Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[SBJtagteam]

ddd needs to be in top he has hardly any bad matchups

pit... bad matchup for him... and ike...

 

[ShadowLink84]

pit... bad matchup for him... and ike...

You also forgot Fox, Falco, Sonic etc etc.

 

[Lovage 805]

top tier
snake
marth
low tier
everyone else
go brawl!

 

[Browny]

Please also take into account taht Snake's recovery can be nerfed by grabs.
I don't use Marth or Luigi I use mainly Sonic and Ike.

cant snake regain his recovery by c4-ing himself after he is thrown out of cypher

**** snake is OP lol

About diddy... i know his bananas are insane, but does anyone take into account the act that anyone can use them? i fought a banana spamming diddy today and i just picked them all up and threw them right back at him, he got hit by them a lot more then i ever did. It just seems to me that diddy is rated highly because of those bananas and their potential, since his kill moves are limited and he is lightweight.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

cant snake regain his recovery by c4-ing himself after he is thrown out of cypher

**** snake is OP lol

About diddy... i know his bananas are insane, but does anyone take into account the act that anyone can use them? i fought a banana spamming diddy today and i just picked them all up and threw them right back at him, he got hit by them a lot more then i ever did. It just seems to me that diddy is rated highly because of those bananas and their potential, since his kill moves are limited and he is lightweight.

That was a bad Diddy. The combo and trap potential he has with the bananas, along with the ability to pick them up in a dash attack that can be immediately canceled into **** near any move in Diddy's arsenal gives him a great pressure game. He has trouble killing, but with the banana traps and general speed, has no problem racking up damage via pressure strings.

 

[SK8orDIE]

Yeah, I agree with your Diddy analysis. He's definitely not high tier. But if the diddy in question knows how to apply pressure and spacing limitations with the bananas, things get a bit more complicated. His mobility helps him accomplish this too.

I think Yoshi is a bit underrated, especially in some matchups. His tilts, smashes and down-b come out so quick and have good kill power.

On the subject of tiers in Brawl:

In general, I think that Brawl has a lot of solid, well-balanced (mid-tier) characters, with only a few really good and really bad characters; a tall bell-shaped curve, if you will. Character matchups are also very important this game, I believe. Any thoughts?

 

[I 0022 I]

Ice Climbers are looking at being at least high tier, they have 5 infinites already

they have an infinite grab thats a 0-death combo every time if done right

 

[MelodiousNocturne]

cant snake regain his recovery by c4-ing himself after he is thrown out of cypher

Yeah it's actually an amazing recover tool. Iori pulls it over very well.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Dedede and Wario have too many bad-match-ups to be top IMO.

Also where is Falco?

Other then that, DSF's list was fine.

 

[jigglypuff_monarchy]

Olimar just seems so broken, imo.

i've never had much luck against that character.

 

[rathy Aro]

Here might be a good idea. Why don't we get a tier list draft that most everyone (that know what they are talking about (not me XD)) can agree on general list that at least puts people in high, mid, and low. From there people can make more specific ones instead of a bunch of totally inaccurate tier lists as top with Ike and Sonic.

Anyone think the above idea is a good one? or think it fails, I just want some kind of response is all.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

Anyone think the above idea is a good one? or think it fails, I just want some kind of response is all.

It's idealistic and stupid. No one's going to agree on a tier list unless it's released by the highest authorities for such things.

 

[rubiksfriend]

It's going to be a while before a truly structured tier list is released.

 

[ShadowLink84]

cant snake regain his recovery by c4-ing himself after he is thrown out of cypher

**** snake is OP lol

.

yes but he would have to be quick and don't forget he would be vulnerable during that moment.
Bomb jumping with the C4 is only safe at long distance. When you do it up close you risk the chance of getting gimped or killed.

 

[Sandwich]

Hmm okay how about Marth vs Snake?
Or Luigi vs Snake.

Considering how both characters have decent approaching methods and a decent ground game. While their grund games aren't on pair they can take things to the air where Snake is easily outmatched by those two characters.
I am curious about your opinion on those two match ups.

Please also take into account taht Snake's recovery can be nerfed by grabs.
I don't use Marth or Luigi I use mainly Sonic and Ike.

Weegee player here, and Snake is simply outgunned in the air. Even when he tries his hardest to stay on the ground a Luigi can beat a Snake.

 

[Corner-Trap]

Hmm okay how about Marth vs Snake?
Or Luigi vs Snake.

Considering how both characters have decent approaching methods and a decent ground game. While their grund games aren't on pair they can take things to the air where Snake is easily outmatched by those two characters.
I am curious about your opinion on those two match ups.

Please also take into account taht Snake's recovery can be nerfed by grabs.
I don't use Marth or Luigi I use mainly Sonic and Ike.

vs. Marth
I actually consider this match-up a 5/5. Only thing Snake has on Marth is a good camping game, aside from that they're fairly much equal in most regards, and neither takes a huge lead.

vs. Luigi
Snake has better camping and approaches than Luigi. He completely destroys him on the ground, and does decently with him in the air since his Bair can blow through a lot of Luigi's aerials despite their high priority. But why would Snake even bother to jump when he has good anti-air defenses from the ground such as Utilt, Usmash, or simply crouch to doge then punish.

 

[BDawgPHD]

vs. Marth
I actually consider this match-up a 5/5. Only thing Snake has on Marth is a good camping game, aside from that they're fairly much equal in most regards, and neither takes a huge lead.

But Snake has projectiles. Marth can probably handle Snake when spacing properly, and that's assuming he never gets too close to Snake, but you're forgetting that Snake can hold grenades that detonate when he gets attacked, and I'm almost positive that they detonate even if Snake is shielding while being hit. Also, if Marth decides not to be as aggressive, that gives Snake time to set up his camping game, and Snake can kill a lot sooner than Marth can. Snake has a lot of obscene range on his aerials, although it's still a tough matchup against Marth. I think if he's proactive enough to mess with Marth's spacing, and he camps properly, the matchup goes in his favor.

Also, don't forget that if Marth makes an aerial approach, Snake can duck and dtilt.

 

[Corner-Trap]

But Snake has projectiles. Marth can probably handle Snake when spacing properly, and that's assuming he never gets too close to Snake, but you're forgetting that Snake can hold grenades that detonate when he gets attacked, and I'm almost positive that they detonate even if Snake is shielding while being hit. Also, if Marth decides not to be as aggressive, that gives Snake time to set up his camping game, and Snake can kill a lot sooner than Marth can. Snake has a lot of obscene range on his aerials, although it's still a tough matchup against Marth. I think if he's proactive enough to mess with Marth's spacing, and he camps properly, the matchup goes in his favor.

Also, don't forget that if Marth makes an aerial approach, Snake can duck and dtilt.

Either way this match-up is even with 5/5 or a slight advantage to Snake with a 6/4. But my point still stands that Snake simply has absurd match-ups. He either goes even or has an advantage.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Either way this match-up is even with 5/5 or a slight advantage to Snake with a 6/4. But my point still stands that Snake simply has absurd match-ups. He either goes even or has an advantage.

What about King Dedede? For the most part, Snake either outspams or gives rough painful buttsecks to everyone, or both. But Dedede is too heavy to get the **** knocked out of him by any one of Snake's attacks like everyone else, and his wawdle d00s likely block most of his spam....I'm not sure, but I bet they would negate/detonate the nikita, and they might set off the land mines too. On top of that, Dedede's tilts outrange Snake's and are disjointed, Dedede edgeguards like a mofo, and he has the chaingrab, which can totally screw Snake over.

Also, I think Falco would fare well against Snake with his epic laser spam, not to mention the fact that the shine alone almost counters Snake, reflecting projectiles, setting off land mines, and spacing out Snake, making it hard to use tilts and stuff. Falco's light, but he can camp out Snake all day for the most part, until Snake starts to be more aggressive....I could picture a Snake using the dash attack to try to get to Falco, but even that can be shine-stopped.

So what would Snake do to fight against Dedede and Falco?

 

[Corner-Trap]

What about King Dedede? For the most part, Snake either outspams or gives rough painful buttsecks to everyone, or both. But Dedede is too heavy to get the **** knocked out of him by any one of Snake's attacks like everyone else, and his wawdle d00s likely block most of his spam....I'm not sure, but I bet they would negate/detonate the nikita, and they might set off the land mines too. On top of that, Dedede's tilts outrange Snake's and are disjointed, Dedede edgeguards like a mofo, and he has the chaingrab, which can totally screw Snake over.

Also, I think Falco would fare well against Snake with his epic laser spam, not to mention the fact that the shine alone almost counters Snake, reflecting projectiles, setting off land mines, and spacing out Snake, making it hard to use tilts and stuff. Falco's light, but he can camp out Snake all day for the most part, until Snake starts to be more aggressive....I could picture a Snake using the dash attack to try to get to Falco, but even that can be shine-stopped.

So what would Snake do to fight against Dedede and Falco?

vs. Dedede
I honestly completely forgot about Dedede, I'll look more into this before saying anything. But I will state that this may be Snakes hardest match-up.

vs. Falco
Snake can simply crawl to get around SHDL, and he beats out Falco up close. So Falco may have him at long range, but at close range Snake has the advantage. Aside from crawling, Snake can use a boost smash to get in close.

 

[Sonic XD]

Guys snake is better than falco and D3 in many ways. Snake can actually still camp them. Also, snake can use his ftilt. I'm sure you know that that ftilt is very powerful.

 

[chansen]

i just remembered why i avoid this thread like the plague....

regardless, dedede gets ***** all ways by snake, snake is too good to comprehend. If you havent checked out tapion using the ubeatable style, you should. its too ****

ftilt
utilt
umash
a few bairs

too **** to comprehend.

 

[Griffard]

edit: please delete this post

 

[Griffard]

after a day and about 300 kills of trying out ganondorf and learning all of the advanced strategies, i would say he's definitely not going to be bottom tier unless a LOT of other chars are there with him.

To form a tier list we all agree on, why don't we go spot by spot from the bottom, voting and debating on which char should go where until we have a generally accepted list? the top will probably never be agreed upon, but we will have a near flawless bottom 3/4 of a list and general idea of how the top/high-high tiers will look.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Could someone repost the Link to the Japanesse Tourney results on this site here?

 

[Browny]

after a day and about 300 kills of trying out ganondorf and learning all of the advanced strategies, i would say he's definitely not going to be bottom tier unless a LOT of other chars are there with him.

To form a tier list we all agree on, why don't we go spot by spot from the bottom, voting and debating on which char should go where until we have a generally accepted list? the top will probably never be agreed upon, but we will have a near flawless bottom 3/4 of a list and general idea of how the top/high-high tiers will look.

lol, a tier list which we agree on wont make any difference to how the real one turns out, ultimately a waste of time.

 

[chansen]

lol, a tier list which we agree on wont make any difference to how the real one turns out, ultimately a waste of time.

You should look at the name of the thread before you click.

And decided on a bottom char will be just as difficult and tedious as picking the top. We'll all disagree strongly at some point. For instance, I think sonic is bottom tier material.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

You should look at the name of the thread before you click.

And decided on a bottom char will be just as difficult and tedious as picking the top. We'll all disagree strongly at some point. For instance, I think sonic is bottom tier material.

And I concur.

 

[Sean²]

I disagree.

 

[Browny]

i didnt mean it like that.

its just that we will never all agree on a tier list. all that will do will induce countless arguments. people posting thier own opinions is fine to discuss, but attempting to cement any characters location wont achieve anything

 

[BDawgPHD]

vs. Falco
Snake can simply crawl to get around SHDL, and he beats out Falco up close. So Falco may have him at long range, but at close range Snake has the advantage. Aside from crawling, Snake can use a boost smash to get in close.

But Snake can't crawl under the shine, I don't believe. If he can, it messes up Falco's game completely. If not, then it messes up Snake's approach game bigtime.

 

[St. Viers]

omg...bdawg and corner trap are actually talking reasonable....what did I miss?

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

The best Anti Snake character is Pikachu. >_>

 

[Browny]

any reasoning behind that? i dont doubt it, i just plan on maining pikachu and im looking for a good snake counter for my group of mains

 

[Corner-Trap]

But Snake can't crawl under the shine, I don't believe. If he can, it messes up Falco's game completely. If not, then it messes up Snake's approach game bigtime.

Snake can get hit by Falco's shine while crawling. At the very least he can avoid SHDL which stops most other characters. Don't forget that he also has a boost smash which can instantly put him next to Falco if he even leaves the slightest gap in his defensive wall.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Snake can crawl under Falco's shine.

You guys didn't know that?

Well, now you know.

 

[Corner-Trap]

Snake can crawl under Falco's shine.

You guys didn't know that?

Well, now you know.

.....he can? Well I retract my statement.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Snake is too beastly for that shine.

 

[Lag]

i can safely say mr. game and watch is a higher tier than he was in melee.

*cough* top tier *cough*

 

[BDawgPHD]

The best Anti Snake character is Pikachu. >_>

The best anti-Brawl character is Pikachu.

The best anti-camping character is Meta Knight.

The best out-camping character is Snake, apparently.

And o**** he can crawl under the shine.....this more or less bones Falco, especially since Snake can dash into:

a)crawl
b)boost smash

At the most, Falco can maybe get a good dtilt on Snake, it seems. We need a Falco main in here to talk about it >_>