Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[TehBo49]

the last two tier lists are moronic. kill yourselves.

EDIT: whoops, last THREE tier lists. my bad, got beat on post time by some know-nothing.

Rather than flat-out calling my list moronic, why not tell me what's wrong with it & why. This is the brawl tier DISCUSSION thread after all.

 

[Bowser King]

Here's my updated list:

**TOP TIER**
Snake
Toon Link
Mr. G&W
Pikachu
Lucas

dont you think thats a little to high I say high tier at the most. Mabye you may be a little biased.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Rather than flat-out calling my list moronic, why not tell me what's wrong with it & why. This is the brawl tier DISCUSSION thread after all.

The problem is that you're not in our discourse, and to bring you into our discourse would require us to go back to explain everything that *should* be common knowledge, which would just be a huge hassle.

 

[ShadowLink84]

The fact that you rate (Samus and Zamus) and (Zelda and Shiek) together shows that you don't understand all characters. Therefore the tier list is void.
Also shiek is middle tier while Zamus is high.

So because he went on the basis that the user would use both characters means he is wrong?

>.>

Perhaps it would be better if you just said the following.

Sheik/zelda and Samus/Zamus do NOT have to be used at the same time.

That and they aren't forced to switch like the PT.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

Actually, Pikachu has a chance at being top tier. <_<

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Why the hell must every noob post their own ****ty tier list?

Well not to be rude, but this is the Tier disscussion thread. Would you rather have it spread all across the board or concentrated in one topic? Besides if that's not an alt, then you're technically a noob too considering your standing.



Ah well, guess Smashboards is my new permanent home, since I recently got banned from Gamefaqs . My Tier list had a good 1300+ posts of discussion going on it, and it was one of the more accurate ones considering that ****hole filled with noobs who think Ike and Pit are broken. Oh well maybe it's for the better.


*Camps*

 

[Wayland]

What I love about the bad tier lists is how people try to compile the whole cast. That's stupid. It takes the entire SBR a huge amount of time to do that, and people think they can do it by themselves in one day. Deciding who goes in high and top tier is hard enough, but I don't think that there's enough of a low tier metagame to really decide how the bottom matchups will shake down.

It's almost like "Snake, MK, Marth at the top, Falcon and Ganon at the bottom, and everything in the middle is my preference." That's an exaggeration, but the middle and low tiers are probably entirely wrong. Even if they put the right people in, it's almost undoubtedly in the wrong order.

People need to quit posting huge lists, and stick to the discussion of matchups. It's way better. One person said "why don't you critique my list and tell me what's wrong?" I mean, then, every ****list would need the advice, and we wouldn't get anything done.

 

[TehBo49]

The problem is that you're not in our discourse, and to bring you into our discourse would require us to go back to explain everything that *should* be common knowledge, which would just be a huge hassle.

If you're not going to discuss a list & simply reject it without providing reasons (no matter how "obvious" they may be) then this thread will go nowhere.

@ bowser king: While I may be a little biased, I honestly think Pikachu can make top tier. He has a lot of good matchups, good aerial game, good smashes (especially d-smash), & a brutal edgeguard. He's also very difficult to projectile camp against, has a good projectile of his own, has 2 chaingrabs, & has QAC.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I guess that would be MUCH more efficient than what we have now. Let's start a debate shall we?



LUCARIO, Where should he go? DISCUSS!!!

 

[TehBo49]

^Lucario is probably about mid. His attacks have a lot of range, his aerials are good, & he can camp well but he has trouble getting KOs at low/mid percents. He is also pretty easy to edgeguard.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

His wall clings can come in quite handy when there's a wall to cling to. I also love the disjointed hitboxes he has on his smashes.

 

[Aminar]

4/10/11/10/4
tier Top/high/Mid/Low/Bottom
Top

Snake
Rob
Olimar
G&W

High

Pika
Meta
Luigi
Pit
Marth
IC's
Falco
Toon Link
Lucas
Zelda


Mid
Squirtle
Kirby
Wolf
ZSS
Ike
Fox
Dedede
Diddy
Shiek
Wario
Dk

Low

Ness
Mario
Charizard
Lucario
Bowser
Ivysaur
Peach
Samus
Sonic
Yoshi

Bottom

Link
Jigglypuff
C. Falcon
Ganondorf


I think that everyone through the top pf low is very solid and there could be some hefty fluctuations there. The tiers could be better ordered. Top and high I see all being quite good. I know this lacks evidence but alot of this is based on a discussion w/ Black Hayate, and what i have seen. I will have seen more by the end of the weekend.

 

[furyberserk]

Most of these tier lists sucks in my opinion. Snake can't be god tier. Though it sucks, I will list some requirements of the Top tier list.
Good Projectile, can combo well, has decent knock back, quick with curtain things(attacks with little lage, running speed) and of course, edgeguarding with many techniques.
Like I said it sucks.
For these requirements, you have, Pikachu, Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Pit.
Requirements for High.
Almost as good as the top but maybe a little slower or worse in anyway that still has them a little similar.
I.C., Toon Link, Zelda, Lucario, Squirtle, Diddy, Peach(wtf still), Marth, Metaknight, Wolf, ROB, and Luigi.
Middle is decent overall.
Has Olimar, Bulbisaur, Charizard, Dedede, Kirby, Lucas, Mario, Ness, and Samus(really...wtf Nerf).-_-'
Low is near useless.
Low is DK, Sonic, Bowser, Ike, Yoshi, Mr. Game & Watch(maybe higher), Jigglypuff(just too light), Link, and Captain Falcon.
Bottom useless period.
(WTF...aren't there anyone left -_-' - Nooo! What about Ganondo...he is better than some like bowser overall and has a gannycide).

I don't know why people hate Captain Falcon or Ganondorf. Use the Uairs and forward B and you will win. Plus great DI doing the up B. I never lost with him before. Samus is even worse with the nerfs and bombs not exploding really. Harder bombjumps, no attacks after a bomb jump until frames end and weak as hell nair...with decent knock back after about 200% damage really. But she is still good. Zero Suit Samus is middle. Good at comboing. Captain isn't fast anymore. Ganondorf is even slower. Link has slower dash, but faster running speed. Toon Link has a boomerang with his body high hitbox going out. Link's fair was nerf'd.
Tiers are getting really crappy. The game was made with a way of eliminating the tiers almost completely, but as a result, made many good characters bad and terrible characters worse. Really. Plus the list I made is crappy as Hell.

Thanks for reading. -_-'(depressed)

 

[furyberserk]

Actually, Pikachu has a chance at being top tier. <_<

WTF again. He was god in the original.

 

[furyberserk]

Actually, Pikachu has a chance at being top tier. <_<

WTF again. He was god in the original. >_>

 

[Darth Waffles]

For lack of wanting to quote long tier lists , I agree with aminar (four posts above) for the most part. There are a few things i would change, such as Ness (and mario?) moving up to middle tier. It's still too soon to tell, because not everyone has played a "competitively great" set of other characters. Personally, I have yet to face a Snake that can beat my R.O.B., but a lot of people put Snake ahead or at the top.

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

4/10/11/10/4
tier Top/high/Mid/Low/Bottom
Top

Snake
Rob
Olimar
G&W

High

Pika
Meta
Luigi
Pit
Marth
IC's
Falco
Toon Link
Lucas
Zelda


Mid
Squirtle
Kirby
Wolf
ZSS
Ike
Fox
Dedede
Diddy
Shiek
Wario
Dk

Low

Ness
Mario
Charizard
Lucario
Bowser
Ivysaur
Peach
Samus
Sonic
Yoshi

Bottom

Link
Jigglypuff
C. Falcon
Ganondorf


I think that everyone through the top pf low is very solid and there could be some hefty fluctuations there. The tiers could be better ordered. Top and high I see all being quite good. I know this lacks evidence but alot of this is based on a discussion w/ Black Hayate, and what i have seen. I will have seen more by the end of the weekend.

idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot

Most of these tier lists sucks in my opinion. Snake can't be god tier. Though it sucks, I will list some requirements of the Top tier list.
Good Projectile, can combo well, has decent knock back, quick with curtain things(attacks with little lage, running speed) and of course, edgeguarding with many techniques.
Like I said it sucks.
For these requirements, you have, Pikachu, Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Pit.
Requirements for High.
Almost as good as the top but maybe a little slower or worse in anyway that still has them a little similar.
I.C., Toon Link, Zelda, Lucario, Squirtle, Diddy, Peach(wtf still), Marth, Metaknight, Wolf, ROB, and Luigi.
Middle is decent overall.
Has Olimar, Bulbisaur, Charizard, Dedede, Kirby, Lucas, Mario, Ness, and Samus(really...wtf Nerf).-_-'
Low is near useless.
Low is DK, Sonic, Bowser, Ike, Yoshi, Mr. Game & Watch(maybe higher), Jigglypuff(just too light), Link, and Captain Falcon.
Bottom useless period.
(WTF...aren't there anyone left -_-' - Nooo! What about Ganondo...he is better than some like bowser overall and has a gannycide).

I don't know why people hate Captain Falcon or Ganondorf. Use the Uairs and forward B and you will win. Plus great DI doing the up B. I never lost with him before. Samus is even worse with the nerfs and bombs not exploding really. Harder bombjumps, no attacks after a bomb jump until frames end and weak as hell nair...with decent knock back after about 200% damage really. But she is still good. Zero Suit Samus is middle. Good at comboing. Captain isn't fast anymore. Ganondorf is even slower. Link has slower dash, but faster running speed. Toon Link has a boomerang with his body high hitbox going out. Link's fair was nerf'd.
Tiers are getting really crappy. The game was made with a way of eliminating the tiers almost completely, but as a result, made many good characters bad and terrible characters worse. Really. Plus the list I made is crappy as Hell.

Thanks for reading. -_-'(depressed)

idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot

 

[A2ZOMG]

furyberserk, your post makes no sense. Please make better use of the English language next time.

Also from what little I can tell, your impressions are completely wrong, especially if one of them says G&W is low tier.

 

[Sh1n0b1]

Is there ever going to be a tier list where captain falcon and ganondorf are going to be somewhere else other then low or bottom?

 

[furyberserk]

furyberserk, your post makes no sense. Please make better use of the English language next time.

Also from what little I can tell, your impressions are completely wrong, especially if one of them says G&W is low tier.

I did it on what I thought at the time. I know Mr. Game&Wach shouldn't be Low but I was just too bored. I wouldn't really give my opinion on the list in the order of characters because I really don't care on how the list looks when metagame is the star.

I made good use of the English language anyway. And MOST of the end was just crap anyway that I wanted to state. The end really is just crap that I wanted to state, just like this sentence.

I at least made decent use of the English language anyway.

 

[furyberserk]

furyberserk, your post makes no sense. Please make better use of the English language next time.

Also from what little I can tell, your impressions are completely wrong, especially if one of them says G&W is low tier.

I did it on what I thought at the time. I know Mr. Game&Wach shouldn't be Low but I was just too bored. I wouldn't really give my opinion on the list in the order of characters because I really don't care on how the list looks when metagame is the star.

I made good use of the English language anyway. And MOST of the end was just crap anyway that I wanted to state. The end really is just crap that I wanted to state, just like this sentence.

I at least made decent use of the English language anyway.

I know I misspelled decient also.

 

[Zook]

idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot



idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot

Limed for truth.

...Did furyberserk even include Ivysaur?

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

Limed for truth.

...Did furyberserk even include Ivysaur?

he included "bulbisaur."

*/wrists*

 

[estion11]

Why the hell must every noob post their own ****ty tier list?

1. you have 2 posts stfu

2. this thread was made specifically for n00bs to post tier lists if you dont like it gtfo

 

[TehBo49]

@ Zook: Yeah, he did, he just called him bulbasaur (-_-)

@ Sh1n0b1: At this point, probably not.

@ furyberserk: Your list is missing a few characters (Snake is one, I can't think of the rest). Also, seriously Mr.G&W low tier?

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Hey Vulgar, Would you like to play a few matches this weekend? I'm having a huge meeting at a cousin's house, and he along with me and a couple of others, wanna test ourselves against someone from Smashboards, Since we're in decently close areas, the Lag shouldn't be too bad

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

yeah, that sounds cool. shoot me a pm with the details.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Alright, when I get access to his Wii this Friday/Saturday I'll tell you the FC in this topic. I'll probably be bad at the beginning but I'll start to improve eventually


On Friday's I'll probably be on around 6:00-10:00, and on Saturday from like 1:00 to 10:00

 

[SaxDude93]

Most of these tier lists sucks in my opinion. Snake can't be god tier. Though it sucks, I will list some requirements of the Top tier list.
Good Projectile, can combo well, has decent knock back, quick with curtain things(attacks with little lage, running speed) and of course, edgeguarding with many techniques.
Like I said it sucks.
For these requirements, you have, Pikachu, Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Pit.
Requirements for High.
Almost as good as the top but maybe a little slower or worse in anyway that still has them a little similar.
I.C., Toon Link, Zelda, Lucario, Squirtle, Diddy, Peach(wtf still), Marth, Metaknight, Wolf, ROB, and Luigi.
Middle is decent overall.
Has Olimar, Bulbisaur, Charizard, Dedede, Kirby, Lucas, Mario, Ness, and Samus(really...wtf Nerf).-_-'
Low is near useless.
Low is DK, Sonic, Bowser, Ike, Yoshi, Mr. Game & Watch(maybe higher), Jigglypuff(just too light), Link, and Captain Falcon.
Bottom useless period.
(WTF...aren't there anyone left -_-' - Nooo! What about Ganondo...he is better than some like bowser overall and has a gannycide).

I don't know why people hate Captain Falcon or Ganondorf. Use the Uairs and forward B and you will win. Plus great DI doing the up B. I never lost with him before. Samus is even worse with the nerfs and bombs not exploding really. Harder bombjumps, no attacks after a bomb jump until frames end and weak as hell nair...with decent knock back after about 200% damage really. But she is still good. Zero Suit Samus is middle. Good at comboing. Captain isn't fast anymore. Ganondorf is even slower. Link has slower dash, but faster running speed. Toon Link has a boomerang with his body high hitbox going out. Link's fair was nerf'd.
Tiers are getting really crappy. The game was made with a way of eliminating the tiers almost completely, but as a result, made many good characters bad and terrible characters worse. Really. Plus the list I made is crappy as Hell.

Thanks for reading. -_-'(depressed)

Umm. Snake has all of the god tier qualities you listed. Snake has the most projectiles of any character. He has many grenade tricks, his Nikita, his mines, and the mortar. Snake has HAX knockback in his tilts and AAA combo. Snake can combo relatively well. On and Snake can edgeguard in so many ways, it isn't funny. Oh and Snake is quick and has awesome priority.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Sax, I see you were the first to notice I got the Ban hammer on Gamefaqs in my topic

 

[SaxDude93]

Yep. The Ban-Hammer. Even more feared than the Hammer and the Golden Hammer.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Yep. The Ban-Hammer. Even more feared than the Hammer and the Golden Hammer.

Especially when, you know, Bungie uses it XD

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Anyways, go post in that topic, and tell them what happened (One of my friends who used his account often on my computer wanted to Suicide by posting Taki Pr0n, and of course my account got banned along with his >_<) . Tell them I appreciate all the Support and constructive critism that made my list better. I will miss them and hope that I could sneak back on from another comp. Just for cheeziness, tell them to get that last topic to 500 in my memory <_<.

And if you could, could you get Middle finger ASCII art with the title "To the haters" over it, that would be awesome.


This was my final update before I got banned, post it there please:

Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Falco
R.O.B.
Marth
Toon Link

High Tier:
Mr. Game and Watch
Ice Climbers
Diddy Kong
Wolf
Zelda
Pit
King Dedede
Fox
Olimar
Pikachu
Zero Suit Samus
Ness
Lucas

Mid Tier:
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Kirby
Luigi
Wario
Sheik
Mario
Bowser
Donkey Kong
lke

Low tier :
Sonic
Peach
Yoshi
Link
Samus
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

 

[Sinistar]

Snake is the god tier of lag.

Most of those tricks of his are so easy to guess.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Snake is the god tier of lag.

Most of those tricks of his are so easy to guess.

I know, I mean I know he's gonna use grenades, C4, nikita, and land mines to force me to approach him, and I know once I approach him he's gonna use tilts. So yea.....

....what the **** good does that do me O_O

 

[Gindler]

Snakes not that bad of a matchup, His land mine blows up when I toss and egg at it, when he pulls out a grenade I toss an egg and it blows up in his hand nikita all you have to do is use a multihit attack on it (Bair Dair) and it'll go right through you doing nothing or anyone with a reflector (like half the cast) can just turn it back at him.

So all you have to do is make snake approach you, his smash attacks are practically worthless in a stand up fight. Every character but him has an anti roll Dsmash but him, he takes like 2 seconds burying a land mine, his Fsmash is SOOOOO slow so hitting is pretty impossible, the upsmash is just a mortar sure it's annoying after his dash attack but it only does 4 damage when he pulls it out and most Nair will destroy the mortar shell without taking any damage. Sure the tilts are a pain bust besides that he has almost nothing useful at his disposal (well his super slow C4 if you're lucky enough to put it on someone then sure it's good)

 

[Emblem Lord]

-_-

People don't understand. Certain characters have options that are so good that ot doesn't even matter that you KNOW what they will do. The options they have are just so superior to most characters that it puts them on another level. Snake's tilts do that for him as well as his smash dash and his other basic tactics.

His tilts and hitboxes are just so crazy and very safe for the most part and it's very hard to punish him.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Snakes not that bad of a matchup, His land mine blows up when I toss and egg at it, when he pulls out a grenade I toss an egg and it blows up in his hand nikita all you have to do is use a multihit attack on it (Bair Dair) and it'll go right through you doing nothing or anyone with a reflector (like half the cast) can just turn it back at him.

So all you have to do is make snake approach you, his smash attacks are practically worthless in a stand up fight. Every character but him has an anti roll Dsmash but him, he takes like 2 seconds burying a land mine, his Fsmash is SOOOOO slow so hitting is pretty impossible, the upsmash is just a mortar sure it's annoying after his dash attack but it only does 4 damage when he pulls it out and most Nair will destroy the mortar shell without taking any damage. Sure the tilts are a pain bust besides that he has almost nothing useful at his disposal (well his super slow C4 if you're lucky enough to put it on someone then sure it's good)

Seriously dude, I'm emotionally ****ed in the head right now, and it's impairing my ability to deal with people that don't know how to play Brawl, so bear with me.

Snake's tilts are more than "a pain", they're a huge part of his game. It's hard to camp out Snake because Snake has many options for setting up. You can try to spam back, but it'll usually fail. Even if he has to approach, he can usually do so safely depending on what projectiles you have, not to mention the fact that the Brawl game engine allows you to dodge projectiles rather easily.

Bearing that in mind, think about his land mines and C4. You don't want to get near them for obvious reasons, ergo Snake is controlling those spots on the field. That means your approach options are limited, meaning he knows exactly where you can come from. If he has to approach, he still has control over the field. His tilts and setups do the rest.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

iceclimbers my anti snake.
Snake my anti everything else....\\0//

 

[Gindler]

True true, even though his smash attacks are practically worthless his tilts are somewhat quick and have huge knock back and deal alot of damage, uptilt kills if someone falls into it, ftilt is a double hit that hurts like crap and Dtilt can be done while crawling which is annoying.