Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[VulgarHandGestures]

That's because I know a Pikachu that ****stomps yours

i want to fight him.

EDIT: woot 100th post

vec spams spotdodge to dsmash, no tactics anywhere. go die.

 

[BDawgPHD]

i want to fight him.

EDIT: woot 100th post

vec spams spotdodge to dsmash, no tactics anywhere. go die.

The best part is when he just spams B until you actually compensate for lag and get away, only to get hit with an aerial or something because your options are limited in the gayest fashion. What a little BK

Also, my friend can't play you on wifi because his internet blows hard.

Also, I may be exaggerating, as in he'll probably just beat you, maybe, and I don't know exactly how good you are either......because on wifi, the game changes completely, so you really can't make direct judgments by it.

 

[Illussionary]

This is my elite Tier List! They are in no particular order in tiers.

Top Tier:

Marth
Diddy Kong
Toon Link
Wolf
Snake
R.O.B.

High Tier:

Zelda
Game & Watch
King Dedede
Ness
Olimar
Fox
Falco
Zamus
Pickachu
Ike
Pit
Luigi
Meta Knight
Sonic
Sheik

Middle Tier:
Samus
Wario
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Lucas
Bowser
Mario
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers
Yoshi
Link
Kirby
Peach

Low:

Gannondorf
Captain Falcon
JigglyPuff

Is this pretty accurrate so far?

 

[Corner-Trap]

BDawgPHD

Weren't you the one who said no lag john's, when I said doing CG's with the IC's online would be hard? I hope you see the hypocrisy in this. And what exactly is wrong with VEC using the lag to his advantage? I thought that would simply be the smart thing to do. If you know projectile camping works better online, then why not utilize it? I'm not trying to be offensive in any way, just pointing it out.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Where the hell did the usage of "Johns" come in?



Seeing as that is my American Name, I find it quite odd.

 

[BDawgPHD]

BDawgPHD

Weren't you the one who said no lag john's, when I said doing CG's with the IC's online would be hard? I hope you see the hypocrisy in this. And what exactly is wrong with VEC using the lag to his advantage? I thought that would simply be the smart thing to do. If you know projectile camping works better online, then why not utilize it? I'm not trying to be offensive in any way, just pointing it out.

That's because I was being a dillhole

Well, in my defense, I said to VEC that he was better at online play, for what it's worth. I'd rather be good at Brawl than playing Brawl on wifi.

I don't play to win on wifi, I play to have a good time. And to ****stomp noobs. So all in all it was fun, I used moves on him and he took it like a man. Then he actually tried.....by spamming.

Also, chain grabbing, although hard to start because it's hard to grab in general on wifi, is easy because it's mostly timing, and as long as you trust the timing of it, it's easy. But meh.

Where the hell did the usage of "Johns" come in?


Seeing as that is my American Name, I find it quite odd.

supposedly there was a dude named John who had an excuse for like every game he lost or something.

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

Also, my friend can't play you on wifi because his internet blows hard.

Also, I may be exaggerating, as in he'll probably just beat you, maybe, and I don't know exactly how good you are either......because on wifi, the game changes completely, so you really can't make direct judgments by it.

have him come to your house or something. i'm not letting that comment go uncontested.

if he plays pikachu i might not even use my pikachu against him. pika dittos are laaaaaame.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

This is my elite Tier List! They are in no particular order in tiers.

Top Tier:

Marth
Diddy Kong
Toon Link
Wolf
Snake
R.O.B.

High Tier:

Zelda
Game & Watch
King Dedede
Ness
Olimar
Fox
Falco
Zamus
Pickachu
Ike
Pit
Luigi
Meta Knight
Sonic
Sheik

Middle Tier:
Samus
Wario
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Lucas
Bowser
Mario
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers
Yoshi
Link
Kirby
Peach

Low:

Gannondorf
Captain Falcon
JigglyPuff

Is this pretty accurrate so far?

Eh, it's about as accurate as anyone who's not talking out of their arse. I'd bump the ICs up one, bring Lucas and Ness closer together on the tierlist, bring Yoshi, Diddy, and Wolf down a tier, and maybe put G&W in Top.

 

[BDawgPHD]

have him come to your house or something. i'm not letting that comment go uncontested.

if he plays pikachu i might not even use my pikachu against him. pika dittos are laaaaaame.

if only it were that simple....it's not like we had a nice clean connection either :-P

if I can arrange it, I will, but I don't think it'll work. Besides, you're from Texas, and the lag will always be bad.

 

[Browny]

vec spams spotdodge to dsmash, no tactics anywhere. go die.

no get it right, VEC plays to WIN. anyone who whinges or thinks otherwise is a scrub. dont believe me? read all the threads here about it. i dont agree with it, but hey, everyone else apparently does >_>

i know VEC is an idiot and he needs to be shown up, but dont start pulling out excuses if you lose.

 

[Corner-Trap]

Where the hell did the usage of "Johns" come in?



Seeing as that is my American Name, I find it quite odd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsU8klTXD_I&feature=related

Wait for the 5:25 mark.

 

[BDawgPHD]

I've never played on wifi before

Well, lag has a major effect on the gameplay in general. If lag wasn't a problem, there would be international MLG tourneys held over the internet.

 

[Browny]

wow thats really intelligent.

ive played hundreds of wifi games, as a matter of fact im in australias first wifi tournament tonight. lag is only a problem if you have **** internet, my games are near perfect most of the time.

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

no get it right, VEC plays to WIN. anyone who whinges or thinks otherwise is a scrub. dont believe me? read all the threads here about it. i dont agree with it, but hey, everyone else apparently does >_>

i know VEC is an idiot and he needs to be shown up, but dont start pulling out excuses if you lose.

vec plays like a **** sucker. i understand all that jazz about "playing to win", but anyway you spin it, it's a ***** playstyle.

keep in mind, i never said he DIDN'T win, i just sayed he played like a little ****. spotdodge to dsmash then spam thunder at the edge until all 4 stocks are gone doesn't take any skill and it's really annoying. yes, he won, and yes, i could do the same thing back to him, and i've tried, too... but i think i got tired of that before my opponents did, lol. i guess it just takes a special type of person to be able to handle being a ****head for their whole life.

 

[BDawgPHD]

wow thats really intelligent.

ive played hundreds of wifi games, as a matter of fact im in australias first wifi tournament tonight. lag is only a problem if you have **** internet, my games are near perfect most of the time.

I have a lot of good, mostly lagless games with people. the problem gets when I play nubs with **** internet like VEC. It's tough to have a good game on a connection that isn't "green", even if the player isn't a total BK....VEC is a total BK. I mean he's a BK that knows how to win over a laggy wifi connection, but a BK is a BK.

 

[Conda]

Near perfect = .3 seconds of lag. You cannot get below .2seconds of lag unless you live very close to eachother.
.2-.3 seconds ruins precise characters/playstyles/timings.

 

[Corner-Trap]

It seems like the scrub mentality is spreading throughout this thread. If spot dodging into Dsmash then spamming thunder was essentially the best tactic to use online with Pika, wouldn't VEC be a complete moron not to use it? And if VEC is doing something as clearly telegraphed as a single tactic, then isn't it your fault for not finding a counter?

 

[Illussionary]

Eh, it's about as accurate as anyone who's not talking out of their arse. I'd bump the ICs up one, bring Lucas and Ness closer together on the tierlist, bring Yoshi, Diddy, and Wolf down a tier, and maybe put G&W in Top.

Thanks for the critque.

 

[Izzy-pop]

Ice climbers, Snake, DDD, olimar, diddy, toony,(High) (Middle) marth, lucas, pit, Metaknight, wolf, falco, luigi, Ike, Fox, Wario, game and watch, ROb, zelda, DK, Sonic

Everyone else is teh sux and takes skillz to be good with.

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

It seems like the scrub mentality is spreading throughout this thread. If spot dodging into Dsmash then spamming thunder was essentially the best tactic to use online with Pika, wouldn't VEC be a complete moron not to use it? And if VEC is doing something as clearly telegraphed as a single tactic, then isn't it your fault for not finding a counter?

like i said, i admit he won. and i admit it was probably tactically a great decision.

but it was ridiculously annoying, blatantly skilless, and playing against him (or like him) was indescribably stupid.

he won. but he's a **** sucker. and really, you don't even need to play him to figure that one out.

 

[Met]

I Have The Biggest ****ien Wiener In The Worlsds Lolz Meta Is Gayt

 

[St. Viers]

lol. Just drop the whole VECthing. I'm bored of trash-talking...lets get back to making fun of nubby tier-lists. At least that brings the community closer together.

*wishes I could play VEC, cause he seems good, and I have not troublel playing "cheap" people.*

 

[Corner-Trap]

like i said, i admit he won. and i admit it was probably tactically a great decision.

but it was ridiculously annoying, blatantly skilless, and playing against him (or like him) was indescribably stupid.

he won. but he's a **** sucker. and really, you don't even need to play him to figure that one out.

I hope you see how you contradicted yourself within the same post. Just because VEC didn't use any AT's or anything to that affect, doesn't mean his play style had no skill involve. Using a single move if done well can be very skillful. If he does have no skill as you imply, then where does that put BDawgPHD and anyone else who lost to him? Do they somehow have more skill than VEC? As I said before, I really dislike the scrub mentality. Y'all always love to say no johns, well guess what, no johns.

I never thought I'd see the day that I would stick up for someone I don't like.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

my nuuuuuuuuuuuuub tier list

Top tier
Bowser he looks cool. and i like him because he's big
Yoshi+Mario because that makes super mario yoshi rider!
Donkey kong because he like bannas like me.

High tier
ganon because ganon is the king of evil
every one else is whatever.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Thanks for the critque.

ATL? YOU SHOULD TOTALLY COME TO THE GREATEST MELEE TOURNEY SINCE BRAWL CAME OUT.

my nuuuuuuuuuuuuub tier list

Top tier
Bowser he looks cool. and i like him because he's big
Yoshi+Mario because that makes super mario yoshi rider!
Donkey kong because he like bannas like me.

High tier
ganon because ganon is the king of evil
every one else is whatever.

Ladies and gentleman, anybody who has Zaraki Kenpachi in their sig deserves attention. What he says is the troof.

Smooth Criminal

 

[PIMPSLAP]

MJ is cool smooth criminal
i added some to my NUUUUB tier list
Wario because i like driving around with his bike it's fun....
i win all my games online because i c stick alot and the my oponent walks into it.(noobs best friend)

thanks for the compliment on my sig and yes he pwns.

 

[Gindler]

Oh and pikachu Top Tier? He/she/it/whatever has the most useless Fair in the game, and the Dair is an easy contender for the attack with the MOST landing lag (keep in mind the word contender) the other three aerials aren't bad. The new virtually lagless thunder is a godsend but I find it pretty hard to get hit by unless someone spills pepper into my eyes, Dsmash isn't too much of a bother it you DI out properly which most of the time you're able to do, the only thing I really hate about fighting pikachu's is their thundershock spammin (neutral B).

 

[Conda]

I'll agree with Pika's fair.

 

[Tien2500]

Oh and pikachu Top Tier? He/she/it/whatever has the most useless Fair in the game, and the Dair is an easy contender for the attack with the MOST landing lag (keep in mind the word contender) the other three aerials aren't bad. The new virtually lagless thunder is a godsend but I find it pretty hard to get hit by unless someone spills pepper into my eyes, Dsmash isn't too much of a bother it you DI out properly which most of the time you're able to do, the only thing I really hate about fighting pikachu's is their thundershock spammin (neutral B).

Pikachu's DSmash is pretty hard to DI out of. And even if you don't hit with thunder it still serves its purpose by preventing anyone from approaching you from above. (plus wavebouncing with it is pretty useful). The combination of the two, plus thundershock, makes it very hard to approach Pikachu. Pika also is very fast, has a very powerful Usmash and a reasonably powerful Fsmash. His Bair goes through shields pretty well. All of these factors together put Pikachu high on the tier list. Maybe not Top tier but high.

 

[Gindler]

Ah, I guess I take advantage of certain characters juggernaut frames as well when it comes to the Dsmash. True the thunder is really more of a scare tactic, can't believe I haven't realized it before. I will agree the Bair is the most annoying of pikachu's moves, well besides the thundershock spammin'. If i were to put pikachu in the high tier list it'd be low in it or high in mid for sure, I once used pikachu once and he was SO EASY to pick up it wasn't even funny.

Oh and for the record brawl does have tiers for those of you who don't think so for some reason, they're just alot more even than melee's were, I've seen a pretty good C.Falcon beat a pretty good snake so that basically says it all even if it may have been luck.

 

[Browny]

pikachu's dair only has high landing lag if you fast fall or QAC it, as long as you dont tap the stick it has some lag but only like, 1/10th of a second, still far quicker than many other characters d-airs.

 

[Conda]

People seem to be talking mainly about the same 10-ish characters here, which is fine.

 

[Skylynx]

Sonic is pretty good. His lack of kill moves makes him hard to use in a free-for-all. He really shines in one-on-one battles. He's so fast it's redicuhlus. He can combo quickly and rack up tons of damage. I'd call him close to high-tier.

Pit is a little over-rated. His attacks can be easily punished. But his arrows are good for knocking Wario off his bike. Pit's side-B is good for edge-guarding. And his taunts are cool too. Call him mid-high-tier.

Diddy's a major pain. Good moves, almost no lag-time, good get-up move. His down-B is the painest move of the game. He'll probably be top-tier.

Hate bananas forever.

 

[Skylynx]

Oh yeah, and Pokémon Trainer isn't bad either.

Hate bananas forever.

 

[Browny]

/me prepares skylynx a brand new flame shield

seriously guys, dont do it

 

[Corner-Trap]

Skylynx

Sonic is bad. Why? Because he has one of the most piss poor move sets in the entire game. Overall he severely lacks in priority, damage, knockback, and range. Even the speed of his attacks are average at best. Most characters can beat you straight out of your attacks. Jabs alone shut down half of your arsenal.

 

[MuBa]

And tripping just makes Sonic's dashing game worse.

 

[Browny]

once again you bring out what sonics weaknesses are on paper. im sure if you looked at captain falcons raw stats in melee and compared it to someone like mewtwo you would quickly put them in opposite ends of the tier list too.

Sonics damage isnt low, its average. his aerials all do 11+ damage, two tilts do 11 + 14, and his pummel and throw are actually quite strong. and whats his problem with knockback? his b-air, u-air, fsmash and d-smash all have pretty good knockback, all easily capable of killing at 100%. and dont bring up range on the fsmash, his stutter stepped fsmash has more range than marths, so leave it at that.

his priority is poor and his range below average but thats it.

everyone thinks its so easy to dodge and punish spin dash attacks, thats until they actually play a good sonic user, which im inclined to believe none of you have. im sure you all thought it was so easy to dodge dins fire with airdodge too...

dont get me wrong i know sonic is bad, but thats only because nearly everyone who plays him has no idea what to do and which of his attacks actually have very high priority.

 

[BDawgPHD]

I hope you see how you contradicted yourself within the same post. Just because VEC didn't use any AT's or anything to that affect, doesn't mean his play style had no skill involve. Using a single move if done well can be very skillful. If he does have no skill as you imply, then where does that put BDawgPHD and anyone else who lost to him? Do they somehow have more skill than VEC? As I said before, I really dislike the scrub mentality. Y'all always love to say no johns, well guess what, no johns.

I never thought I'd see the day that I would stick up for someone I don't like.

*....must...resist....urge....to argue.....with morons.................phew*

The problem with theorizing is that you have no idea how it works out in practice. Before, Sonic was predicted to be a good character IN THEORY because of his speed/chasing ability. Then he was predicted to be a bad character IN THEORY because of his limited range. I think both are feasible, but the only real way to know is to work with Sonic and figure out how to use him. Sonic has minimal risk for the most part, but doesn't have a lot of spacing power due to his limited range. So it's tough to know how good/bad he is, except from experience.

 

[A2ZOMG]

[me prepares for warning]

More on-topic, mario is seeming better than I first assumed, perhaps top of bottom, or bottom of low? His fireballs are nice, and although he can't kill (besides his doc-like smash, which has horrible range, or b-air, if you can manage not to use it to space). Maybe when I get the hang of his FLUD down, edgeguarding will be easier, but as it is, I find myself needing to use b-air too much to make it a kill move.

Also, OOS d-air owns, for the record XD. I hate it as a replacement for the old d-air, but it has a use at least

Dude, you forget that Mario has one of the best ledgeguard strategies in the game due to having two options to push people with that do not reset Up-Bs. Mike Hawk has a vid called Mario's World where he shows how to use stuff like that to it's best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uill9wgXQ4

Plus, he doesn't get projectile spammed because he has the Cape. His recovery isn't nearly as bad as some people say it is because he can stick in the air for pretty long and he can toss a bunch of Fireballs and use his quick aerial attacks + Cape to deter ledgeguarders.

He's at least mid tier, and he's definitely better than Sonic by far.