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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

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supercake

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
80
Pikachu is top tier. I don't main Pikachu. I don't even like Pikachu, I despise him in a way. But he's top tier. I don't want to have to explain why he's top tier again, can't you just shut up and agree with me so it isn't a grand hassle?
Pikachu is not even high tier, let alone top. :laugh: If there was a market for this I would place 100$ that Pikachu would not be top tier, ever. And I would be right, of course, because the chances of him being top tier are 1/100 or something around there. Lucario has a better chance, iceclimbers have a better chance, hell even luigi's chances are only a little worse.
 

Contrary

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
52
I wouldn't say Rob is top tier, but definitely high at least.
As many others, I still never found Wolf to be top tier material either.
 

Corner-Trap

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
535
Location
Fayetteville, NC
Pikachu is not even high tier, let alone top. :laugh: If there was a market for this I would place 100$ that Pikachu would not be top tier, ever. And I would be right, of course, because the chances of him being top tier are 1/100 or something around there. Lucario has a better chance, iceclimbers have a better chance, hell even luigi's chances are only a little worse.
I'd seriously take that $100 bet. You honestly don't know much about Pikachu do you? He has more of a chance then any character you listed, and I main the IC's so thats saying quite a bit. How bout you go do some research on that little electric rat, and you could possibly learn a **** thing or two, instead of making uneducated rants.
 

Smooth Criminal

Da Cheef
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
13,576
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NNID
boundless_light
Guilty Gear's mad overrated though. Basic, entry-level play takes years to comprehend. That's too tedious if you ask me-----~snip!~
YOU DID NOT JUST INSULT GG!

*TAKES GLOVES OFF.*

Lol. Just playing. But GG is awesome!

Even better than Smash!

*FLEES THE "TIER DISCUSSION" BEFORE HIS HEAD EXPLODES.*

Smooth Criminal
 

BDawgPHD

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
751
I love Pikachu. He's great and I may main him. But I don't know about Top Tier. I'd say high tier. His approach is rather poor along with his grab range. And he's very light. Of course he's still great just not dominant enough to be top tier. Still High tier is pretty good.
Pikachu's jab has good stopping power and not much lag. His tilts are pretty decent, especially his uair. His dthrow combos into usmash, which is reasonably powerful, and move degradation makes dthrow to usmash work longer. His dsmash is the equivalent to Peach's dsmash in Melee in priority, speed, and laglessness. It's not as devastating power-wise, but is devastating when you get caught in it nonetheless. His fsmash is a strong killer, has good range and priority, and is disjointed. His bair is good for multiple hits and racking up damage. His dair isn't too bad of an attack, nor is his uair. His fair is pretty good, I don't know about his nair. His B is an excellent, spammable projectile that stops most ground approaches. His side B has a much greater uncharged distance, making it good for recoveries and as a usable attack. His up B is very good for recoveries and knocking opponents off ledges. His down B is devastatingly strong, kills at low percentages with the thunder strike alone, let alone when Pikachu radiates a stronger hitbox around him when he is struck, and can be combo'd into, striking the opponents high up in the air, killing them that much sooner. He doesn't need an approach, but shield poking with dsmash does just fine if he has to.

No reason for Pikachu to be anything less than top tier. I've seen many good Pikachu on and offline.

The point of the post was to show what a tier list is suppose to represent. It's meant to evaluate the characters abilities, not the players. Obviously it requires a players abilities to utilize a characters abilities, but that has too many variables to be honestly judged.
Well, somehow SBR manages to make those judgments very well. Not to mention that the tier list is dynamic....it's dynamic because it's dependent on how the players can utilize the characters to win....which is why tournaments have a significant impact on tier lists in the first place. I mean, Yoshi could be top tier for all we know, because we haven't seen Yoshi used by pros against other pros in all matchups. Unless several pros actually use Yoshi in tournaments and show exactly how he fares, there's no way to know exactly how good Yoshi is. On the flipside, someone like Marth could have very excellent spacing abilities and could very well be the best character in the game, but if the pros are unable to abuse it to the point of unprecedented winning in Brawl, it does no good. So, I have no idea why you think that it has more to do with the character's ability than it does to do with the player's ability.
 

supercake

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
80
I'd seriously take that $100 bet. You honestly don't know much about Pikachu do you? He has more of a chance then any character you listed, and I main the IC's so thats saying quite a bit. How bout you go do some research on that little electric rat, and you could possibly learn a **** thing or two, instead of making uneducated rants.
Let's make another bet- I can find more Pikachu mains who agree with me that their character is not top tier, and even a good amount who think he's mid, than you can find people who think is top but don't even main him.
 

Corner-Trap

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
535
Location
Fayetteville, NC
Let's make another bet- I can find more Pikachu mains who agree with me that their character is not top tier, and even a good amount who think he's mid, than you can find people who think is top but don't even main him.
I bet I can find more people who says he's high tier, whether or not they main him.
 

SheikSmasher

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
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50
Location
Uk
I do believe though that all characters can be played well its just depends on 1 thing 1: the player playing them.
 

Corner-Trap

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
535
Location
Fayetteville, NC
Well, somehow SBR manages to make those judgments very well. Not to mention that the tier list is dynamic....it's dynamic because it's dependent on how the players can utilize the characters to win....which is why tournaments have a significant impact on tier lists in the first place. I mean, Yoshi could be top tier for all we know, because we haven't seen Yoshi used by pros against other pros in all matchups. Unless several pros actually use Yoshi in tournaments and show exactly how he fares, there's no way to know exactly how good Yoshi is. On the flipside, someone like Marth could have very excellent spacing abilities and could very well be the best character in the game, but if the pros are unable to abuse it to the point of unprecedented winning in Brawl, it does no good. So, I have no idea why you think that it has more to do with the character's ability than it does to do with the player's ability.
I'll agree with you to an extent. Tier lists are based off of characters abilities, but are also heavily influenced by match-ups and tournament results.
 

Kiwikomix

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
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927
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Ames, IA
No reason for Pikachu to be anything less than top tier. I've seen many good Pikachu on and offline.
All that stuff you mentioned, plus quick attack cancel, which leads to mindgames, quick getaways, thundershock spamming... his learning curve and potential for advanced techniques are massive. However, if he does appear in top tier, it will be at the lower end, due to the fact that he still has a bad habit of losing to higher characters in match-ups: Marth, Falco, GDub, MK, and so on.

Edit: Gah, I need to change my avatar, I keep thinking I'm Corner-Trap >_<
 

daytimeninja

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
190
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Indiana
NNID
gavgrego
Tiers seriously don't exist in brawl. There are too many good characters. I can name about 15 off the the top of my head that would be considered top tier.
 

VulgarHandGestures

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
326
Cry more, little boy. Maybe your mommy will get a band-aid for your bleeding heart.
Besides, if what you say is true, SRK wouldn't have an entire section of the forums devoted to Smash. Corner-Trap knows he's not in SRKansas anymore, and that's why he's posting his list right alongside everyone else's. You have a problem with him doing that? Then you're just as bad as the SRK that you speak of, which died in 2005. Actually...scratch that. You're worse.
that's quite a high horse you're riding, there. oops, you called me a little boy, guess i'm wrong :(

srk does have a smash subforum. that doesn't mean the other srk'ers don't laugh and sneer at them. and don't tell me they never have or they don't now, i saw it the last time i was lurking on those boards.

i don't have a problem with having any noob throw up their own stupid tier list. that's what this thread is for. i DO have a problem with someone presenting any tier list as though they have any sort of weight. opening every post with "ok guys, here's the updated srk tier list!", among other things, just reeks of a passive-aggressive, power-struggle, me-too mentality.

Part of SRK hates Smash, just like part of SWF hates SF. All the players who do like Smash on SRK post in the Smash thread. So don't generalize SRK off of your limited knowledge of our community. Also, why do you even bother posting in this thread if you're going to make statements like the SBR are the only ones who can make a tier list. The SBR has reminded players throughout it's existence to not take their words as gospel, but apparently you missed that. We are in no way trying to be offensive by posting SRK's tier list, only reason I bring it in here is to get SWF's view. If you don't care about SRK's tier list then just ignore it whenever I post, and you need to take a long look in the mirror if you're trying to call anyone arrogant.
the statement i made was that the sbr is the only group that gets to make the OFFICIAL tier list. you can make all the tier lists you want, but "bringing news from the land of REAL fighting games" just hits a soft spot with me. the sbr may have told players to not take their word as gospel, however, very respected people have made definite statements on the sbr's place in the community, and i assure you, those statements were not anywhere close to "take it or leave it." the sbr is the only group officially entrusted with the responsibility of creating a tier list. i have a sneaking suspicion that you're taking that comment out of context, as well.

and what's this? "We are in no way trying to be offensive by posting SRK's tier list, only reason I bring it in here is to get SWF's view." you want a tier list by smashboards, and a tier list by srk... which is exactly what i'm taking issue with. you know, when i first started this discussion, i was simply stating that you "letting everyone know what srk thinks" wasn't going to mean anything, as your tier list would essentially be "just another tier list." but, as this discussion has developed, it now looks to me like you're actually trying to gain some sort of power with this.

i get that this is a place for the regular people to discuss their own tier lists... and i guess in a way that's what i'm trying to tell you as well. this thread isn't here to validate srk's belief in it's natural right to be at the center of any fighting game's community.
 

VEC

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
391
Location
New York
Pikachu is top tier. I don't main Pikachu. I don't even like Pikachu, I despise him in a way. But he's top tier. I don't want to have to explain why he's top tier again, can't you just shut up and agree with me so it isn't a grand hassle?
Your ****ing ******** if you think Pikachu is top tier, You main MetaKnight on of the most broken characters, so Shut the **** up, BDick.
 

VulgarHandGestures

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
326
as far as the pikachu discussion goes: i, as a player who uses pikachu as one of my mains, am of the opinion that he is high tier. in some ways, he about as broken as snake (thunder, dsmash, etc.), but i don't get the feeling that he has as much potential as some of the top tier shoo-ins such as toon link or snake.

that said, i wouldn't really be that surprised if pikachu made his way into the top tier at some point in this game's life.

EDIT: and don't waste your time with vec, guys. he's almost as arrogant and mouthy as that coreygames guy, and he plays like a little *****. just ignore him, you won't get anywhere.
 

Corigames

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
5,817
Location
Tempe, AZ
Tiers seriously don't exist in brawl. There are too many good characters. I can name about 15 off the the top of my head that would be considered top tier.
I really don't get this, so I'm going to post two responses based off of how this post was meant to be:

1.

I see what you did there. Tiers don't exist yet people are putting the same bunch of people at the top. I know.

2.

Are you an idiot? You just said tiers don't exist and then say a bunch of characters are better than others, thus proving that tiers do exist. Can it be fail time now?
 

Kiwikomix

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
927
Location
Ames, IA
I love it when people come on to this thread and yell, but don't give any reasons why you're wrong except incorporating "****" into your name. If you don't have anything worth saying, go hang out in Meet and Greet, VEDick.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
@Coreygames^^Epic win.

I think that SRK's input in this thread is not a bad thing. Their inputs and opinions are just as important as ours. We just have to remember that these things still are opinions, and that all these tier lists (even the official one when it comes out) will be subject to change as the metagame advances.

That is all.
 

BDawgPHD

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
751
Your ****ing ******** if you think Pikachu is top tier, You main MetaKnight on of the most broken characters, so Shut the **** up, BDick.
That's MR. BDick to you, you little cretin :-P

as far as the pikachu discussion goes: i, as a player who uses pikachu as one of my mains, am of the opinion that he is high tier. in some ways, he about as broken as snake (thunder, dsmash, etc.), but i don't get the feeling that he has as much potential as some of the top tier shoo-ins such as toon link or snake.

that said, i wouldn't really be that surprised if pikachu made his way into the top tier at some point in this game's life.

EDIT: and don't waste your time with vec, guys. he's almost as arrogant and mouthy as that coreygames guy, and he plays like a little *****. just ignore him, you won't get anywhere.
Well, most characters don't have an obscenely broken killing method like Pikachu. MK does, Snake does, and all three fight well enough without them anyway. DK also has an obscene killing method, although his recovery keeps him out of top tier. I've seen Pikachu play, his lagless, high priority moves make for good spacing and minimal risk.
 

VEC

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
391
Location
New York
LOL VulgarHandSigns is pissed, because I ***** HIM!!!! He sucks with TOP TIER SNAKE
 

BDawgPHD

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
751
LOL VulgarHandSigns is pissed, because I ***** HIM!!!! He sucks with TOP TIER SNAKE
OBJECTION!

*presents VHG*

He's not a scrub, there's no way you could have beaten him, let alone "***** him" :lick:

Lol, you should play me. I feel like putting some *****es in their place today. Hit me up on aim, KaizoMan100s
 

VEC

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
391
Location
New York
Well I beat Bdawg, We were playing randoms, I won 6-1 then we went best on best MK on Pika and I won, He is trash.
 

BDawgPHD

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
751
Lol, VEC is a scrub. He uses projectile spam on wifi with a laggy connection to win games....I won the first one, my Falcon vs his Marth. I'm sure he'll post up the results of the other matches, too.
 

St. Viers

Smash Champion
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
2,409
Location
Boston MA
VEC: You suck, shut up...I can't really be nice about this. Pikachu is quick, has good grabs, good attacks, good recovery. His up/f-smash kill, and are quick (his f-smash also covers the ledge) He doesn't have to waste his good moves to prevent move degradation, as his jab, b-air, and up-air->n-air to rack up damage.

His only problem is lack of range, which is made up with by his speed and priority. If I has wifi &brawl I'd trash you with my secondary character (the random icon) 36 times. Go crawl away and die. Or try and be productive, but I fear killing yourself would be easier, as you've shown NO effort in trying to contribute. Just flame. And guess what...You can't even troll well.

[me prepares for warning]

More on-topic, mario is seeming better than I first assumed, perhaps top of bottom, or bottom of low? His fireballs are nice, and although he can't kill (besides his doc-like smash, which has horrible range, or b-air, if you can manage not to use it to space). Maybe when I get the hang of his FLUD down, edgeguarding will be easier, but as it is, I find myself needing to use b-air too much to make it a kill move.

Also, OOS d-air owns, for the record XD. I hate it as a replacement for the old d-air, but it has a use at least
 

VEC

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
391
Location
New York
I won the others after the falcon vs Marth =]
Luigi Vs Bowser ME
Sheik Vs Dk me
Bowser vs Luigi Me
Link on Pika ME
MK on Pika Me

So I am better

Scrublet.
 

VEC

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
391
Location
New York
ST. Viers, I would **** you, I didnt only beat him with Pikachu you scrub, PLUS I BEAT HIS PIKA WITH LINK WHO PPL SAY SUCK AHAHHAHAHAHA
 

BDawgPHD

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
751
I doubt you'd beat St. Viers. He doesn't even have a main and I'd bet he'd take you to the cleaners ;)

By the way, I think you seem to have forgotten the match where you used Meta Knight because you thought any scrub could own with him, got absolutely mauled by MY Meta Knight on the first stock, and then gave up. Oh, maybe that one didn't count :3
 
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