Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Deathcarter]

Don't worry Shadowlink. You at least have one person (not from the Sonic forums) who does not buy into the sucky priority crap Sonic always seems to attract.

 

[ShadowLink84]

blargh *falls over*
meh its annoying thoug...
Its like when people went WOMG Link's ^B is soooooo hard.

Seriously its been over 6 months its not that hard to get things straight.

 

[Deathcarter]

blargh *falls over*
meh its annoying thoug...
Its like when people went WOMG Link's ^B is soooooo hard.

Seriously its been over 6 months its not that hard to get things straight.

Your THAT surprised by my reply? But anyhow, Sonic does not have much priority on most of his moves, but people don't realize that a few key moves of his don't suffer from this problem:
-Uair (has too much vertical range)
-ftilt
-fair
-Usmash
-sideB (The fact that it can be cancelled with a second jump pretty much means most good Sonics won't let this move clash)
-Dsmash (too difficult to anticipate and counter this move with an attack)

Plus grabs, as far as I've seen, are his most important ground tools since they are quicker than most of his attacks.


Also, where would you anticipate Sonic on the tier list anyway?

 

[ROOOOY!]

I'ma jump in and answer that question.
I'd say low tier. Despite having average enough tourney results, people see him as a useless character, probably because such people are still living in the ages of when brawl first came out and are still 'omg sonic no priority blaaaargh'
Grabs are important too. D-throw leads into real tech-chases, u-air's good to start juggling characters at low percents, b-throw can kill from the side of FD at about the 150% mark. F-throw's the only screwy one.

Spoiler

I personally believe Sonic deserves bottom of mid

Edit : Tenki your avatar is beautiful.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I don't think that we should all try to tackle an entire tier-list at once. Ordering 30-something characters all at the same time is really tricky, so I tried to just make a high-tier list and concentrate on my choices.


MK
Snake
G&W
ROB
Falco



MK: Speed, priority, and a good recovery. He is unstoppable in the right hands.

Snake: Very strong, but his recovery is stopping him from getting the top spot. He also can get punished and chaingrabbed by the lighter chars. He might fall a few spots if everybody finds out how to abuse his weaknessess. But for now he remains a heavy, powerful character with cannot be ignored. Furthermore, he seems to counter MK.

G&W: A killing machine. He may be one of the lightest characters in the game, but it doesn't matter how heavy you are when your oponent is face down in the dirt. With disjointed hit-boxes, the nastiest turtle you've ever seen, edgeguarding bacon, and a projectile-absorbing bucket. This guy should be feared.

ROB: The classic camper. This guy has a 5-second recovery, a wicked aerial game, and 2 projectiles. When you add all of that together, you get is an edguarding demon who pwns you in the air and weighs as much as a hippo. However, this WALL-E has a tricky time killing people, so it stops him from reaching the top.

Falco: Lasers, speed, a reflector, and the meteor-smash everybody hates. Falco is a really nasty offensive beast who can punish people who aren't careful when the get back to the stage. His reflector can counter projectiles and hurt approaches while his laser lets him annoy at a distance. This bird has a nasty chink in his armour though, in the form of his recovery. To put it bluntly; it sucks.


Characters that might make it:

Diddy Kong
Pikachu
Dedede
Donkey Kong
Toon Link
Wario

Umm... I don't see Marth and he's definitely top 11, but nice idea. Marth>Falco

 

[Blistering Speed]

I did not know that aerial priority thing, that's actually quite interesting.
But anywayz, no KO movez so botm for joo

 

[ShadowLink84]

I'ma jump in and answer that question.
I'd say low tier. Despite having average enough tourney results, people see him as a useless character, probably because such people are still living in the ages of when brawl first came out and are still 'omg sonic no priority blaaaargh'
Grabs are important too. D-throw leads into real tech-chases, u-air's good to start juggling characters at low percents, b-throw can kill from the side of FD at about the 150% mark. F-throw's the only screwy one.

Spoiler

I personally believe Sonic deserves bottom of mid

Edit : Tenki your avatar is beautiful.

Fthrow has its uses too. you can set up for a Fair/uair and aid in juggling.

Its the least useful though

 

[Morrigan]

You may have a point there. For Jigglypuff at least.

D: Peach; Sonic, Pikachu, Lucas, Ness, Zelda, Toon Link, Ike, Jigglypuff, Samus, Bowser, Pokémon Trainer, Luigi

Jigglypuff has the best tournament outings of the percieved bottom tiers (these are the non-detailed July 31 rankings) so she might make it into the bottom of low tier. She probably won't go higher though because of bad matchups.

She's there because one person placed 2nd with her. I think it was just that.

 

[What?]

Alright, so what's the official Top Tier and High Tier list for Brawl?

I've heard that Top Tier is:

Snake
Meta Knight
Dedede

ROB
Marth
Falco


Toon Link was supposed to be "God" tier, but I guess nobody is playing him in Tournaments. G&W I heard was rumored to be amazing, which I guess is true based on these discussions. ICs were supposed to be "God" or "Banned" tier, but I haven't heard much from that front in a while.

Isn't DK supposed to be quickly rising up the list now?

As far as Sonic goes;

I have to agree with the recent comments about him. Yeah, when we first picked him up, he was extremely lacking in kill moves.

However, once his play style was ascertained and his high priority moves were discovered, he became much more efficient for Brawl's..."particular" type of gameplay.

Brawl is a distinctly campy/spammy game if you really want to win and I can't think of a better attribute to have for punishing mistakes than Really Freaking Stupid Speed.

That being said; I still don't see Sonic jumping too high on the tier list because all the "higher" characters' killing opportunities are superior in numbers.

Solid Killing with Sonic = Gimp & Up Air and MAYBE F-Smash & D-Smash at high percents.

Just think about the many ways Snake, MK, ROB, Marth, DDD, Falco, DK, etc. can eat stock.

But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. <3

 

[ShadowLink84]

They don't need a high percentage to kill.
Fsmash and Dsmash are both quite powerful as is the Bair.

sonic can make up for his lack of kill moves with his damage racking ability but the moves for killing aren't as fast as they should be.

 

[Quik17]

Three characters that I think will become viable tournament competitors in the
next year or so are TL, Luigi, and Fox.
Toon Link has amazing projectiles making him one of the best campers in the game. He has no real gaping holes and sooner or later good players will start picking him up.
Luigi has arguably the best aerials in the game. Every single one of his aerials can be used twice in a short hop. His normal air has high priority and can combo into many moves. Not to mention his smashes are terrific killing moves.
Lastly Fox has insane speed. One of the few characters that can be somewhat played at Melee speed. His upsmash is one of the best kill moves in the game and he can combo very well.
Just my two cents.

 

[gallax]

what about the IC's? they are monsters in the grab department and can rack up free damage with those cg's. they are gonna be a higher tier in the future.

 

[Eclipse_the_Sun]

Can someone please explain to me why Lucas is in low. From what I've seen of him his aerials are fast, f-smash is quick while u-smash can kill at ridiculously low % if u can pull it off, his tilts seem solid, he has a decent projectile and he has multiple options for recovery. This is only from my own experience and while i do know about the marth death grab its only one match up against an otherwise solid character.

 

[Dragonslayer9]

Can someone please explain to me why Lucas is in low. From what I've seen of him his aerials are fast, f-smash is quick while u-smash can kill at ridiculously low % if u can pull it off, his tilts seem solid, he has a decent projectile and he has multiple options for recovery.

Same here, I would like to know myself.

 

[Pieisthebest]

Me three!

10Ness>>Lucasbutlucasisgood

 

[ROOOOY!]

He's just underused at tournies seemingly.
I wouldn't take him or Ness though, not with the death grabs and all that >_<

 

[Pieisthebest]

Umm, Im pretty sure the ness chaingrab was confirmed to only work 4 times, and that the lucas one doesnt work at all, as far as i know O_o

 

[popsofctown]

Lucas ones don't work at all i think, but i think that Marth vs. Ness is a real infinite.

 

[Blistering Speed]

True but most characters still get a free smash off of release. Then again, I dont see Wario dropping a huge amount in the tiers and if anything his grab release punishment is worse. ZSS and Yoshi can infinite him and most people get a free smash/aerial. Either bump Ness and Lucas, or drop Wario people! Wario's overall awesomeness will keep him high , but he's no longer high tier because of it.

 

[_Phloat_]

what about the IC's? they are monsters in the grab department and can rack up free damage with those cg's. they are gonna be a higher tier in the future.

Crap grab range, hard to lead into grabs, and terrible game too far off the ledge. If you misstime an airdodge then one of your climbers will get hit, and your recovery just got olimar level..

A grab was an instant kill in melee too, but the ICs were never top tier material.

They are extremely good at punishing some mistakes, so I expect to see them rise.. just not to higher tier.

 

[Justblaze647]

lol Chudat made a single character jump six spots on the melee tier list... and besides... the worst character in brawl is jiggles by far. no attack range. no priority. no speed. crappy b moves, and a non existen up b.

 

[popsofctown]

True but most characters still get a free smash off of release. Then again, I dont see Wario dropping a huge amount in the tiers and if anything his grab release punishment is worse. ZSS and Yoshi can infinite him and most people get a free smash/aerial. Either bump Ness and Lucas, or drop Wario people! Wario's overall awesomeness will keep him high , but he's no longer high tier because of it.

I thought only the tall characters can force the jump break. A lot of the taller characters are lower tier, except Snake, but Wario can duck Snake's grab and, like he can against any character, land his dairs behind the opponent.

He's either top of the middle tier or the bottom of the high tier, which probably isn't too far off from Blistering Speed's opinion. If Wario keeps doing amazing things, like Futile's wins in California and Reflex's impressive showing in the Fast1, I don't think he can be called a middle tier character, even if he has lower tier neutral matchups from the grab-release.


@above post: Jigglypuff has incredible floatiness, and she can avoid getting grabbed after aerial approaches like few other characters can. I think she's just massively unpopular because she's a lighter, projectile free, and weaker (kill power) version of Yoshi. (or Wario.)
Captain Falcon is a worse character. all his aerials get him shield grabbed, he has a bad recovery that nearly balances his weight vs. Jigglypuff's lightness and good recovery. He has trouble approaching defensive characters, while Jiggs can float around and find holes

 

[DanGR]

lol Chudat made a single character jump six spots on the melee tier list... and besides... the worst character in brawl is jiggles by far. no attack range. no priority. no speed. crappy b moves, and a non existen up b.

She's also got a sick edgeguarding game in her WoP, the best aerial maneuverability in the game, low percent kills with rest, one of the best recoveries, a nasty air game, and combo ability. Yup, she's the worst.

 

[Morrigan]

Don't forget her superultralightweight (she star-KOs when her shield breaks...like, WHAT THE ****)

 

[Blistering Speed]

However, she does have some near impossible matchups. Hell, Id put a few matchups as 9-1 as there is literally some stuff she can't do stuff about, like DDDs B Air for example.

CF worst matchup is probably 8-2, but is the worse overall character anyway.

 

[Mr.Charisma]

Pika for high tier?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

^Naaaa... Pika for High-Mid tier.

 

[exidid]

Pika is good!

From what I've heard :/
And from the weekly backroom discussion.

 

[Mr.Charisma]

well pika has a kick *** projectile, QACing, great approach because of QUC, good smashes, good ariels.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

IMO people who should be looked at more.

G&W
Yoshi
Link
TL
Zamus
Wario
Snake - should he really be 2nd/first?

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

As long as you psychos stay away from PT, I will be happy. STOP CORRUPTING MY MAINS!

 

[Mmac]

Honestly, I think we looked into Yoshi enough >_>

Then again, I still see people put Yoshi in the Bottom Tier, with usually the most stupid or untrue reasons as of why


Also, Ivysaur Blows! He's just a Flower Dinosaur Thing that throws leaves at people!

Spoiler

Nah, I'm JK. I <3 Ivysaur ; )

 

[~ Gheb ~]

IMO people who should be looked at more.

G&W
Yoshi
Link
TL
Zamus
Wario
Snake - should he really be 2nd/first?

Do you have any reasons for naming these characters is it really only opinion based?
I don't know why we should look closer at G&W or Wario...

 

[Mmac]

I don't know why we should look closer at G&W or Wario...

I can see a reason for Wario. Two Infinites, and Several free Smashes/Airs/Other stuff on release

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I can see a reason for Wario. Two Infinites, and Several free Smashes/Airs/Other stuff on release

These are reasons why Wario is great but not why we need to look closer at him. After all, everybody knows, that these are great techsfor W

People you should look closer at are mostly those, who are low because they're underused like Mario or Peach

 

[gallax]

dont forget about luigi. i think he is very underrated.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I can see a reason for Wario. Two Infinites, and Several free Smashes/Airs/Other stuff on release

These are reasons why Wario is great but not why we need to look closer at him. After all, everybody knows, that these are great techsfor W

Im so considering sigging this. Seriously.

 

[Luigi player]

dont forget about luigi. i think he is very underrated.

I don't know about Luigi... I think the only things he has going for him are a bit combo ability, his amazing recovery and his firejumppunch.

I still think he's underrated though, and probably high-mid tier.

 

[Kazon]

My version of Popsofctown's list:

Mid:
Pikachu
Lucario
Zelda/Sheik
Pit
Ice Climbers
Diddy Kong
Wolf
Peach
Fox
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Luigi
Lucas
Jigglypuff
Ness
Mario
Yoshi
Bowser
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer

i dont see TLink that low, he has one of the best projectile games, and a good recovery.
he cant be that low, just for his lack on killing powerr, so why is he placed there?

 

[ShadowLink84]

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