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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

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popsofctown

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ftilt doesn't actually work that well against the tornado.

Anyway, at a lower level of play, it may appear that Meta Knight is at a disadvantage. But really good players usually say that Meta Knight has so many more options than DK that he is never at a disadvantage.
 

Veggi

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ftilt doesn't actually work that well against the tornado.

Anyway, at a lower level of play, it may appear that Meta Knight is at a disadvantage. But really good players usually say that Meta Knight has so many more options than DK that he is never at a disadvantage.
If ftilt doesn't work that well, what answer did you want?

You say really good players say DK has less options, but what options do you mean?
 

Judge Judy

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I mostly agree with this but....Mario as high tier material?
Yah, he really can control approach plus his juggling and gimping abilities allows him to quickly tack on dmg. He was built to deal with everything to at least some degree, but his grab range sucks and edgehogging kills his Up B most of the time. Mario plays a lot like diddy.
 

Mmac

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Apparently Yoshi and Ike can do something similar also, according to Niko_K.

Though he doesn't really explain on the other two
 

Veggi

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What the ****?

That's amazing. It is infact christmas come early.

Was there any trick to that? Or...?
From what it looks like both MK's attacks and Peach's Toad hit multiple times because of the turnip. I really don't know though.

Apparently Yoshi and Ike can do something similar also, according to Niko_K.

Though he doesn't really explain on the other two
He's really leaving all the Yoshi mains in the dark. I really have no idea how it's supposed to work with Yoshi.
 

DanGR

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My version of Popsofctown's list:

God:
Meta Knight

Not top. god tier. He is better than every character in almost every way. He has no disadvantages except maybe peach if Niko's discovery is as big as some people think it isl, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they're wrong. He skews the tourney results too much for me to consider tourney results. period.

High:
Snake
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
Falco
R.O.B
King Dedede
Captain Olimar
Wario
Donkey Kong
Kirby

Snake and GaW have exploitable weaknesses. MK doesn't. Everyone in this tier is clearly better than everyone else in the mid tier.

Mid:
Pikachu
Lucario
Zelda/Sheik
Pit
Ice Climbers
Diddy Kong
Wolf
Peach
Fox
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Luigi
Lucas
Jigglypuff
Ness
Mario
Yoshi
Bowser
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer

All are too close to be separated by tiers. Some are easier to use than others, but they're relatively even. Jiggs is not bad. If you think she is, you haven't ever played a decent jiggs user.

Low:
Ike
Samus
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

This is self explanatory. they aren't very good.

I don't give a crud if you think I'm wrong or right. The fact that MK is broken and should be banned and isn't is enough to justify this character placement. Be sure make rude comments about my list. I'll be looking forward to them.
 

Veggi

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I like the roster, but I think Diddy should be higher. He doesn't have any terrible matchups and his bananas are great. He can KO decently and rack up damage much better. He has a good recovery too.
 

Deathcarter

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That is irrelevent and very ill-informed mostly because the majority of the world is not comprised of Christians, let alone ones devoted to Jesus; A good chunk yes, but not the majority. So take that **** off of the thread NOW!!



On topic, I don't know why people are apprehensive about my idea on placing everyone not named Snake, MK, G&W, Marth, DDD, Falco, and ROB in a really large low tier divided into sub-tiers. It is at least better than banning a couple choice characters.
 

popsofctown

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On topic, I don't know why people are apprehensive about my idea on placing everyone not named Snake, MK, G&W, Marth, DDD, Falco, and ROB in a really large low tier divided into sub-tiers. It is at least better than banning a couple choice characters.
Not a couple. Only one character is horribly more powerful than all the others, it is MK. Snake is fine. He's top of high tier, but he's on the same tier as his friends. And all mid tier characters, if played well, can challenge those high tiers.

MK's incredible matchups and near flawlessness almost necessitate the need for an empty tier in between him and the other characters, just to show the gap.

@on Kirby: Kirby is an all around good character. He's very much like Mario, he's impressive in flashes, but actually needs to stay in mid tier.

@on Diddy: Diddy is either high, or top of mid. Probably high. I rarely see a losing Diddy who isn't a player failing to maximize potential.

Ike and Samus are mid tier, IMO... not a big deal though, they are pretty lame.
 

Deathcarter

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i'm not christian.. i don't even believe in god/jesus.. just thought it'd be funny

the people on the guiltygear forums thought it was funny.. they weren't being gay trying to talk for other people

so here it is again.. for laughs
http://www.dustloop.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=249&stc=1&d=1187840304
Oh, sorry then. Reading some 12/21/12 propaganda before coming to Smashboards really gets to you. Sorry for being offensive.



I personally would like Meta Knight banned. Not because he is really good, but because very skilled players with a mid or even a high tier character can get beaten by just good Meta Knights. But unfortunately, a ban on MK to turn the Smash fanbase head over heels and I can honestly see A LOT of good players leaving due to not agreeing with a plan like that.
 

exidid

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A and B to Specials, X and Y to Shield, C-stick to attack and R to jump?

There were people who were actually testing it!

"NikoK" said it was a grab release, but the video didn't show any grabs.

He just put damage ratio to 2.0 and spored the hell out of MK. So ROFL.
 

Roller

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My version of Popsofctown's list:

God:
Meta Knight

Not top. god tier. He is better than every character in almost every way. He has no disadvantages except maybe peach if Niko's discovery is as big as some people think it isl, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they're wrong. He skews the tourney results too much for me to consider tourney results. period.

High:
Snake
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
Falco
R.O.B
King Dedede
Captain Olimar
Wario
Donkey Kong
Kirby

Snake and GaW have exploitable weaknesses. MK doesn't. Everyone in this tier is clearly better than everyone else in the mid tier.

Mid:
Pikachu
Lucario
Zelda/Sheik
Pit
Ice Climbers
Diddy Kong
Wolf
Peach
Fox
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Luigi
Lucas
Jigglypuff
Ness
Mario
Yoshi
Bowser
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer

All are too close to be separated by tiers. Some are easier to use than others, but they're relatively even. Jiggs is not bad. If you think she is, you haven't ever played a decent jiggs user.

Low:
Ike
Samus
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

This is self explanatory. they aren't very good.

I don't give a crud if you think I'm wrong or right. The fact that MK is broken and should be banned and isn't is enough to justify this character placement. Be sure make rude comments about my list. I'll be looking forward to them.
I would switch pika and kirby. other than that I like it.
 

ChronoPenguin

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o_o I like DanGr's list.
Anyways I think the tier top should now look like

Metaknight
Game & Watch
Snake.

Snake has mines nikita, mortar.
Mine's really don't matter, the better you get the more managable they are.
If anything mines are one of snake's less worrying attacks, because you just need to pay attention to the field, which you should do anyways. More people are starting to feel Snake does not have large advantages and just slight advantages if not neutral match's on their characters.
This would mean Snake is an overall good character with many neutral or good match up's.

G&W is just I don't even know. Everything he does is without no doubt a threat. Everything, You can go and say Snake's mine's aren't all that.

But unless you don't have projectiles (other than mundane ones) you have to beware of the bucket too.

I dunno it's just starting to look like that now. Yes Snake has tilts but G&W has better aerials, getting hit by any of his smash's sucks! and his tilt's are good too.
 

~ Gheb ~

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My version of Popsofctown's list:

God:
Meta Knight

Not top. god tier. He is better than every character in almost every way. He has no disadvantages except maybe peach if Niko's discovery is as big as some people think it isl, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they're wrong. He skews the tourney results too much for me to consider tourney results. period.

High:
Snake
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
Falco
R.O.B
King Dedede
Captain Olimar
Wario
Donkey Kong
Kirby

Snake and GaW have exploitable weaknesses. MK doesn't. Everyone in this tier is clearly better than everyone else in the mid tier.

Mid:
Pikachu
Lucario
Zelda/Sheik
Pit
Ice Climbers
Diddy Kong
Wolf
Peach
Fox
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Luigi
Lucas
Jigglypuff
Ness
Mario
Yoshi
Bowser
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer

All are too close to be separated by tiers. Some are easier to use than others, but they're relatively even. Jiggs is not bad. If you think she is, you haven't ever played a decent jiggs user.

Low:
Ike
Samus
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

This is self explanatory. they aren't very good.

I don't give a crud if you think I'm wrong or right. The fact that MK is broken and should be banned and isn't is enough to justify this character placement. Be sure make rude comments about my list. I'll be looking forward to them.
You should split mid tier into two different tiers. The ppl from Zamus to PT just aren't in the same tier as the ones in the upper half, so you should at least have an upper-mid/lower-mid seperation or something like that. Otherwise it looks accurate although i think DK and Kirby are a little too high.
 

Tenki

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You should split mid tier into two different tiers. The ppl from Zamus to PT just aren't in the same tier as the ones in the upper half, so you should at least have an upper-mid/lower-mid seperation or something like that. Otherwise it looks accurate although i think DK and Kirby are a little too high.
Part of the thing is that most people haven't fought people who are competent with those characters.

Personally, I think Pikachu should be in high tier, and I don't even main him. If you haven't seen a Pikachu that can harness QAC for all it's worth, you aren't taking into account what he could do in his 'metagame'.

Same with the other characters.
 

Nitrix

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I don't think that we should all try to tackle an entire tier-list at once. Ordering 30-something characters all at the same time is really tricky, so I tried to just make a high-tier list and concentrate on my choices.


MK
Snake
G&W
ROB
Falco



MK: Speed, priority, and a good recovery. He is unstoppable in the right hands.

Snake: Very strong, but his recovery is stopping him from getting the top spot. He also can get punished and chaingrabbed by the lighter chars. He might fall a few spots if everybody finds out how to abuse his weaknessess. But for now he remains a heavy, powerful character with cannot be ignored. Furthermore, he seems to counter MK.

G&W: A killing machine. He may be one of the lightest characters in the game, but it doesn't matter how heavy you are when your oponent is face down in the dirt. With disjointed hit-boxes, the nastiest turtle you've ever seen, edgeguarding bacon, and a projectile-absorbing bucket. This guy should be feared.

ROB: The classic camper. This guy has a 5-second recovery, a wicked aerial game, and 2 projectiles. When you add all of that together, you get is an edguarding demon who pwns you in the air and weighs as much as a hippo. However, this WALL-E has a tricky time killing people, so it stops him from reaching the top.

Falco: Lasers, speed, a reflector, and the meteor-smash everybody hates. Falco is a really nasty offensive beast who can punish people who aren't careful when the get back to the stage. His reflector can counter projectiles and hurt approaches while his laser lets him annoy at a distance. This bird has a nasty chink in his armour though, in the form of his recovery. To put it bluntly; it sucks.


Characters that might make it:

Diddy Kong
Pikachu
Dedede
Donkey Kong
Toon Link
Wario
 

Deathcarter

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Mr.Victory07

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I know! Samus actually has potential unlike the likes of Jigglypuff, CF, Ganondorf, and Link. She is in no way bottom tier, but she probably won't make it higher than mid-low. Her place is most likely above Ike, Bowser and Pokemon Trainer but below Ness, Peach, and Sonic.
Link and Jiggs have ptential. And i think Samus>Sonic
 

Greenstreet

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yer u have a way huge middle tier. but i spose if u truely believe that to b the case i dont care lol
i agree on the sonic<samus... maybe.. samus seems to have moves that r a little bit laggy and sonic can speed all over but i havent tested hu wins out with priority on attacks (altho we all kno sonic is notorious for losing such battles lol)
i'll check it out
 

Deathcarter

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Link and Jiggs have ptential.
You may have a point there. For Jigglypuff at least.

D: Peach; Sonic, Pikachu, Lucas, Ness, Zelda, Toon Link, Ike, Jigglypuff, Samus, Bowser, Pokémon Trainer, Luigi

Jigglypuff has the best tournament outings of the percieved bottom tiers (these are the non-detailed July 31 rankings) so she might make it into the bottom of low tier. She probably won't go higher though because of bad matchups.

And even if Sonic is worse than Samus overall matchup wise (I honestly have no idea), he currently has the tournament results to be placed above Samus.

yer u have a way huge middle tier. but i spose if u truely believe that to b the case i dont care lol
i agree on the sonic<samus... maybe.. samus seems to have moves that r a little bit laggy and sonic can speed all over but i havent tested hu wins out with priority on attacks (altho we all kno sonic is notorious for losing such battles lol)
i'll check it out
Sonic won't ever trade blows with opponents or even need to. As far as Sonic's ground game goes, I beleive grabs play the most important aspect of Sonic's ground game due to a quick rush-in > Shield grab aspect. And aerially speaking, Sonic's uair is a king among aerials. Priority for sonic is not a major problem for him. At least not as problematic as Captain Falcon's priority issue. Hopefully, you'll yield useful results.
 

ShadowLink84

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Along with a distinct lack of priority and KO potential.
sonics aerial priority>pikachu's priority yet I hear no one ever mentioning it do they?

Anyways Sonic has more priority than is actually thought and while he does have below average priority, he is not extremely hindered by it due to his speed.

As for killing yes sonic lacks killing power, but he can make up for t with his ability to rack up damage and gimp.

Last I saw Samus lacked speed and killing power.

Samus<Sonic
 
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