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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
- Status
Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
Ugh, people are STILL steryotyping about jigglypuff just because her rest goes straight up now. You do know that Jigglypuff can get a rest if she powersheilds any attack that makes the opponent get close to her. This can be done at any damage regardless of your % and their %. That basically nullifies the nurfness of Jigglypuff's Rest. I'm not asking jigglypuff to be high or top tier but seriously guys, better than Ness? Jigglypuff hasn't changed much lol.
Her rest nerf doesn't bother me, it's the fact that this is Brawl and Jiggs' wall of pain isn't as good because of airdodging. In reality, the knockback of rest got nerfed, but all the rest of her attacks got buffed, save maybe her rollout, which got a "you suck, so we'll make it harder to kill yourself" buff. Because Jiggs relies on the WoP to compete, and because of move degradation and airdodging, she doesn't do as well.
P.S. Ness is broken. Not like Snake broken, or even MK broken or Pikachu broken, but just better than Jigglypuff broken. Ness should be in the "better than Jigglypuff" tier.
Yuna-Maria
Smash Ace
That's the thing, that's probably because your Pit is very, very good, and the Snakes you've played are average or sub-par.
I've yet to play a Toon Link that could beat my Samus, but does that mean that Toon Link isn't as good as folks say he is?
tw1n
Smash Champion
I can see why you would put each in its respective categories but I'm curious about one thing. Why is Mario at the bottom? He is actually really good in brawl.
BEES
Smash Lord
In FFAs Pikachu tends to dominate with his good clearout attacks. Very often FFAs turn into 'kill the Pikachu' fights. In competitions he can get pretty far with his edgeguard, and attacks that punish rolling.
I'm curious what aspect of his metagame causes people to lump him in with the middle/low tiers. It couldn't be lack of kill moves... that's a problem for everybody.
I'm curious what aspect of his metagame causes people to lump him in with the middle/low tiers. It couldn't be lack of kill moves... that's a problem for everybody.
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
Money match Cort's Snake and tell me how you do.
Pikachu is top tier. I don't main Pikachu. I don't even like Pikachu, I despise him in a way. But he's top tier. I don't want to have to explain why he's top tier again, can't you just shut up and agree with me so it isn't a grand hassle?
SheikSmasher
Smash Cadet
I think Zelda should be in high tier not top but high due to the fact that she can go much faster in brawl then she could in melee and also because of dins fire going much faster
Griffard
Smash Ace
I've never met a Snake that could beat my Ganondorf.... and yet I still know Snake is MUCH better.....
@ cornertrap, i'm sure you've put at least some thought into your list, but i DO feel you should spend some more time playing with the chars in your bottom to mid tiers to get a better feel for placement. you have some really good and accurate ideas, but some placings could be better. also, i definitely don't feel that wolf could be a top tier character. play G&W and R.O.B. some more and try to prove me wrong. i appreciate that you're putting the effort in tho! =]
@ cornertrap, i'm sure you've put at least some thought into your list, but i DO feel you should spend some more time playing with the chars in your bottom to mid tiers to get a better feel for placement. you have some really good and accurate ideas, but some placings could be better. also, i definitely don't feel that wolf could be a top tier character. play G&W and R.O.B. some more and try to prove me wrong. i appreciate that you're putting the effort in tho! =]
Figured this is the place to ask this question:
Since the Metagame is advancing relatively rapidly due to the newness of this game and we all (should) know that the tier list is based on a Metagame of each character, how is the first tier list going to work? Are they only going to take into account recent tournament results? Is there going to be more opinion involved than in the later Melee tier lists? Are we going to have to wait until the Metagame stops advancing as rapidly?
Since the Metagame is advancing relatively rapidly due to the newness of this game and we all (should) know that the tier list is based on a Metagame of each character, how is the first tier list going to work? Are they only going to take into account recent tournament results? Is there going to be more opinion involved than in the later Melee tier lists? Are we going to have to wait until the Metagame stops advancing as rapidly?
Griffard
Smash Ace
it might seem like there would be more opinion, but i believe the SBR will make the list once MANY tournaments have occurred and the results start to basically fit into a trend.
SheikSmasher
Smash Cadet
If I had to do a list based on what characters ive seen so far it would be this:- ( I have missed out characters I havent seen so dont get annoyed if I havent added one major character. Also this is my first ever made up tier list so dont get angry at me if I put a really good character in middle for example.
Top:
Toon Link
Marth
Metaknight
Snake ( there you go lol )
High:
Zelda
Lucas
Pit
King Dedede
R.O.B.
Zero Suit Samus
Diddy Kong
Sonic
Mid:
Sheik
Wolf
Fox
Olimar
Mario
Luigi
Kirby
Ike
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Ness
Squirtle
Peach
Charizard
Low:
Ivysaur
Samus
Link
Jigglypuff
Wario
Bowser
Yoshi
Bottom: (havent seen any but from what ive seen on other tier lists then it would be....)
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Top:
Toon Link
Marth
Metaknight
Snake ( there you go lol )
High:
Zelda
Lucas
Pit
King Dedede
R.O.B.
Zero Suit Samus
Diddy Kong
Sonic
Mid:
Sheik
Wolf
Fox
Olimar
Mario
Luigi
Kirby
Ike
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Ness
Squirtle
Peach
Charizard
Low:
Ivysaur
Samus
Link
Jigglypuff
Wario
Bowser
Yoshi
Bottom: (havent seen any but from what ive seen on other tier lists then it would be....)
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Yuna-Maria
Smash Ace
Yeah, dude, Snake isn't on your list. Where's Snake?
Snake?
Snake?
Snake!
SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!
Snake?
Snake?
Snake!
SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!
Affinity
Smash Hero
i agree with your list a lot, except for a few things.
IMO:
Wario - Mid Tier
Olimar - High Tier
Wolf - High Tier
Ness - High Tier
Sonic - Low/Mid Tier
Snake - High Tier
I love Pikachu. He's great and I may main him. But I don't know about Top Tier. I'd say high tier. His approach is rather poor along with his grab range. And he's very light. Of course he's still great just not dominant enough to be top tier. Still High tier is pretty good.
SheikSmasher
Smash Cadet
Btw I havent played brawl yet because it comes it in the uk on june 27th but im just basing this list on what ive seen so far of the game
ChopingBoard
Smash Journeyman
Top
Snake
Toon Link
Metanight
High
Marth
Ice Climbers
Falco
Diddy Kong
Zero Suit
there is a start
Snake
Toon Link
Metanight
High
Marth
Ice Climbers
Falco
Diddy Kong
Zero Suit
there is a start
So here is my Tier list so far. Its very short because I'm only including characters who I've played long enough to judge adequetely. I've been maining each character for a week going in backwards alphabetical order and making the list as I go. So here it is. And keep in mind this list is meant more for higher level casual play than top level tourney play.
Top Tier
ZSS- Pretty much by default at this point. She's fast and has a great spacing game and can rack up damage quickly. Plus her armor can give you a big head start it used properly. She gets the top spot so far over Zelda because thus far I haven't seen many bad matches for ZSS where I've seen a few for Zelda. Probably won't end up in Top Tier when I add all the characters but likely high tier.
High Tier-
Zelda- Din's fire forces opponents to approach you and then Zelda's amazing defensive options destroy them. Zelda is one of the hardest if not the hardest character to approach in the game. Unfortunately against characters like Lucas, Ness, G&W, Falco, Fox, and Wolf you may have to approach at some point and then Zelda's weak approach becomes a liability which is why she misses out on the top spot.
Mid Tier-
Wolf- Wolf is alright. His F-smash has great range and his laser is useful but once opponents find out how to deal with that he's not as much of a threat. So while Wolf will absolutely destroy mediocre players he's not as useful when you get to the higher levels. His air game is ok but not great and he has a little trouble KOing unless you can save his D-smash and Fsmash. Wolf is somewhat better than average but not great. He'll probably stay in mid tier at the end.
Low Tier
Yoshi- Yoshi's not that bad. He's not that good but he's not that bad. His eggs are useful as ever and he has decent strength, speed, and weight. He just doesn't have anything to give him a big advantage. Still he's alright and might be mid tier when all is said and done. In any event he doesn't belong in the absolute bottom.
Bottom Tier
Wario- Maybe its just me but I can't use him. His range is just too limited. He's fast in the air but he just doesn't have the aerials to back it up. His f-air is ok for a combo starter but range is bad and priority is mediocre. His B-air is ok but a little bit too laggy. His Dair and Uair are both pretty good, D-air as an approach and Uair as his most reliable finisher. His nair is pretty meh. His air game is ok but he can't dominate Midair like Jiggly or Squirtle. A lot of his moves are a bit laggy particularly his Fsmash (which at least has SA) and his Ftilt. His Usmash and Dsmash are near useless. His bike is punishable by vets and only useful for recovery. The waft is good but takes too long to charge to be a major factor. And he has no projectile which is usually a bad thing. I'll keep trying out wario to see if something clicks because I feel like he has some potential I'm missing but if I don't find something hemay have to live with the shame of being bottom tier in some guys tier list on the internet.
Top Tier
ZSS- Pretty much by default at this point. She's fast and has a great spacing game and can rack up damage quickly. Plus her armor can give you a big head start it used properly. She gets the top spot so far over Zelda because thus far I haven't seen many bad matches for ZSS where I've seen a few for Zelda. Probably won't end up in Top Tier when I add all the characters but likely high tier.
High Tier-
Zelda- Din's fire forces opponents to approach you and then Zelda's amazing defensive options destroy them. Zelda is one of the hardest if not the hardest character to approach in the game. Unfortunately against characters like Lucas, Ness, G&W, Falco, Fox, and Wolf you may have to approach at some point and then Zelda's weak approach becomes a liability which is why she misses out on the top spot.
Mid Tier-
Wolf- Wolf is alright. His F-smash has great range and his laser is useful but once opponents find out how to deal with that he's not as much of a threat. So while Wolf will absolutely destroy mediocre players he's not as useful when you get to the higher levels. His air game is ok but not great and he has a little trouble KOing unless you can save his D-smash and Fsmash. Wolf is somewhat better than average but not great. He'll probably stay in mid tier at the end.
Low Tier
Yoshi- Yoshi's not that bad. He's not that good but he's not that bad. His eggs are useful as ever and he has decent strength, speed, and weight. He just doesn't have anything to give him a big advantage. Still he's alright and might be mid tier when all is said and done. In any event he doesn't belong in the absolute bottom.
Bottom Tier
Wario- Maybe its just me but I can't use him. His range is just too limited. He's fast in the air but he just doesn't have the aerials to back it up. His f-air is ok for a combo starter but range is bad and priority is mediocre. His B-air is ok but a little bit too laggy. His Dair and Uair are both pretty good, D-air as an approach and Uair as his most reliable finisher. His nair is pretty meh. His air game is ok but he can't dominate Midair like Jiggly or Squirtle. A lot of his moves are a bit laggy particularly his Fsmash (which at least has SA) and his Ftilt. His Usmash and Dsmash are near useless. His bike is punishable by vets and only useful for recovery. The waft is good but takes too long to charge to be a major factor. And he has no projectile which is usually a bad thing. I'll keep trying out wario to see if something clicks because I feel like he has some potential I'm missing but if I don't find something hemay have to live with the shame of being bottom tier in some guys tier list on the internet.
ChopingBoard
Smash Journeyman
that list is horribly misinformed. you obviously haven't seen what yoshi can really do. if you are judging by videos... stop. most of them suck right now anyways. and what is sonic doing so high up.. he blows
You forgot ice climbers. they can pretty much tear apart any character except R.O.B or Metanight.
Dunn
Smash Rookie
Figure I'll throw my current tier list to the wolves. It's too hard to make judgments on characters I myself don't feel match my own style, so I'm sure some characters are at least somewhat out of place. I'm having a hard time properly placing some characters so I'm open to feedback.
Top:
Snake
Metaknight
Falco
Toon Link
High:
Wolf
Marth
Lucas
Pit
R.O.B
King Dedede.
Mr. Game and Watch
Diddy
Fox
Olimar
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Zamus
Mid:
Zelda
Pokemon Trainer
Luigi
Ness
Wario
Shiek
Lucario
Kirby
Low:
Ike
Mario
Sonic
Bowser
DK
Yoshi
Peach
Link
Samus
Bottom:
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf
Top:
Snake
Metaknight
Falco
Toon Link
High:
Wolf
Marth
Lucas
Pit
R.O.B
King Dedede.
Mr. Game and Watch
Diddy
Fox
Olimar
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Zamus
Mid:
Zelda
Pokemon Trainer
Luigi
Ness
Wario
Shiek
Lucario
Kirby
Low:
Ike
Mario
Sonic
Bowser
DK
Yoshi
Peach
Link
Samus
Bottom:
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf
I'm happy as long as Zamus or Samus makes it to high-tier. Means one of the choices I made was good, since if she's in a high tier, it means my winning capabilities in tourneys increase! I'm not gonna waste time and make my own tier list, tho... I'd rather just read what everyone says and smile whenever I see Zamus close to the top... And see what the public thinks of the more popular characters. It'll help me get ready for when I hit my next tourney! :D
Snaketacular
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1
Hello! I'm kinda new to competitive smash, (as well as smashboards) but this is my rough draft of a tier list. Any constructive criticisms would be much appreciated, and please forgive me if my list is completely screwed up 
Top:
Falco - If only they left his reflector alone..
Marth - Sword's shorter and standard B is worse but still pretty great
Metaknight
Toon Link
High:
Pit - Good at comboing, great recovery
Snake - Good, but I don't like some of his airs.. I'm still not sure on him though.
Squirtle
Fox
Wolf
Zero Suit Samus - Haven't gotten to play her much, so I'm not really sure if this is a good spot
Mr. Game and Watch
Diddy - Great dash attack
Lucas - Seems good
King Dedede - good for a fatty
Ice Climbers - Haven't tried them much either..
Pikachu - See Ice Climbers
Mid:
Ike - potentially decent
Samus - still arright, nerfed though..
Charizard
Ivysaur
Sonic - He's not that bad..
Luigi - Gotten better
R.O.B. - another one I haven't tested much
Wario
Kirby - Got better (>^_^)>
Ness - A little better..
Yoshi - From what I hear he's better
Olimar - Not great at recovery, but kinda beastly on the stage
Low:
Zelda - Still meh
Shiek - SO nerfed
Mario - I don't like his new Down-B..
Peach - Just not that awesome anymore...
Bowser - Better, but still a fat noob
Ganondorf - I don't think he's as terrible as everyone says... still pretty craptacular though.
Link - The song remains the same
Bottom:
Jiggs - I don't know why they did this to him
Capt. Falcon - =/
Donkey Kong - I never liked DK and this game did nothing to change my mind
Hope you like my list, enjoy!
PS - They're not in any particular order within the tiers (i.e. DK may be better than Jiggs)
Top:
Falco - If only they left his reflector alone..
Marth - Sword's shorter and standard B is worse but still pretty great
Metaknight
Toon Link
High:
Pit - Good at comboing, great recovery
Snake - Good, but I don't like some of his airs.. I'm still not sure on him though.
Squirtle
Fox
Wolf
Zero Suit Samus - Haven't gotten to play her much, so I'm not really sure if this is a good spot
Mr. Game and Watch
Diddy - Great dash attack
Lucas - Seems good
King Dedede - good for a fatty
Ice Climbers - Haven't tried them much either..
Pikachu - See Ice Climbers
Mid:
Ike - potentially decent
Samus - still arright, nerfed though..
Charizard
Ivysaur
Sonic - He's not that bad..
Luigi - Gotten better
R.O.B. - another one I haven't tested much
Wario
Kirby - Got better (>^_^)>
Ness - A little better..
Yoshi - From what I hear he's better
Olimar - Not great at recovery, but kinda beastly on the stage
Low:
Zelda - Still meh
Shiek - SO nerfed
Mario - I don't like his new Down-B..
Peach - Just not that awesome anymore...
Bowser - Better, but still a fat noob
Ganondorf - I don't think he's as terrible as everyone says... still pretty craptacular though.
Link - The song remains the same
Bottom:
Jiggs - I don't know why they did this to him
Capt. Falcon - =/
Donkey Kong - I never liked DK and this game did nothing to change my mind
Hope you like my list, enjoy!
PS - They're not in any particular order within the tiers (i.e. DK may be better than Jiggs)
SwordmasterXXXI
Smash Journeyman
Good list. The only thing that bothers me is Donkey Kong's placement. He's FAR from being the worst character in the game. -_-Hello! I'm kinda new to competitive smash, (as well as smashboards) but this is my rough draft of a tier list. Any constructive criticisms would be much appreciated, and please forgive me if my list is completely screwed up
Top:
Falco - If only they left his reflector alone..
Marth - Sword's shorter and standard B is worse but still pretty great
Metaknight
Toon Link
High:
Pit - Good at comboing, great recovery
Snake - Good, but I don't like some of his airs.. I'm still not sure on him though.
Squirtle
Fox
Wolf
Zero Suit Samus - Haven't gotten to play her much, so I'm not really sure if this is a good spot
Mr. Game and Watch
Diddy - Great dash attack
Lucas - Seems good
King Dedede - good for a fatty
Ice Climbers - Haven't tried them much either..
Pikachu - See Ice Climbers
Mid:
Ike - potentially decent
Samus - still arright, nerfed though..
Charizard
Ivysaur
Sonic - He's not that bad..
Luigi - Gotten better
R.O.B. - another one I haven't tested much
Wario
Kirby - Got better (>^_^)>
Ness - A little better..
Yoshi - From what I hear he's better
Olimar - Not great at recovery, but kinda beastly on the stage
Low:
Zelda - Still meh
Shiek - SO nerfed
Mario - I don't like his new Down-B..
Peach - Just not that awesome anymore...
Bowser - Better, but still a fat noob
Ganondorf - I don't think he's as terrible as everyone says... still pretty craptacular though.
Link - The song remains the same
Bottom:
Jiggs - I don't know why they did this to him
Capt. Falcon - =/
Donkey Kong - I never liked DK and this game did nothing to change my mind
Hope you like my list, enjoy!
VulgarHandGestures
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Messages
- 326
pokemon trainer is one character. the only reason you split him up is because you don't play him and don't have any idea of how the character works.
corner-trap, no offense, but the sbr makes the official tier list. there is no point in you updating us on what srk thinks. besides that, the srk tier list is kind of ****ty.
EDIT: just noticed in the matchup thread that the pt is split up. this **** has got to stop. the individual pokemon don't have matchups because of the fatigue system, and your stupid theorycrafting doesn't do anything but give people the wrong impression.
YOU DON'T USE SELECT POKEMON. YOU USE ALL OF THEM. IT'S ONE CHARACTER. GET OVER YOURSELVES.
corner-trap, no offense, but the sbr makes the official tier list. there is no point in you updating us on what srk thinks. besides that, the srk tier list is kind of ****ty.
EDIT: just noticed in the matchup thread that the pt is split up. this **** has got to stop. the individual pokemon don't have matchups because of the fatigue system, and your stupid theorycrafting doesn't do anything but give people the wrong impression.
YOU DON'T USE SELECT POKEMON. YOU USE ALL OF THEM. IT'S ONE CHARACTER. GET OVER YOURSELVES.
Yuna-Maria
Smash Ace
Who are you to say that? Who deemed you the acting voice of Smashboards? Every user here has the right to post their tier lists that place Sonic at the top, but Corner-Trap can't update SRK's despite the fact that SRK is pretty much the end-all, be-all for fighting games?
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
I think Diddy should be on the lower end of the high tier. Some people like putting him in top tier, so I do agree with you that he's overrated, I just think he should be slightly higher than what you're suggesting. As for Wario, he's fairly weak in some areas including camping and approach. Ground game isn't much to speak for, and his air game is a bit of a mixed bag. He has great aerial mobility and can be played similarly to jiggs, but he doesn't have the priority to back it up. Edgeguarding is decent, and his recovery is really good. Main reason I've moved him down to low tier is for a lack of advantageous match-ups. He mostly only does well against the lower tiered characters, while being at a disadvantage to the higher tiered ones.
I actually consider Pika, G&W, and ROB to be essentially on the same level. As I said before that just because a character is one or two spots away from another doesn't necessarily mean that character is automatically better. Their positions are interchangeable as of now.
The point of the post was to show what a tier list is suppose to represent. It's meant to evaluate the characters abilities, not the players. Obviously it requires a players abilities to utilize a characters abilities, but that has too many variables to be honestly judged.
So because no one has beaten your Pit with Snake, you automatically assume he's not that good? There are so many holes in that logic that I won't even bother listing them. One thing I will say is that Snake has really good match-ups. Most of them leave him at an advantage, and at worst he goes even. He doesn't have a single disadvantageous match-up.
Because they're better characters. Honestly Jigglypuff isn't that good anymore, everything that made her special in Melee is now ordinary. Main things she had going for her was a good air game, awesome recovery, and rest. Most characters have a good air game and recovery, and rest has been drastically nerfed. So for being the lightest character in the game, she doesn't have much to compensate for it.
Mario is no where near "good" in Brawl. Everything about him is worse, and he received no drastic buffs to compensate for it. Worst of all he's at a disadvantage more than an advantage in most match-ups.
The SRK list isn't based solely on my play time with characters. It's based off the collective input of the players from SRK and SWF. I'm also going to take this time to list a serious complaint I have about all this tier list discussion, and it's that people are simply way to optimistic. No one is willing to accept their characters weaknesses and only look towards their strengths. Whenever someone brings up a characters weakness people try to justify it by bringing up a strength. A point I've tried to stress is that characters placed low on tier lists isn't always because they have some hideously glaring flaws, but more because they don't stack up to all the other characters. Take Mario and Captain Falcon for example. They don't have anything horribly bad about them, but it's the fact that basically every other character out does them in every area is what keeps them so low.
EDIT:
VulgarHandGestures, no offense, but the SBR makes the official tier list, so there is no point in even having this thread. You don't govern SWF or SRK so you can't tell me whether or not to update SRK's tier list. Also your opinion is rather ****ty since half of your posts are about whining over PT.
VulgarHandGestures
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Messages
- 326
first of all, the srk boards have literally shunned us since smash first came out. now they just expect to be seen as some sort of beacon for the community? **** that.
second of all, the sbr has been and always will be the competitive voice for the community. everyone can post all the tier lists they want with everyone in top tier and joke tiers like "manly tier" that only snake and falcon can be in, but the competitive community will look for the sbr tier list. everything else is just spam. constantly updating us on srk's opinion is actually a little offensive, to be honest. as though everyone here is just supposed to nod his or her head silently once the srk list has been passed? the sbr is the only group officially entrusted with the creation of the tier list, and acting like we're even SUPPOSED to care what srk thinks is beyond arrogant and pretentious.
Yuna-Maria
Smash Ace
Cry more, little boy. Maybe your mommy will get a band-aid for your bleeding heart.
Besides, if what you say is true, SRK wouldn't have an entire section of the forums devoted to Smash. Corner-Trap knows he's not in SRKansas anymore, and that's why he's posting his list right alongside everyone else's. You have a problem with him doing that? Then you're just as bad as the SRK that you speak of, which died in 2005. Actually...scratch that. You're worse.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
Part of SRK hates Smash, just like part of SWF hates SF. All the players who do like Smash on SRK post in the Smash thread. So don't generalize SRK off of your limited knowledge of our community. Also, why do you even bother posting in this thread if you're going to make statements like the SBR are the only ones who can make a tier list. The SBR has reminded players throughout it's existence to not take their words as gospel, but apparently you missed that. We are in no way trying to be offensive by posting SRK's tier list, only reason I bring it in here is to get SWF's view. If you don't care about SRK's tier list then just ignore it whenever I post, and you need to take a long look in the mirror if you're trying to call anyone arrogant.
SheikSmasher
Smash Cadet
Zelda is high tier in my opinion because of her gr8 defense skills and yoshi is not high tier material or even middle chopingboard and if he was as easy to smash in melee and is in brawl then believe me low tier material.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
Zelda is probably only on the upper end of mid tier. She has a great set of KO moves, but her weak approach means she's not always going to land them. Her camping seemed great at first, but now it's only decnet since most characters have counters to it. This means she can't force an approach from her opponent either. So she loses out to characters with a good projectile.
Yuna-Maria
Smash Ace
Agreed.
There are other characters that can camp and rack up damage better than she can. Falco, Toon Link, and R.O.B. come to mind.
Gindler
Smash Champion
Well I have yet to play a Pit that could beat my Yoshi, true I've only played a couple cause the tournies here are all snake and MK but still according to your philosophy that would but pit lower than yoshi right? Ha, no it's a flawed way of thinking. Oh and talking about gimpable recovery Pit is ridiculously easy to gimp.
and I'd say pit has an upperhand on Pit but that's all about matchups rather than Tiers isn't it?
Farely good list, just has alot of flaws though. A DK won a tourney around here I've heard (wasn't there but everyone at the tourney I went to was talking about it) the giant punch Juggernaut frames really help him out, and giant/DK punch out of shield pretty much ***** face, I don't use DK or really like him so that's not biased one bit.Hello! I'm kinda new to competitive smash, (as well as smashboards) but this is my rough draft of a tier list. Any constructive criticisms would be much appreciated, and please forgive me if my list is completely screwed up
Top:
Falco - If only they left his reflector alone..
Marth - Sword's shorter and standard B is worse but still pretty great
Metaknight
Toon Link
High:
Pit - Good at comboing, great recovery
Snake - Good, but I don't like some of his airs.. I'm still not sure on him though.
Squirtle
Fox
Wolf
Zero Suit Samus - Haven't gotten to play her much, so I'm not really sure if this is a good spot
Mr. Game and Watch
Diddy - Great dash attack
Lucas - Seems good
King Dedede - good for a fatty
Ice Climbers - Haven't tried them much either..
Pikachu - See Ice Climbers
Mid:
Ike - potentially decent
Samus - still arright, nerfed though..
Charizard
Ivysaur
Sonic - He's not that bad..
Luigi - Gotten better
R.O.B. - another one I haven't tested much
Wario
Kirby - Got better (>^_^)>
Ness - A little better..
Yoshi - From what I hear he's better
Olimar - Not great at recovery, but kinda beastly on the stage
Low:
Zelda - Still meh
Shiek - SO nerfed
Mario - I don't like his new Down-B..
Peach - Just not that awesome anymore...
Bowser - Better, but still a fat noob
Ganondorf - I don't think he's as terrible as everyone says... still pretty craptacular though.
Link - The song remains the same
Bottom:
Jiggs - I don't know why they did this to him
Capt. Falcon - =/
Donkey Kong - I never liked DK and this game did nothing to change my mind
Hope you like my list, enjoy!
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Didn't we already discuss this....
http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4189134&postcount=1556
Whether tiers and match-ups are decided based on a snapshot of a given moment or based on overall victory chance has not been decided definatively yet.
SwordmasterXXXI
Smash Journeyman
Can someone explain why R.O.B is top tier? I'm not saying he isn't, I just want some good reasons.
SheikSmasher
Smash Cadet
Here are some good vids of zelda and sheik owning http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDgUo_9W724
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKl1VfjYBHI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtZXfZM9gyI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9o2qUUacNM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKl1VfjYBHI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtZXfZM9gyI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9o2qUUacNM
- Status