but instead making every character better.

If you don't want to WD that is fine, nobody says you have to. Unless it is something you have mastered and know how to use, and at that point decide it isn't useful, don't say its pointless. I haven't met anyone who actually can WD proficiently that thinks its a dumb technique. Removing options that already exist doesn't automatically open the door for any new advanced techniques. Who is to say there will be any new method for advanced movement? It would just be something we're hoping and crossing our fingers for.

WDing out of shield is a crucial technique for advanced play. If you don't know how to wavedash out of shield, punishing f-smash spamming players becomes much more difficult. All you people saying you don't care about WD being out I suspect will argue, well you'll just have to find a different way to punish that. Which is true, people will, but that doesn't mean its a good thing. Certain idiotic techniques will be much more viable simply because the game has been dumbed down.

Ever more so with L-cancelling. If L-cancelling is gone, and if what I've read is true, some moves still have plenty of lag, attacking a shield with an aerial is totally worthless. Why? Shieldgrab. Spacing can only get you so far.

The lifespan of Brawl should be a long time, much like how long Melee has lasted up til now. The reason Melee has had such a strong community and strong tournament scene is because the amount of depth the game has, and the amount of time one can put into getting good at it. Removing advanced techniques makes the game less viable to keep everyones' interest. Furthermore, if Brawl is worse than Melee in terms of providing a competitive platform for tournaments, the people who attend melee tourneys currently will just keep playing melee, and treat Brawl like an unwanted child. Nobody wants that.

I really honestly hope this is just a case of the demo being really raw. Either way i think its onlinepetition time.

 

[estion11]

zomg i couldnt have said it better then strykes, wavedashing is out go cry. If you are already down talking brawl you should just go and play melee and stop whining. We dont even know if wave dashing is out for sure its only a demo. But even if it is this is brawl not melee 2 and it will reign over you no matter what! I personally think the game will be better from the lack of wave dashing though because it will allow for a much bigger spectrum of playing style.

 

[AKC12]

Because it's more pronouned in this game, or DI will have a larger effect from what I read.

 

[NintendoWarrior]

Can you repeatedly do up b attack in the air with no lag? I thought I saw a vid of it. Also, has Mario gotten slower? Or is this game speed like that of Smash 64? And how come no one used Pit?

 

[NES n00b]

I love you Aho.

That is what I have been trying to say. Maybe I just suck at posting.

 

[UsernameLink]

"Fox's lasers have less range, but you can now short hop TRIPLE laser. Epic."

less range? big maps welcome back? hyrule temple!

 

[Falco&Victory]

IMO, either you'll miss WDing or you can't do it. Prove me wrong

well, not Gimpy, but even he has to miss wavelanding

 

[PrinceOfSmash]

"Fox's lasers have less range, but you can now short hop TRIPLE laser. Epic."

less range? big maps welcome back? hyrule temple!

How can a horizontally moving prjectile such as a laser have less range? dose it dissaper b4 it gets to the end of the stage? that sounds stupid as all hell

 

[AtticusFinch]

IMO, either you'll miss WDing or you can't do it. Prove me wrong

well, not Gimpy, but even he has to miss wavelanding

Umm, I can wavedash, and Im glad it's gone. None of my frineds ever want to play anyomre, and I thinks it's becuase of me and my wavedashing. It just pushed me over the edge, and they didn't have a chance at winning. So if it's gone, then they'll want to play again, and i'll have more people to play with. Everyone wins!