My friend loved that yoshi was considered low tier in Melee, because he would come out of nowhere and just **** people because no one knew how to play against a good yoshi.
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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
- Status
FredTHAreD
Smash Cadet
Well, I have yet to go over all the characters as much as I like, but heres my review on the ones I frequently use.
Sonic-I'm trying to main this blasted hedgehod, as I see a lot of potential in his moves, mainly the comboing potential of his rolls, and jumping up to get your opponents in arial combos. This strategy is lacking against characters like Kirby, and Pit, who can fly, but for every one else, its a good way to build up dmg to get them in KO range. That range however, doesn't really start until around 90-100%. Also, some of his moves are a bit wild, like his dair, which if you dont use properly, will send you plummeting off the stage. Overall, I see potential, but hes realisticly only a mid tier in no item games, since his Final Smash is his main KO threat.
Kirby-The main reason I didn't like melee, was Kirby sucked ***. He's gotten a major makeover however, giving him his KO potential back to his move set. He's also faster, making for an all around better Kirby experience. The fact that his Final Smash gives you some items afterwards isn't bad either. I don't think too many people will invest much time into Kirby however, which is why I place him in a Mid tier as well.
Link-Well, he fails in comparison to Toon Link, who is almost 100% than Link. His boomerang is useful on the way back, as it pulls opponents closer, and with some practice can be used to deliver a devastating hit with Links fsmash. He also retains his three his usmash, which Toon Link does not. Probably just a lower tier, but hes an old favorite of mine.
Diddy Kong-His bannanas are what makes him. Without proper use of them, hes just a semi quick character, with a good KO ability. Actually using the bannanas properly however, can give you free openings on your opponent, and allow you to spend less or more time in your defensive game, depending on how you prefer to play. His final smash is also entertaining. With proper use of his potential, I believe hes capable of High tier, if not top.
Ice Climbers-Well, their B-moves are almost worthless, with the exception of their forward b, but that counts as your triple jump, so use it wisely. The real appeal of the Ice Climbers are the fact that there is two of them, obviously. While charging for a smash attack, if your opponent attacks you, sometimes it will only hit the first climber, allowing the second one finish the attack, and deliver a counter attack of sorts. Being grabbed will aslo have the same effect, and in some cases, they will even grab the wrong climber, leaving them wide open for a serious blow. They have potential, but I think they've been toned down from Melee. Another mid tier.
Pokemon Trainer-This guy has potential for top tier, I know it. Three different movesets accounting for three different styles of play, and a character swtich that can easily be used to dodge(though it also leaves you open after the initial dodge), complete mastery of this character could prove to be devastating. High or top tier potential.
Sonic-I'm trying to main this blasted hedgehod, as I see a lot of potential in his moves, mainly the comboing potential of his rolls, and jumping up to get your opponents in arial combos. This strategy is lacking against characters like Kirby, and Pit, who can fly, but for every one else, its a good way to build up dmg to get them in KO range. That range however, doesn't really start until around 90-100%. Also, some of his moves are a bit wild, like his dair, which if you dont use properly, will send you plummeting off the stage. Overall, I see potential, but hes realisticly only a mid tier in no item games, since his Final Smash is his main KO threat.
Kirby-The main reason I didn't like melee, was Kirby sucked ***. He's gotten a major makeover however, giving him his KO potential back to his move set. He's also faster, making for an all around better Kirby experience. The fact that his Final Smash gives you some items afterwards isn't bad either. I don't think too many people will invest much time into Kirby however, which is why I place him in a Mid tier as well.
Link-Well, he fails in comparison to Toon Link, who is almost 100% than Link. His boomerang is useful on the way back, as it pulls opponents closer, and with some practice can be used to deliver a devastating hit with Links fsmash. He also retains his three his usmash, which Toon Link does not. Probably just a lower tier, but hes an old favorite of mine.
Diddy Kong-His bannanas are what makes him. Without proper use of them, hes just a semi quick character, with a good KO ability. Actually using the bannanas properly however, can give you free openings on your opponent, and allow you to spend less or more time in your defensive game, depending on how you prefer to play. His final smash is also entertaining. With proper use of his potential, I believe hes capable of High tier, if not top.
Ice Climbers-Well, their B-moves are almost worthless, with the exception of their forward b, but that counts as your triple jump, so use it wisely. The real appeal of the Ice Climbers are the fact that there is two of them, obviously. While charging for a smash attack, if your opponent attacks you, sometimes it will only hit the first climber, allowing the second one finish the attack, and deliver a counter attack of sorts. Being grabbed will aslo have the same effect, and in some cases, they will even grab the wrong climber, leaving them wide open for a serious blow. They have potential, but I think they've been toned down from Melee. Another mid tier.
Pokemon Trainer-This guy has potential for top tier, I know it. Three different movesets accounting for three different styles of play, and a character swtich that can easily be used to dodge(though it also leaves you open after the initial dodge), complete mastery of this character could prove to be devastating. High or top tier potential.
I.T.P
Smash Ace
FredThaRed, you seriously need to click on my youtube profile in my sig, and watch some void ICs videos, starting with "Snowstorm" and "Into the void" and then matches.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Ya think?
You do realize that "With a grain of salt" essentially means "Don't believe it", do you?
I.T.P
Smash Ace
ummm,no, not really.
It's more on the lines of "this is my opinion, or my conclusions, and not sheer facts"
I'm pretty sure that's what he meants anyway.
Resident_Smash_Genius
Smash Journeyman
The best characters seem to be Wolf, Falco, Pit, Marth and Lucas. Wolf and Falco are basically better versions of Fox, Pit is insane good, Marth's forward smash is definitely more powerful than it was in the last game, and Lucas' aerial attacks are godly.
Well, I've never played against a good snake before.
Metaknight kills at around 110, maybe 150 if it's not going well, 180 if you're just being careful/silly/forgot to check the damage meter recently, and 90 if you're gay enough.
meh.
Move spammin is for *****es :-P
but yea, don't get hit. isn't that like step 1 of being pro? you can't die at 80% if you don't get hit.
....i love you man
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
In my opinion, Nate's tier list (page 52) is the only one that makes any sense, and most likely the closest thing we're going to get until the SBR forms an official list.
speaking of which : http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/51961/95f14879/niet_met_mij.html
LOLZ. Anyways, i think we in general dont understand what wins games in brawl just yet. I agree with waiting for the backroom to come out with a tier listing.
LOLZ. Anyways, i think we in general dont understand what wins games in brawl just yet. I agree with waiting for the backroom to come out with a tier listing.
I.T.P
Smash Ace
you mean this?
how is this better than my list or the Japanese list? some placements here are extremely peculiar(sonic and lucario worse than jiggs,DK and yoshi???) a lot of characters are stated as "Missing info", there're only 3 tiers, and it isn't specified whether they're ordered according to placement or placement inside tiers are random. it seems to be random to me.
I think both mine and the Japanese List, which are well ordered, and were assembled from quite a lot of data and scouting, are the best ones out there right now, though we can't know what the SBR's list will look like right now.
TheMagicalKuja
Smash Champion
With that logic, low tier victories are going to start being so much more epic at this rate.
Put Sonic at the ver bottom for all I care, that makes his pwns that much more epic (I saw him bair a Lucas below the stage... best pwn I've ever seen :'D)
actually, quick characters that are good at edgeguarding probably have a very easy time stage spiking....like metaknight
balzin
Smash Rookie
http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/e21.html
It means with reservations or skepticism, so no, it does not "essentially" mean "Don't believe it."
Anyways, I'm going to have to agree that Metaknight has a terrible matchup against snake. Meta is pretty overrated in my experience because he really has no good kill moves. Quick attacks? For sure, but that does not matter if you can't do anything until 140%.
Seriously, stop being a dumb ***.
In fact, from this point on, anyone who thinks Meta Knight can't kill people should PM me their brawl fc, that way when I get to a wii, be it my own or a friend's, I can own you with meta knight
and don't worry, I'll get some low % kills 
I.T.P
Smash Ace
Seriously, stop being a dumb ***.
In fact, from this point on, anyone who thinks Meta Knight can't kill people should PM me their brawl fc, that way when I get to a wii, be it my own or a friend's, I can own you with meta knight
actually the man is right, I've played some meta knight myself, and aside from chasing combos and chasing edge guards, nothing he has kills at below 120%, and that's if you don't DI properly, with good DI he'll only kill at 150+. if he spammed his kill moves than maybe even higher than that.
I'm not saying that makes him a bad character, but he does rely heavily on chasing edge guards, while Pit and Diddy both have some high knockback moves that he lacks.
he is much better than them as far as range and priority goes, and he's got fearsome aerial abuses. and thats what makes him what he is, but don't go around saying he can kill at low %s, cause that's a blatant lie.
BC-Chris
Smash Journeyman
wow tirkaro is funny
balzin
Smash Rookie
Nice to see you are able to engage in an intelligent conversation. Name one kill move meta has that can kill anyone decent below 130%.Seriously, stop being a dumb ***.
In fact, from this point on, anyone who thinks Meta Knight can't kill people should PM me their brawl fc, that way when I get to a wii, be it my own or a friend's, I can own you with meta knight
well, if you're under the stage and I upB you, you'll get stage spiked at, like, 50%
But yea, to be fair (to I.T.P., who actually knows what he's talking about, unlike balzin), I guess I'm thinking that it's not hard for meta knight to kill in general. Sure, he doesn't have one hit killers like Ike, and his best kill move kills at high percentages against people with good DI. and seeing as how I don't own the game, I don't know how easy DI is, although it can't be that easy if you get dsmashed, considering how quick it is....bowser's fsmash is easy to DI because you usually see it coming, but that dsmash is quick...but assuming you can DI it, it probably kills ridiculously high.
So I'll refine my statement: Anyone who has trouble killing with meta knight is a scrub.
He doesn't have great kill moves, and taking into account DI and move degradation, it can be much worse. But he's good at chasing off the stage, putting pressure on, and stringing combos to kills. And with priority and speed to hit for good combos and then flee, what does it matter what percentage he kills at? But it's good that he can kill around low 100, low 200 at worst. I'll take those odds.
On that note, I know restoring degraded moves requires you to actually hit people. Does degrading moves in the first place require you to hit people?
I.T.P
Smash Ace
I haven't tested it deeply enough or looked at test results from people like panda, but at least for me the best way to deal with move decay is to spam moves that are supposed to combo, that way their lower knockback actually makes it easier to combo with them, and leave out 1-3 big killers and only use them at higher percentages.well, if you're under the stage and I upB you, you'll get stage spiked at, like, 50%
But yea, to be fair (to I.T.P., who actually knows what he's talking about, unlike balzin), I guess I'm thinking that it's not hard for meta knight to kill in general. Sure, he doesn't have one hit killers like Ike, and his best kill move kills at high percentages against people with good DI. and seeing as how I don't own the game, I don't know how easy DI is, although it can't be that easy if you get dsmashed, considering how quick it is....bowser's fsmash is easy to DI because you usually see it coming, but that dsmash is quick...but assuming you can DI it, it probably kills ridiculously high.
So I'll refine my statement: Anyone who has trouble killing with meta knight is a scrub.
He doesn't have great kill moves, and taking into account DI and move degradation, it can be much worse. But he's good at chasing off the stage, putting pressure on, and stringing combos to kills. And with priority and speed to hit for good combos and then flee, what does it matter what percentage he kills at? But it's good that he can kill around low 100, low 200 at worst. I'll take those odds.
On that note, I know restoring degraded moves requires you to actually hit people. Does degrading moves in the first place require you to hit people?
as far as I know, move decay only zeroes out when you die, but I might be really wrong here, so correct me if I am...
At least you admit your inappropriatly phrased post Bdawg, you got some points in my book for doing that, but you should still refrain from taunting other board members without a purpose to it. meta knight's combos do require skill and practice, they're not automatic win or kill, even if you know the basis.
but he does have a huge potential to be one of the biggest bulldogs in the game, I'll give you that.
k4polo
Smash Journeyman
Well an expert Metaknight player can gets your percentage up very fast and kill you rather quickly. HE can per say kill you if you are on the stage to well but once you are off the stage he is very hard to defend. against.
Plus he can drag you upwards as well. Metaknight main means of KOing seems to be drive the left or drive them up wards and possibly Up B. They expert though probbaly do crazy stuff to kill though.
Plus he can drag you upwards as well. Metaknight main means of KOing seems to be drive the left or drive them up wards and possibly Up B. They expert though probbaly do crazy stuff to kill though
.
S
sn1per13
Guest
Now that Brawl's out in the U.S. do we have an official tier list? If we don't where is Ike (I'm guessing around middle to low).
Pubik Vengeance
Smash Journeyman
Okay keep in mind I haven't read that many posts on here, but I have read a few, but this is my tier list as of now, and I'll just do top few.
1. Pit
2. Meta Knight
3. Toon Link
4. Marth
5. Wolf
6. Olimar
7. Ike
8. Snake
9. Diddy
10. Dedede
11. ROB
12. Sonic
I realize a lot of people will disagree with that, and to be honest, I haven't given it too much thought, so if I worked on it more, I might end up disagreeing with it, but it doesn't seem TOO farfetched.
1. Pit
2. Meta Knight
3. Toon Link
4. Marth
5. Wolf
6. Olimar
7. Ike
8. Snake
9. Diddy
10. Dedede
11. ROB
12. Sonic
I realize a lot of people will disagree with that, and to be honest, I haven't given it too much thought, so if I worked on it more, I might end up disagreeing with it, but it doesn't seem TOO farfetched.
Evilpenguin
Smash Cadet
Anyone who says meta can't kill below 120 is ********. Ever hear of edgeguarding, people? Between his jumping ability and his aerials, you can prevent them from ever getting back to the stage. I have seen metas edgeguard successfully as low as 70.
Please people, think before you post something stupid.
Please people, think before you post something stupid.
k4polo
Smash Journeyman
Well an expert Metaknight player can gets your percentage up very fast and kill you rather quickly. HE can per say kill you if you are on the stage to well but once you are off the stage he is very hard to defend. against.
Plus he can drag you upwards as well. Metaknight main means of KOing seems to be drive the left or drive them up wards and possibly Up B. They expert though probbaly do crazy stuff to kill though.
Plus he can drag you upwards as well. Metaknight main means of KOing seems to be drive the left or drive them up wards and possibly Up B. They expert though probbaly do crazy stuff to kill though
.Evilpenguin
Smash Cadet
The real question is do you think SBR will put out another April fools tier list?
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/w...tier_list_.28April_Fools:_March_31.2C_2004.29
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/w...tier_list_.28April_Fools:_March_31.2C_2004.29
hey i just said that!
...except, the last guy actually said that he doesn't have any kill moves, which is true. it's not amazingly hard to kill people with metaknight, but he doesn't have a single move that kills until about 120, and after DI and move degradation, it can be a bit worse.
but yea, you're right, meta knight is good at gimping, edgeguarding, and killing off the top of the screen via combo (situational).
Why's Zelda not on this list? Half her moves can ko at 100%
Evilpenguin
Smash Cadet
Yeah, you're right. all his kill moves are weak. but there is a large difference between KOing and KOing with a kill move.
Nasty_Nate
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 1,164
First off, thanks Hilt for the tier list love
Second, I posted so much info so people could argue/help me with the tier list. The missing info part isnt really missing info, its just that I have the least experience with those characters, so I want more input from others on them.
Third, they are in order according to how I see them on the list
And lastly, sonic has fast run speed but all his moves are laggy, many of them are some variation of spinning, which doesnt have a big hitbox, and his ko moves are hard to hit.
Lucario can combo with his f and nair but the combos are so weak it doesnt even matter (my friend got a 5 hit air combo which did like 16%....) His stronger moves are slow, and waiting until hes at high damage for them to be more effective is just stupid.
Again jiggs, dk, and yoshi are on the part of the list that I have least experience with, but from what Ive seen of them they look better than lucario and sonic (Ive used/seen players use lucario and sonic more than those 3 characters, and no matter which tournament or who I play online, it doesnt end up well)
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Dear god, you 2006-2008 members dont know ****!
You dont go by who kills what at 80% or 100%.....ect
marth,falco,ZS,olimar and pit are at the top.....not sure the order.
and obviously none of you have seen what a samus can do........therefore your list are far from right.
you MUST wait for BIG/many tournaments to happen before a GOOD list can be made. anything made now is totaly WRONG and will not be taken as fact by the majority of SWF(well the smart players anyway).
You dont go by who kills what at 80% or 100%.....ect
marth,falco,ZS,olimar and pit are at the top.....not sure the order.
and obviously none of you have seen what a samus can do........therefore your list are far from right.
you MUST wait for BIG/many tournaments to happen before a GOOD list can be made. anything made now is totaly WRONG and will not be taken as fact by the majority of SWF(well the smart players anyway).
IsmashedYOURmom
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2007
- Messages
- 143
Forgive them for they know not at what they're doing.
I've seen people pick up samus, and I've seen people pick up a marth. Someone who just picks up marth and goes at it is a bit harder to deal with than a samus no offence. Not tryin to offend your favorite character, but it's gonna be way harder to even give these guys a tier. We should be greatful it's this hard to put dudes in a tier list.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
that was not my point. watch/witness several GOOD samus players(hylian,hugs,rohins,me) at many different match-ups. Also watch where samus players place in big tournies or against higher level players. If you replace the word samus with any other character name.......that is how u need to judge them.
All of these things need to be done to ALL of the characters and things will start to develop. Also, you MUST give the game 6 months to a YEAR before any sort of a list can be made. And again, as the years go on, new things will be discovered and the list will change.
All of these things need to be done to ALL of the characters and things will start to develop. Also, you MUST give the game 6 months to a YEAR before any sort of a list can be made. And again, as the years go on, new things will be discovered and the list will change.
Joe_Sumo
Smash Apprentice
have there been any tourney results yet. thats really what the tier lists are all about. that and match-ups
HAPPY 100TH POST WEWT!!!@@!!!
<----what the **** is this smiley for??
HAPPY 100TH POST WEWT!!!@@!!!
<----what the **** is this smiley for??balzin
Smash Rookie
Listen, I'm not going to pretend to godly, but I atleast own the game. Discredit me as much as you want, but when it all comes down to it, I own the game and you don't, and I'm sure I've had more time played. Then again, who am I to argue with someone who has a phd?
In all seriousness, however, I will concede that meta has great spikes and edge guarding, but my point remains, he has little or no power to kill in one move when his opponent is below 120/130% or so.
GamerGuitarist7
Smash Champion
lol, not all of us 2006 - early 2007 people are so bad, but i never listen to 2008 since their just Brawl-hype people.
Anyways, metaknight is wayyyyyyyy more capable of KOing than some people are making it seem. His up-b has rediculous knockback and can be used out of shield. watch some of gimpyfish's metaknight videos, he's already won at least 3-5 Brawl tournies in SoCal (****, maybe even more.)
Other characters that I think are REALLY good (since everyone is at least pretty good) and in no particular order
-Pit
-Marth
-Toon Link
-Spacies (high tier?)
-Ike (high/mid)
-Olimar
-ROB (high/mid?)
-Lucas (high?)
TheMagicalKuja
Smash Champion
I don't see Sonic's moves being laggy compared to most others. My biggest problem is his hitbox. Can't bloody hit anything without Sonic practically ****** them beforehand.
...For some reason I can imagine Sonic taking bottom tier in stride. -_-
...For some reason I can imagine Sonic taking bottom tier in stride. -_-
JimmieCrackCorn
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
- Messages
- 1
Where is snake despite being slow he is crazy good.
Wtfwasthat
Smash Journeyman
Dont take this personally but I just dont get why people want their main to be top/high tier. Alot of people just use the top/highs because theyre ranked good. Its not the character thats good its the player. Im a luigi main and i would hate it if he was overused....just sayin...
TehBo49
Smash Ace
No offense, but the whole point of this thread is to make your own list & discuss other people's lists, not to come up with an official list.
Here's what my list looks like so far:
Top
Toon Link
Wolf
Marth
Pit
High
Lucas
Pikachu
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Fox
ROB
Upper Middle
Falco
Lucario
Ness
Snake
Pikmin & Olimar
Luigi
Zelda
Squirtle
Lower Middle
Samus
Diddy Kong
Ivysaur
Kirby
Mr. Game & Watch
Zero Suit Samus
Charizard
Low
Wario
Sheik
Captain Falcon
Peach
Mario
Sonic
Jigglypuff
Bottom
Ganondorf
Link
Donkey Kong
Bowser
Ice Climbers
Yoshi
- Status