Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Snail]

I see. I misunderstood you then, I thought you were going to make a bottom tier consisting of 17 characters which would be stupid XD

Naw, characters with low tier potential usually don't perform well, but characters with great potential can perform crappy - just look at Toon Link.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Lol. Agreed

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

And a question because I can't find any about this... Does Marth have any ATs? (excluding Ken Combo or SH or Spiking if those count, and excluding that Pivot Down Smash thing)

As far as I know, Marth has no useful AT's to speak of. He is extremely straight-forward to use in that regard. The trick with him is learning what moves to use in which situations. Because his VIABLE moveset is so vast, thats actually much harder than it sounds.

 

[Swordplay]

Top:
Snake
Metaknight

High:
King Dedede
Falco
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
R.O.B.


Mid-High:
Olimar
Donkey Kong
Wario
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Pit
Wolf

Mid-Low:
Lucario
Fox
Toon Link
Luigi
Lucas
Zelda
Diddy Kong
Sheik
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby

Low:
Mario
Link
Ike
Sonic
Ness
Pokemon Trainer
Bowser
Peach

Bottom:
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Samus
Yoshi
Captain Falcon


This was my first attempt at a tier list and I put a good amount of thought into it as well.

I rated Iceclimbers and DK higher than most people have in the past for 2 reasons.

DK is a counter against the top tier so he should go higher due to match ups

Iceclimbers doesn't have the tournament ratings to support it but this character at the highest levels of play is one of the best characters in the game due to 0-death chaingrabs which WILL be used by good iceclimbers making them perhaps broken at high technical and skill levels of play. If you say don't get grabbed thats pretty near impossible to get not grabbed in a game at least once. It is like saying don't get hit by an snake f-tilt. When Iceclimber mains learn how to control their CG better they will shoot up in the tournament ratings I believe

I rated toonlink mid-low because of terrible tournament play.....check out ankoku's ratings list.

My tier list is not so much based on the tournament ratings as others but I looked more at potential than I did at tournament rankings and matchups

 

[Onomanic]

"Low:
Mario
Link"

Yay! But why did you rank him so high? Everyone else puts him at bottom.

 

[jiovanni007]

Mid-Low:
Lucario
Fox
Toon Link
Luigi
Lucas
Zelda
Diddy Kong
Sheik
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby

No, just no. People really need to stop this, its a bit ignorant at this point in time.

 

[Blackbelt]

No, just no. People really need to stop this, its a bit ignorant at this point in time.

Thank you for pointing it out.


Also, how the heck is Dedede above Falco and Game & Watch?


Or heck, how is Wario so low?

 

[MysticKenji]

Swordplay, you have Zelda on there twice.

 

[Deathcarter]

Tier list

Sorry dude, but Ice Climbers are at this point in mid-low. Snake's f-tilt has MUCH more range than the Ice Climber grab. The Ice Climbers have no good approach other than walking into the enemy's range and shielding attakcs. But the thing is, not only do the higher-ups have amazing spacing tools to stay out of grab range, but a lot of them have the moves to separate the Ice Climbers the most obvious examples being tornado and ROB D-smash.

Also any good tier list will drop ALL characters for poor tourney records. The Ice Climbers may have the potential, but we are analyzing the CURRENT Metagame. With **** tournament results and uphill matchups, the Ice Climbers can only be justified in being placed in mid low-Mid.

P.S. Props for putting Link higher. I trust that you either have seen that awesome "Linkaggedon" combo video or something equally as good or you main Link. If he produces better tournament results, he can totally be justified for that spot. Nice eye Blu Link.

 

[LangZeth]

Someone please prove that Diddy is the best player in brawl x) Cause he is =)

 

[Morrigan]

Someone please prove that Diddy is the best player in brawl x) Cause he is =)

Everyone change their tier lists.
Diddy Kong is now Top Tier.

 

[Dpete]

Diddy 4 hi tires!

Too bad he suffers from Toon Link syndrome. Tons of potential with not a whole lot to back it up

I'm curious why D3 is getting all this love. Sure, he's in the that elite Top 7 group of characters, but I think he's the bottom of the list. Though he has great tourny rankings, he has sub-par matchups. Anyone want to clarify this for me?

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Diddy 4 hi tires!

Too bad he suffers from Toon Link syndrome. Tons of potential with not a whole lot to back it up

I'm curious why D3 is getting all this love. Sure, he's in the that elite Top 7 group of characters, but I think he's the bottom of the list. Though he has great tourny rankings, he has sub-par matchups. Anyone want to clarify this for me?

OR maybe we really need to re-evalulate his matchups, because he seems to be placing TOO well, popularity or not, and have matchups that bad >_>.

 

[DanGR]

he's fine where he is. Near the top of high, just below top is fine.

 

[Swordplay]

No, just no. People really need to stop this, its a bit ignorant at this point in time.

Any kirby main will defend his position on where I place him. Perhaps he shouldn't be at the bottom of that list when I think about it more but I firmly believe he belongs in that tier

"Low:
Mario
Link"

Yay! But why did you rank him so high? Everyone else puts him at bottom.

Link is a very technical character. My list was based more on potential than tournament results. Link may not have very good AT's (a few of them are like DAC and his airdoge zair) (most of them are not and are just for mindgames: ZAC and bomb-smash) but he has ALOT of AT's and I feel once people get use to incorporating them all properly he will do slightly better

I use to feel the same way about toonlink but he has been going in the opposite direction for some reason. I don't feel like toonlink was every underplayed. people just gave up on him for some reason so I have to deal with that and rate by that.

Sorry dude, but Ice Climbers are at this point in mid-low. Snake's f-tilt has MUCH more range than the Ice Climber grab. The Ice Climbers have no good approach other than walking into the enemy's range and shielding attakcs. But the thing is, not only do the higher-ups have amazing spacing tools to stay out of grab range, but a lot of them have the moves to separate the Ice Climbers the most obvious examples being tornado and ROB D-smash.

Also any good tier list will drop ALL characters for poor tourney records. The Ice Climbers may have the potential, but we are analyzing the CURRENT Metagame. With **** tournament results and uphill matchups, the Ice Climbers can only be justified in being placed in mid low-Mid.

P.S. Props for putting Link higher. I trust that you either have seen that awesome "Linkaggedon" combo video or something equally as good or you main Link. If he produces better tournament results, he can totally be justified for that spot. Nice eye Blu Link.

I firmly believe he belongs in the mid-higher tier....maybe not all the way at the top where I put him...I might move him down a few spots.

I agree that top and high tiers are practically all counters to the IC's because of there ability to out space and separate them. That is why they are not candidate for top or high tier. ALMOST Every character below them though is vunerable to them because they are missing a good spacing game or b. have trouble separating them.

The Ice climbers also have a few good matchups in my opinion.
Q; why is DDD so high?
A: AWSOME CHAIN GRAB and a few other nice things.
Q: can you chain grab an ice climber (DDD FALCO LUCARIO)
A: No because the other iceclimber will hit you out of it.

Ice climbers have the potential to dominate everyone that is below them. They can no do a standing desynch at will and spam iceblocks and f-smash makin it hard to approach.

The ice-climber metagame is growing faster than any other character I have seen.
They have almost found a way around the Huston 3 grab rule limit by integrating an ice-block and a footstool for a true combo. If they are every able to chain grab and combo back into it...no chain grab limit rule will every hold them back from dominating the mid and lower tiers.

 

[Dpete]

OR maybe we really need to re-evalulate his matchups, because he seems to be placing TOO well, popularity or not, and have matchups that bad >_>.

I guess so. For some reason I always look at say, ROB and Marth, and they just look better on paper. Maybe it's because he's a giant penguin.

 

[Swordplay]

On a side note......who finds it sad that samus is better without her power suit than she is with it.

I DO

 

[Browny]

i think its quite simple. #1 tourney character snake, also happens to be the easiest character in the game for Dedede to repeatedly CG since you can grab him right out of his tilts if theyre shielded. snakes complete lack of an aerial approach only make it worse for him

 

[Grunt]

i think its quite simple. #1 tourney character snake, also happens to be the easiest character in the game for Dedede to repeatedly CG since you can grab him right out of his tilts if theyre shielded. snakes complete lack of an aerial approach only make it worse for him

so are we making Japanese tiers now?

 

[iMeeHow]

This is my first try at a tier list and it is Based on tournament rankings as well as what I know about each charachter.
Don't be surprised if I make a big mistake lol but feel free to comment about it.
I will leave comments for some charachter for reason why I placed them there.

Top Tier
Snake - Obvious
MK - Obvious

High Tier
GaW
Falco
Marth
King Dedede
ROB


Upper Mid-
Lucario - [Can be a good match-up against snake Because he can out range him and doesn't have 2 many bad match-ups]
Wario- I think wario is a amazing charachter and probaly should be High tier but im not to sure about it.
Donkey Kong - Great Range great smashes
Olimar - Great spacing and grab range, a good charachter but the recover is easily gimped.
Wolf - Seems to be placing pretty well in tournaments recently and a good character.
Fox - Great Usmash and Dair is a good combo starter and has a better recovery then falco and wolf.
Pit - Honestly I dont think pit is too good. Hes got the projectile and that stupid SideB but besides that hes not to good his smashes dont have really good and Knockback or good hit boxes same with his tilts.

Lower Mid
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Toon Link- Good projectiles and pretty good smash attacks.
Diddy
Zelda
Pikachu - Honestly i think pikachu is guna slowly get lower. You can DI from his Dsmash and Fsmash is easy to aviod but he is still good and i don't really know where to place him-
Luigi - Haven't seem to much of Luigi but seems like a good charachter
ZSS - I find her a good charachter but from the other lists she doesnt seem great
Lucas - Great Nair and Dair and great smashes but easily chain grabbed and recovery can be gimped
Ness
Ike

Low Tier
Peach
ZSS - I find her a good charachter but from the other lists she doesnt seem great
Sonic
Shiek - Great speed but lacks KOing ability
Mario - I think Mario probaly will move up soon ive seen some great mario player.
Ganon
Bowser
Link - Cant approach but good projectiles. He is to slow and isnt very strong and hasnt placed ina tourny for a while.
Pokemon Trainer

Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff
Yoshi - I don't wana see yoshi fan boys talking cheese lol. He hasnt placed in a tournament for a long time and just isn't to good.
Samus
Captian Falcon

I believe that is every1 please express your opinions

 

[Corigames]

I think Pit should be bottom tier, just below Falcon. Is that OK everyone?

 

[Grunt]

I think Pit should be bottom tier, just below Falcon. Is that OK everyone?

fine with me.

 

[samdaballer]

i think its quite simple. #1 tourney character snake, also happens to be the easiest character in the game for Dedede to repeatedly CG since you can grab him right out of his tilts if theyre shielded. snakes complete lack of an aerial approach only make it worse for him

exactly, the best snake counterpick imo, just be gay with the grabs

 

[Ilex]

TOP
Snake
Metaknight
Dedede

HIGH
ROB
Wario
G&W
Marth

MID
Pikachu
Donkey Kong
Wolf
Falco
Olimar
Lucario
Pit

LOW
Kirby
Fox
Ike
Diddy
Ice Climbers
Peach
Zelda
Luigi

BOTTOM
Toon Link
Sonic
ZSS
Ness
Lucas
Bowser
Mario
PT
Sheik
Ganondorf
Link
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Samus
Yoshi

 

[Yuna-Maria]

I think Pit should be bottom tier, just below Falcon. Is that OK everyone?

You're a riot, dude.

 

[Grunt]

What happened to your pink name and letters?

 

[Corigames]

He grew out of his 2008 ways :D

 

[Yuna-Maria]

She grew out of her 2008 ways :D

Fixed.
But yes. I no longer type in bright, extravagant colors. There's no need for such things.

 

[Corigames]

Pfft, there are no girls on the internet or girl gamers. True facts.

And don't change what I say >_> Even if I'm "wrong."

 

[Colbert]

I've probably rated more chars too high than too low.

Top
Snake
Metaknight
Mr. Game and Watch


High
Dedede
Falco
Marth
ROB
Zelda
Wario


Upper Mid
Donkey Kong
Toon Link
Olimar
Wolf
Kirby
Pikachu
Diddy Kong


Mid
Pit
Ice Climbers
Lucario
Luigi
Fox
Sheik


Lower Mid
Ness
Lucas
Pokemon Trainer
Ike


Low
Mario
Bowser
Peach
Samus
Link
Sonic
Jigglypuff


Bottom
Ganondorf
Yoshi
Captain Falcon

 

[penguinman]

you forgot zamus >_>

 

[ThaRoy]

My god...apparently none of you have ever fought a good Zero...She's the only character in the game who can legit combo...SHE CAN STUN YOU! She starts off with three beast projectiles...

Zero is wicked good...I am trying to learn her but god. She is top tier for sure.

 

[Corigames]

No.

I played a great Zero, but, you see, I know I have an R button and was able to tech the Up B when it hit me and was able to airdodge the Up smash, Forward B, and lazer blasts. Plus, she had to deal with my excessive arrows and found that to be a horrendous task as well as finding an opening for the armor pieces at the beginning, because most of them got reflected back!

She's good, but not great. She's mid.

 

[ThaRoy]

Eh, mid is at least better then where she is getting placed now!

 

[Adapt]

No.

I played a great Zero, but, you see, I know I have an R button and was able to tech the Up B when it hit me and was able to airdodge the Up smash, Forward B, and lazer blasts. Plus, she had to deal with my excessive arrows and found that to be a horrendous task as well as finding an opening for the armor pieces at the beginning, because most of them got reflected back!

She's good, but not great. She's mid.

Pit doesn't count... he's a ZSS counter along with Lucario and maybe MK and the ICs
nevertheless I agree that she is a solid mid-tier character.

who did you play btw?

 

[Yuna-Maria]

I've probably rated more chars too high than too low.

Samus is too high.
I'm telling you people, Samus is the worst character in the game.

 

[Corigames]

1. Isn't ironic that I'm playing her counter >_> Sure, whatever.

2. Like you would know him. He's a good local player and you live in Canada.

Samus is too high.
I'm telling you people, Samus is the worst character in the game.

No, Pit is. I'm telling you, he's crap :D

 

[Adapt]

1. Isn't ironic that I'm playing her counter >_> Sure, whatever.

2. Like you would know him. He's a good local player and you live in Canada.

1. ZSS match-ups: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176928

We list pit as a counter... don't assume I made that up for the sake of my argument.

2. I was wondering if he was on smashboards or something. If he's not then no I wouldn't know who it was. If he was on smashboards or had some vids online then I might have seen them.

 

[ThaRoy]

My beef against the whole shield argument against Zero is simple. She spaces very well, so you shield a lot when slightly out of range. However, shield blocks her Side-B...but it does not block her grab. So yeah...it will destroy you. So yeah...Zero is just a beast. I think she's on the higher end of mid tier.

 

[Corigames]

No, he use to play melee as Samus and moved to Brawl with her. Then I think he ended up liking Zero more. Anyway, the only videos he's probably in is if they recorded anything for AZ One Two Step. Check there.

He does have an account though. I feel Asleep, I think.