Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Cheezball]

Yoshi comes up higher on the tier list than he was before. I play as Yoshi, and he looks deserving for middle tier. Ganondorf, I played as him before, and he looks deserving of lower tier. Not bottom, but in between mid and bottom. I played pretty well as him, but then, I lost my feeling of wanting to play as him.

 

[da K.I.D.]

when it comes to ganon, we all have to realise that even though his recovery isnt all that great, when are you ever going to need it. dude is a tank in every sence of the word. you can play one on one with metaknight in a match where he flat out ***** you for a full minute. you turn around and hit him with 5 moves and all of a sudden youre both at the same damage. dude gets to 150 damage b4 you can even knock him off the stage and have a chance to gimp his recovery.

Also, tiers are not really relative. they have been defined. so unless its a total counter pick like sonic v. luigi (sonic main speaking here) so based on the definition of the different tiers and the new supposed balence, the only ones that are really viable are high-mid tier, mid tier, and lower-mid tier because having high tiers means that it takes an immeasurable amount of effort for the captain to beat a marth or ROB and thats not nessarily true. its hard , yes, but it not as hard to beat ROB with CF as it should be to beat a high tier with a low tier

 

[Olaf]

his downB doesn't give him an extra jump, but due to overall floatiness he doesn't need it, and it would make his recovery broken...everything else that you said is completely wrong.

uhhh...what?
the overall floatiness does not replace gis gimped recovery. i admit, im comparing it to melee, but things that would i could have landed on the platform from in melee ar now impossible to recover from due to the lack of extra jump.

and wrong? no. his up+B has less horizontal distance, and (i believe) slightly increased vertical distance.
forward b is now usable. thats about it.

in total, he lost horizontal recovery. in total.

 

[BDawgPHD]

when it comes to ganon, we all have to realise that even though his recovery isnt all that great, when are you ever going to need it. dude is a tank in every sence of the word. you can play one on one with metaknight in a match where he flat out ***** you for a full minute. you turn around and hit him with 5 moves and all of a sudden youre both at the same damage. dude gets to 150 damage b4 you can even knock him off the stage and have a chance to gimp his recovery.

Also, tiers are not really relative. they have been defined. so unless its a total counter pick like sonic v. luigi (sonic main speaking here) so based on the definition of the different tiers and the new supposed balence, the only ones that are really viable are high-mid tier, mid tier, and lower-mid tier because having high tiers means that it takes an immeasurable amount of effort for the captain to beat a marth or ROB and thats not nessarily true. its hard , yes, but it not as hard to beat ROB with CF as it should be to beat a high tier with a low tier

speaking from the perspective of a Meta Knight player, i doubt Ganondorf could put more than two consecutive moves on MK, whereas MK can generally have a field day on Ganondorf, as long as he doesn't suck. I was just saying that Ganondorf's recovery got better, especially considering that he's still heavy, gimping isn't as prevalent, and everyone is floatier including him. His recovery distance didn't diminish in any way, unless you count not having the ability to downB to recover jumps, which is compensated by the floatiness.

 

[IsmashedYOURmom]

I'm sorry, but I can't see myself ever counting snake as a God Tier. The reason behind that is because he's a complexed character, and from what I understand he's a tad bit on the slow side. Not slow like bowser, but not faster than mario, ya feel me? I actually feel for Lucas more so than Snake, but that's just me.

I'm stickin with my Top Tier of Marth, Metaknight, Olimar, Toon Link, Wolf, and Pit.

 

[sweetooth]

Tiers show ease of use and how easy it is to bring out winning potential.

thats not it at all. so you are saying that fox was the easiest char to use in melee? entirely incorrect. it's all about tournaments...

 

[Gindler]

Yep, people aren't giving yoshi enough credit. I guess no one even tried playing with him in melee so why start now?

Well for one, yoshi's aerials are insane. Bair the first tail wag will cancel an attack then the other 3 will hit (from my experience anyway). All of his special attacks were majorly improved (better knockback except for egg throw, speed, and the egg throw is now a little bit of a recovery). and thanks to no double jump cancel which yoshi's the only one it's really visible with he's an edge guarding monster!

All in all, I'd say in the right hands yoshi can hold is own with even the masters of High tier characters.

 

[pass the syrup]

Diddy's banana combos are insane as is his air game. I can't wait to see how he does tournament wise.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Yep, people aren't giving yoshi enough credit. I guess no one even tried playing with him in melee so why start now?

Well for one, yoshi's aerials are insane. Bair the first tail wag will cancel an attack then the other 3 will hit (from my experience anyway). All of his special attacks were majorly improved (better knockback except for egg throw, speed, and the egg throw is now a little bit of a recovery). and thanks to no double jump cancel which yoshi's the only one it's really visible with he's an edge guarding monster!

All in all, I'd say in the right hands yoshi can hold is own with even the masters of High tier characters.

Its funny, I have no problem abusing characters like Marth and Metaknight in the air with Yoshi, and they are supposedly high tier.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

it isn't worth making a tier list.

snake is in this game and he is the only playable character.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Snake is definitely top tier.

But his glaring weakness is his air game.

Very laggy and not too great for the most part although is Bair and Uair are crazy.

 

[Evilpenguin]

Snake isn't as good as everyone makes him out to be. constant pursuit will prevent him from being able to do anything with his explosives, leaving him very few moves. Flame me if you want, but I'm trying to be realistic.

 

[SaJaNG]

Snake isn't as good as everyone makes him out to be. constant pursuit will prevent him from being able to do anything with his explosives, leaving him very few moves. Flame me if you want, but I'm trying to be realistic.

i completely agree with this guy....

 

[BDawgPHD]

it isn't worth making a tier list.

snake is in this game and he is the only playable character.

cmon man, seeing your epic meta knight made me realize that I seriously need to go buy a wii with my life savings like immediately before i explode and ooze gimpy juice everywhere =/

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Snake beats Metaknight in the match-up.

He is too strong.

How do you kill with an U-tilt at 80%?

**** makes me sad.

Also Marth denies Snake.

HE DENIES HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, metaknight dies easy, what's new? He's still faster than snake, has more range, more priority, can gimp him like a mother, destroys snake in the air, can use his mobility to work around snake's zoning, etc etc etc. I think it's only fair snake can kill metaknight at that percentage. Metaknight is SO MUCH BETTER THAN SNAKE IN ACTUAL FIGHTING. If meta isn't ******** and running into grenades and traps and actually keeps heavy pressure on snake, he's gonna win this fight. I've played this matchup a lot vs. a good snake. I've seen psycho ****** play snake. I've seen gimpy play metaknight. I can honestly say gimpy messed up hardcore in that matchup. He wasn't nearly agressive enough and didn't put the pressure on when he needed to, or when he got his openings. It was almost like he was scared of snake. Metaknight must be fearless and aggressive. So what if you're gonna die if you get hit, no one's going to beat you out with anything.

Metaknight: Actually impossible to fight in the air. Rediculous range and priority, best chaser in the game. Down Smash has 0 lag and kills really easily. All the hate thrown on his lack of killing moves is due to a lack of experience with the character. Might even oust Marth on my list soon. And insanely fast.

I agree with this. He's got really good killing power but all of his moves have specific application. He can also chase really well, and down smash KOs at low 100's, forward smash does as well, and so does up B. Even if he can't kill them flat out, he can easily chase them off the screen and gimp their recovery. Not to mention his nair spikes people off the stage when they're trying to ledge hog or just hanging near the edge. People need to learn to play the character before they say he can't kill. Every single person I've played has contested that notion.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Yep, people aren't giving yoshi enough credit. I guess no one even tried playing with him in melee so why start now?

Well for one, yoshi's aerials are insane. Bair the first tail wag will cancel an attack then the other 3 will hit (from my experience anyway). All of his special attacks were majorly improved (better knockback except for egg throw, speed, and the egg throw is now a little bit of a recovery). and thanks to no double jump cancel which yoshi's the only one it's really visible with he's an edge guarding monster!

All in all, I'd say in the right hands yoshi can hold is own with even the masters of High tier characters.

Its funny, I have no problem abusing characters like Marth and Metaknight in the air with Yoshi, and they are supposedly high tier.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

if you seriously think that metaknight has the ADVANTAGE vs snake you are delusional, and that is not my complaint with snake anyways.

But killing at 80% vs killing at 180%?

not hard to figure out.

'move spamming' with metaknight isn't effective at a higher level of gameplay.

 

[Evilpenguin]

Meta's dsmash and usmash kill much lower than 180.

 

[AthrunZala]

top tier - (in no order)
olimar
marth
pit
toon link
diddy
falco
pikachu

thats just going to be my guesses... i could be way off but ehh who knows.

 

[Loops]

I'm sorry, but I can't see myself ever counting snake as a God Tier. The reason behind that is because he's a complexed character, and from what I understand he's a tad bit on the slow side. Not slow like bowser, but not faster than mario, ya feel me? I actually feel for Lucas more so than Snake, but that's just me.

I'm stickin with my Top Tier of Marth, Metaknight, Olimar, Toon Link, Wolf, and Pit.

i agree with this completely, sorry for posting from back.

 

[Deleted member]

it isn't worth making a tier list.

snake is in this game and he is the only playable character.

 

[The Mediator]

if you seriously think that metaknight has the ADVANTAGE vs snake you are delusional, and that is not my complaint with snake anyways.

But killing at 80% vs killing at 180%?

not hard to figure out.

'move spamming' with metaknight isn't effective at a higher level of gameplay.

... If we're talking kills at low percentages, then Ike and Dedede should be toptoptoptop tier.
40% kills? Yump.

However, I don't think that either Ike OR Dedede should be top tier. Maybe high tier, but not top tier.

... Probably in the same place with Snake.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Anyone who can't see Snake is top tier, doesn't understand what makes a character top tier.

Also Snake can kill you with a d-tilt, f-tilt, or u-tilt.

The range on all of these moves rivals Marth's range.

And I think he has super armor on his d-tilt.

Ike?

Ike won't consistently kill with an F-smash.

Please get real people.

Snake has the tools to be top tier.

Accept it.

He isn't god tier, no. Gimpy is overexaggerating, but Snake is really really good.

And yeah Snake has advantage on Metaknight.

Not horrible advantage, but 60/40 seems pretty accurate.

 

[SuicideSquirril]

I don't own brawl, but i have played every character in at least 10 matches at my friends house, and from what i have played so far, toon link seem like my new main, i don't like marth to much anymore, but i still have yet to own the game, so i may be wrong, mabey they change depending on how much effort you put into them. Just like to add, i think most tiers are kinda stupid, i think each character can be equal in game strength, some are just easier to get better at than others, and some have slightly less obvious weaknesses

 

[Nobie]

I think the reason why Yoshi places low on these lists isn't that he's a bad character so much as he's not overwhelmingly good in any particular category.

Yoshi has good range, fast attacks, has good priority on a number of moves, is fairly heavy, and decent KO power.

It's sort of a case where he's good at a number of things, but everyone else is better.

 

[SuicideSquirril]

I also think that DeDeDe, Diddy Kong, Olimar, Meta Kinght, Pit, Ike, PT, and Samus all have something going for them, possibly more.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Marth, Olimar, Snake, Metaknight, DeDeDe, Diddy, Lucas, and Pit are all top tier.

 

[dieslow]

snake is really good, but gimpy is exaggerating. G&W is up there as well, very strong smashes and air game.

top tiers to me seem to be: snake, g&w, marth, meta

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

if you seriously think that metaknight has the ADVANTAGE vs snake you are delusional, and that is not my complaint with snake anyways.

But killing at 80% vs killing at 180%?

not hard to figure out.

'move spamming' with metaknight isn't effective at a higher level of gameplay.

Well ok man first off, I never said spam moves, you can be smart with it. But when I watched your matches in the finals with psycho, you seemed to hold back a lot. I know there's a lot of stuff to look out for, but if snake isn't set up, what do you have to be afraid of? Your pokes are better than his. And you can DEFINITELY kill him earlier than 180%. You were approaching the match really slowly and not really following up combos all that much, and sorta hanging back. That's gonna give snake the advantage because random hit for you means a lot less than a random hit from snake. I think if you had controlled him better, kept him in the air where you dominate more, and been a little more aggressive,, you could have had the match.

Plus I mean, you act like he totally creamed you. It came down to the last match and either of you could have won. I know it probably sucks being knocked off the top after being king for a while, but just come back at it, play better, make less mistakes.

It's not that bad of a matchup.

Also not getting above snake where like his best kill moves hit is probably a good idea since metaknight dies so easy to upwards KOs. If you get stuck up there, air dodge, do something, just gtfo somehow.

 

[ToP CaT]

top
r.o.b, snake, marth, dedede,toon
high
lucas, ike, g&W, pit, diddy,olimar,zelda,pika
med/high
zss, samus, peach, lucario, luigi,kirby
med
mario,pkmn trainer, sonic, ness

 

[balzin]

I'm not going to claim to be a great player, but I have owned and played the game since the day it was released so take these predictions with a grain of salt. Anyway here is my take on a few of my preferred characters.

Jigglypuff: I know she has basically been nerfed a bit since Melee, but I still feel as if she is undervalued and that she has strong matchups against the rest of the high and top tiers.

Luigi: Reasonably fast, good KO moves, a good final smash, and a balanced air and ground game make him significantly better than he was last time around, and a general improvement over mario, who is still middle of the pack.

Diddy Kong: I keep seeing tier lists with diddy at rock bottom and I can't help but wonder what people are thinking. His air game is great, he has a solid recovery and some nice spikes, a good projectile, and he has amazing combo potential with his bananas (among other things). To top it all off, he is one of the few light characters with massive KO potential.

Wolf: I can't help but think wolf is overrated. Good? totally. The best? No way. I see so many people talking about wolf as if he is imba and number 1. Frankly, brawl is very balanced, and there are alot of other top tier characters who can stomp wolf into the ground. That being said, his fsmash is EASILY the best in the game, he has great air combos, and his laser is a good projectile. His recovery is mediocre, but everything else is pretty solid.

Young Link: My pick for the current #1 spot. Best dair in the game, decent kill potential, great projectiles, fast as can be, good range, good recoveries, amazing combos, he pretty much has it all. The only chars I've had trouble with when playing ylink are G&W and metaknight, but I imagine a good dedede would give me problems too.


Marth: Basically the same as melee. Some points are better, some points are worse. Most marths I've played against in RL are button mashers, so I would imagine that he will attract more of the same this time around, but he is far more powerful in the hands of someone skilled.

Ike: The new favorite of people who wish slow powerful characters could be worth a ****. Poor them. That being said, he is a blast to play as a "messing around" type character.

Olimar and Pikman: I've had alot of fun with Olimar. He has great smashes, great projectiles, and alot of variety and fun. His recovery is about the worst in the game, and his complexities are numerous, but I predict that as he is picked up and learned by more and more top players, he could become a major presence in the competitive scene.

Sonic: Brutally fast movement and some fun combo potential. For me, his "roll into a ball" attacks are annoying to play, but I'm guessing he will get picked up by alot of people looking for speed.

Kirby: Wow, talk about a change. Kirby is faster, more powerful, and more versatile. Fun to play as, and he has alot of potential, but I don't see him any farther up than lowish high tier.

Snake: My pick for best final smash in the game, and he has a pretty cool style of play. Very stealthy and technical. Also requires a big attention span, what with all the mines and whatnot. Could be great, could be passed over and forgotten for competitive play. Either way, he has the possibility of becoming a tourny staple.

Pikachu: First off, let me say I don't play pikachu, but I play against them in my smash groups all the time. The brawl pikachu is terribly annoying, and its tower of lightning is horribly, horribly annoying, especially when playing a heavily aerial character. Faster this time around, and with great recoveries. Could be decent tier wise.

Anyway, those are my current assessments. I'm sure these are nearly all wrong, but hey, I had fun testing the chars out and posing my results, so, hey

 

[The Mediator]

Anyone who can't see Snake is top tier, doesn't understand what makes a character top tier.

Also Snake can kill you with a d-tilt, f-tilt, or u-tilt.

The range on all of these moves rivals Marth's range.

And I think he has super armor on his d-tilt.

Ike?

Ike won't consistently kill with an F-smash.

Please get real people.

Snake has the tools to be top tier.

Accept it.

He isn't god tier, no. Gimpy is overexaggerating, but Snake is really really good.

And yeah Snake has advantage on Metaknight.

Not horrible advantage, but 60/40 seems pretty accurate.

I agree with you that Snake is good.

But...................


Did you just say that Snake is stronger than Ike?!?
...
...
...
...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! You're a riot...

Ya, Ike has SAF on like... more stuff than... everybody? Yes, that sounds about right.

I will agree with you that Snake has potential to be top tier. But he is most definitely NOT stronger than Ike. This isn't a matter of pride on my part--this is a matter of FACT.

 

[LoOshKiN]

Did you just say that Snake is stronger than Ike?!?

actually, He didn't say that Snake is stronger than Ike. Snake can run all over Ike, and when Ike tries to follow he'll probably step on a landmine. Snake isn't that fast but lets be realistic: when someone gets knocked back and a ton of space gets opened up then Snake can set up his camp/booby traps.

And Snake has the strong, quick tilts to back up his CQC.

And his aeriels, though slow, have a good amount of range (Bair ftw)

Snake's metagame > Ike's metagame

 

[Metzger]

Snake's almost playing with loaded dice. The character pretty much has one weakness, and god bless you on your journey to exploit it, for it shall be filled with explosives and fists.

Anyway, I'm personally of the mind that "top tier" is not going to be as crowded as people think. I would not be surprised if it wound up just being Snake and Olimar.

I don't really care who winds up being "top" or "high" tier, though. I just hope someone steps forward and clowns a bunch of people with Yoshi so he crawls up out of the tier ghetto.

Oh, and maybe this time around we can just set Marth aside and give him his own tier. Call it "metro" tier or something, that way we don't have to deal with him.

 

[Bocks]

snakes fsmash > Ikes fsmash, get over it, snakes AAA > ikes AAA, snakes Uair > Ikes Uair, snakes Bair > Ikes Bair, snakes B Button >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ikes B button snakes tilts > Ikes tilts

Ikes fair > snakes fair, Ikes Usmash > snakes usmash

oh ya and lol@ Top Cat with no spacies in mid to high teir

 

[Nightmare KoRn Kid]

Waluigi is top tier.

Wait whose a what trophy?

God **** it.

It's too soon to make an effective tier list, the games true potential has yet to be unlocked!

That being said, Waluigi for top tier.

 

[Nightmare KoRn Kid]

and if Neo ever reads this

ROY IS TOP TIER

LOL **** YOUR CHARACTER NEO

 

[Emblem Lord]

No.

No I did not say Snake was stronger.

But his f-smash does kill sooner.

Actually overall he is stronger. Snake has more viable options that will hit so he ends up doing more damage and tends to rack up damage very quickly

So as far competitive play is concerned Snake is the stongest.

His f-tilt combo does 21% for crying out loud.

And yeah, Snake's meta > Ike's meta.

 

[kciD]

So...is there any sort of "official" or "semi-official" or even remotely "official" tier list created? Or are we defending the characters we like right this now (or creating our own tier list) for a future "official" tier list?

 

[Nasty_Nate]

official tier list is on page 52
And by official I mean the only list that makes sense