Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[BDawgPHD]

You said only 3 of her moves got nerfed.

You were wrong and I made a fool outta yo arse.

And now you try and change the subject?

LOL.

Arguments aren't about being right or wrong, fräulein. They're about insulting the other guy for no reason, apparently coming to the truth.

That being said, you say that all of Samus's moves got nerfed, and I said that only her three B attacks got nerfed. As I said yesterday, the death range shifted up about 40% or so, so in actuality, Samus stayed about the same, although her missile strike is nerfed, and her bombs don't work toward her recovery as they did in Melee. I forget what her charged shot kills at in Melee, but it seems like it kills at 120% in Brawl, so I don't think it really got nerfed at all. So...what do you know? We were both wrong

There's no point in saying that every character's moveset got nerfed because according to you, they did. Also, I think it might be worth mentioning that everyone thought Samus was horrible and unplayable, so I looked into Samus and realized that she really didn't change. I don't go by %'s, I go by how it feels to play as them, and I can tell who's easy to kill with and stuff like that. My "feelings" went right alongside the facts, save a few little things like the charged shot, and the unexplained discrepancy between the killing percentage difference between Melee and Brawl, which we've explained. So I'd say it worked out well enough.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

Updated my tier again. >_>


Top
===
Marth
Wolf
Toon Link


High
=====
Falco
Fox
Snake
Game and Watch
Metaknight
Pit
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Olimar
Ike
Luigi
DeDeDe
Zelda
Lucas
Diddy
Lucario
R.O.B

Mid
===
Sonic
DK
Ness
ZSS
Jiggs
Mario
Peach
Kirby
C. Falcon
Link

Low
=====
Charzard
Bowser
Ivysaur
Wario
Shiek



bottom
===
Samus
Yoshi
Gannondorf


Comments? >_>

 

[Duker]

Comments? >_>

Gannon-banned http://www.gannon-banned.com/

Ike is Top.

*runs away*



Sorry for my humoristic and very non-serious post.

On a bit more serious note, should Shiek really be that low? I haven't been following the discussing here, but a jump from Top in Melee to Low seems a bit odd, even with the exclusion of wavedash and whatever.

 

[Jing)]

You said only 3 of her moves got nerfed.

You were wrong and I made a fool outta yo arse.

And now you try and change the subject?

LOL.



......

LOLOLOL.

What does that have to do with all of her attacks being nerfed?

All of those attacks you mentioned killed at lower percents in melee than you mentioned about how they did in Brawl.

Hmmmmm.

And you fire back at me with

"Samus is a good character and can kill Jigglypuff @105%!!!!! Total pwnage bro".

LOL.

Eat **** kid.

I'm outta here before I get banned because of you idiots who never even touched Melee.

I touched melee. I was saying her moves arent as bad as you say, though kill % was nerfed a little. I was pointing out she can kill lighter characters at 105%... and a lot of her attacks have been boosted, so yea.

 

[ellelaby's younger brother]

Updated my tier again. >_>


Top
===
Marth
Wolf
Toon Link


High
=====
Falco
Fox
Snake
Game and Watch
Metaknight
Pit
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Olimar
Ike
Luigi
DeDeDe
Zelda
Lucas
Diddy
Lucario
R.O.B

Mid
===
Sonic
DK
Ness
ZSS
Jiggs
Mario
Peach
Kirby
C. Falcon
Link

Low
=====
Charzard
Bowser
Ivysaur
Wario
Shiek



bottom
===
Samus
Yoshi
Gannondorf


Comments? >_>

Where did you get Wolf so high up from? Marth top tier?? Thats ridiculous. Everything else seems about right except....

MK and Falco should also be in the top tier list, Wolf should be dropped. Diddy should be a few spaces up, even higher than Pit perhaps. Diddy has lots of priority, but then again, I don't know much. Do I?

 

[MarKO X]

but the u -air kills at 150% and his dsmash was super nerfed. Ur right about the bair and nair at the edge though beacuse sheik's egde game with the sex kicks is godly and is the reason she was so high on the melee tier list. Also Yoshi in my opininoun seems to have been buffed and the second jump has super armor frames that make yoshi hard to egde guard/edgehog

As far as Yoshi's second jump having SA frames, you'd know that if you actually played against a Yoshi. My friend does all the time, and pretty **** good too. He had SA frames in Melee as well. I remember I started using Shiek, and Yoshi was at 120%, so I used the fair, and he kept on going like he didn't get hit and I was like wtf?

And as for the tier list... oh man... here's mine...

Good
Sonic
Meta Knight
Marth
Toon Link
Olimar
Falco
Mr. Game and Watch
Lucas
Pikachu
Kirby
Pokemon Trainer
Ness
Fox
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Wolf
Ice Climbers
Lucario
Peach
Pit
Luigi
Zelda
R.O.B
Mario
Yoshi
ZSS
Sheik/Zelda (you gotta use em both for the best mix... I got owned by the combo once... bad day)
Snake
Wario
Bowser
Ike
DK


Bad
Link
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Samus
Captain Falcon
Sonic (listed twice because a Noob Sonic gets OWNED!!!)

This game is waaaaaaaay too balanced to have a tier list in my opinion. This game is all about skills, mind games, and knowing your character and your opponent's character. Yes yes, different characters have their advantages and disadvantges, certains characters counter certain characters, and they are things that can't be ignored, I'm sure that the person that dominates this game (if any competitiveness comes out of it because it seems as though no one wants to compete in this game), will be the person that uses the most mind games and has the best technical technique, not the person that uses the "best "character per se.

But continue with this tier list discussion. I think it's hillarious.

 

[brandutt845]

Updated my tier again. >_>


Top
===
Marth
Wolf
Toon Link


High
=====
Falco
Fox
Snake
Game and Watch
Metaknight
Pit
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Olimar
Ike
Luigi
DeDeDe
Zelda
Lucas
Diddy
Lucario
R.O.B

Mid
===
Sonic
DK
Ness
ZSS
Jiggs
Mario
Peach
Kirby
C. Falcon
Link

Low
=====
Charzard
Bowser
Ivysaur
Wario
Shiek



bottom
===
Samus
Yoshi
Gannondorf


Comments? >_>

I agreed with alot of this but...... Meta Knight should be in the top, sheik should be a little higher....and you forgot squirtle.

Wow I'm so happy that there's alot more good characters this time around. Especially the high tier

 

[MarKO X]

As a matter of fact, Bowser is top tier.

Why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDMcPRzaQiY

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

I say diddy, ike, marth, olimar, falco, fox, meta knight, and pit for high or top tier. And gdorf, and yoshi for bottom.

 

[Gindler]

I say diddy, ike, marth, olimar, falco, fox, meta knight, and pit for high or top tier. And gdorf, and yoshi for bottom.

I just thought I'd point out that yoshi, IS NOT bottom tier. Just because none of you have played a good yoshi doesn't mean he sucks, he just has a bigger learning curve than even a noob can play him characters like MK, pit, and Ike. He has tons of priority, Bair cancels almost all projectiles and nuetral a can cancel out alot of smash attacks.

Oh and I put gannondorf and C. Falcon on bottom tier, anyone with a sword is already a guaranteed mid tier. I'll post my full tier list tomorrow, and no just because I main yoshi I won't put him at the top but he's mid tier at least.

Oh, and btw. Yoshi has a suicide move that I'm sure most of you don't know about, so if yoshi's at 150 with 2 stocks and you're at 0 with 1 stock yoshi can still 2 stock you if he lands the suicide more effectively.

 

[AmericanBison]

Updated my tier again. >_>


Top
===
Marth
Wolf
Toon Link


High
=====
Falco
Fox
Snake
Game and Watch
Metaknight
Pit
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Olimar
Ike
Luigi
DeDeDe
Zelda
Lucas
Diddy
Lucario
R.O.B

Mid
===
Sonic
DK
Ness
ZSS
Jiggs
Mario
Peach
Kirby
C. Falcon
Link

Low
=====
Charzard
Bowser
Ivysaur
Wario
Shiek



bottom
===
Samus
Yoshi
Gannondorf


Comments? >_>

how did jiggs, ness, and falcon get above everyone on your low list? bowser and shiek i can somewhat understand, but i think wario, ivysaur, and charizard on low isn't right. i would vote wario to between high, or upper mid. charizard could be mid to low, but ivysaur is wonderful. his recovery is better than olimars too. The up-smash and up-air for ivysaur are some of the best kill moves in the game, and he has great reach. I think ivy > lucario atleast.

 

[BAND!T]

ivysaur and charizard low? i think not. and samus i highly disagree to bebottom just out of bias. but as said before, tier lists are bsically insignificant. brawl is closer to a rockpaperscissor game.

 

[BAND!T]

excluding broken techs*** [IC's chaingrabs and D3s also]

 

[Deleted member]

I just thought I'd point out that yoshi, IS NOT bottom tier. Just because none of you have played a good yoshi doesn't mean he sucks, he just has a bigger learning curve than even a noob can play him characters like MK, pit, and Ike. He has tons of priority, Bair cancels almost all projectiles and nuetral a can cancel out alot of smash attacks.

Oh, and btw. Yoshi has a suicide move that I'm sure most of you don't know about, so if yoshi's at 150 with 2 stocks and you're at 0 with 1 stock yoshi can still 2 stock you if he lands the suicide more effectively.

QFT, but the suicide move doesnt work unless they dont DI or DI into your dair, if thats what ur reffering to. I tested it. But yea, yoshi isnt bottom tier, hes better than quite a few characters, and can effectively defeat some higher tiers *cough* olimar *cough*

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

I just thought I'd point out that yoshi, IS NOT bottom tier. Just because none of you have played a good yoshi doesn't mean he sucks, he just has a bigger learning curve than even a noob can play him characters like MK, pit, and Ike. He has tons of priority, Bair cancels almost all projectiles and nuetral a can cancel out alot of smash attacks.

Oh and I put gannondorf and C. Falcon on bottom tier, anyone with a sword is already a guaranteed mid tier. I'll post my full tier list tomorrow, and no just because I main yoshi I won't put him at the top but he's mid tier at least.

Oh, and btw. Yoshi has a suicide move that I'm sure most of you don't know about, so if yoshi's at 150 with 2 stocks and you're at 0 with 1 stock yoshi can still 2 stock you if he lands the suicide more effectively.

well i suggested yoshi as bottom because i have yet to see or hear of any yoshis winning tournements or any good yoshi players. So really the only reason he is considered for low is because the lack of yoshi exposure.

 

[MarKO X]

I just thought I'd point out that yoshi, IS NOT bottom tier. Just because none of you have played a good yoshi doesn't mean he sucks, he just has a bigger learning curve than even a noob can play him characters like MK, pit, and Ike. He has tons of priority, Bair cancels almost all projectiles and nuetral a can cancel out alot of smash attacks.

Oh and I put gannondorf and C. Falcon on bottom tier, anyone with a sword is already a guaranteed mid tier. I'll post my full tier list tomorrow, and no just because I main yoshi I won't put him at the top but he's mid tier at least.

Oh, and btw. Yoshi has a suicide move that I'm sure most of you don't know about, so if yoshi's at 150 with 2 stocks and you're at 0 with 1 stock yoshi can still 2 stock you if he lands the suicide more effectively.

Really? How do you do it?

 

[Iamthemovie]

If he's talking about the neutral B move, I'm gonna stab a fork through my urethra.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

If he's talking about the neutral B move, I'm gonna stab a fork through my urethra.

That sounds obscenely painful......

 

[Deleted member]

No hes talking about a double dair, which doesnt work if they have any sense of DI, and they can just hit u before the second dair. Gindler, please dont be talkin about stuff that doesnt work (actually, it might work if they DI up into your dair =P). But yea, yoshis a pimp. He does have:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nj9DpmAAISc
skip to 2:00,

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Well this is probably the second closest list I've seen to what the public community would decide on for the current metagame tiers. Of course, this isn't what the tier list will be in a year because of the obvious things that most people are disregarding. That in turn is why I think this is so accurate as to what it would be if the masses decided on one RIGHT NOW!
The second closest is not mine btw lol
Your list will keep changing, this was either a fluke or you've looked into the CURRENT metagame very well. If you look into the direction that the metagame will develop, you'll have something quite different, but I think you would be acurate if you put your head into it. You seem to know what you're doing this far

Well done!

Edit: I'll clear up what I meant by exceptions that the masses would decide differently.
Kirby, Luigi higher and Zelda, Wolf lower.
When in fact Zelda should be at LEAST as high as you've put her, Wolf should be lower and Luigi and Kirby are much better than the majority of the roster.

Zelda being higher instead of lower is the only thing I think the public would decide on of the 4 major changes that would actually be wrong, but that'll change in a few months I'm sure.

In a year, everything there will change (just so you all know lol)

zelda will be mid tier tops.... all she has going for her is dins fire haer moves are only decent.compared tp other
To conclude to every thing i said on this thread i'm unsubscribing to this thread to many people are biased and not factual i'm tired of defending mine and other people list just. to do it again. PEACE OUT.

 

[Lenvil]

Top
===
King Dedede
Toon Link
Game and Watch
Snake
Robotic Operating Buddy


High
=====
Falco
Fox
Marth
Metaknight
Pit
Pikachu
Olimar
Ike
Luigi
ZSS
Zelda
Wolf
Lucas
Diddy
Lucario


Mid
===
Sonic
DK
Ness
Charzard
Bowser
Ivysaur
Wario
Jiggs
Mario
Peach
Kirby
C. Falcon
Link

Low/Bottom
=====
Shiek
Samus
Yoshi
Gannondorf
Ice Climbers

 

[DarkRenji]

LOLROFLMAOLOLOLOL I LOL'd SO HARD AT ICE CLIMBERS ALL THE WAY DOWN LMAO

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

Ice Climber that worst character in the game? What are you smoking?

 

[Yuna-Maria]

And Sonic above Samus...? Yeah no, sorry.

 

[da K.I.D.]

this list is obviously biased and wrong. i cant accept anything this list says based on the pure blatent, hatred that this person has for the iceclimbers, i dont even play IC's but they will never be that bad, therefore this list is completely invalid

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

its obviously a joke, they have shiek in the bottom tier.

 

[MelodiousNocturne]

Guys pay attention Ice Climbers aren't on the bottom. Squirtle is since he isn't on the list. lol

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

Also, LOL @ DeDeDe being the best character in the game.

 

[Corigames]

This is what happens when you allow n00bs to make tiers, they get themselves hurt.

 

[Gindler]

No hes talking about a double dair, which doesnt work if they have any sense of DI, and they can just hit u before the second dair. Gindler, please dont be talkin about stuff that doesnt work (actually, it might work if they DI up into your dair =P). But yea, yoshis a pimp. He does have:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nj9DpmAAISc
skip to 2:00,

Curses, you called my bluff .

But yeah, yoshi's at least low tier I'd say. He's too fast to be bottom tier.

 

[Gindler]

Top
===
Game and Watch
Snake
Robotic Operating Buddy
Toon Link


High
=====
Falco
Fox
Marth
Metaknight
King Dedede
Olimar
Pit
Diddy
Luigi
ZSS
Zelda
Wolf
Lucas
Lucario
Ike
Ivysaur
Pikachu


Mid
===
Yoshi
Sonic
DK
Squirtle
Ness
Shiek
Charzard
Bowser
Ice Climbers
Wario
Jiggs
Link
Mario
Peach
Kirby
C. Falcon

Low/Bottom
=====
Samus
Gannondorf

Here's my list. I think It's more accurate than most people's

 

[Meta Dude]

/agree with gindler.

can't believe all the yoshi hate in this thread, most of you guys placing him bottom tier just have no idea how to play him (hey, i have no idea how to play most chars other than yoshi, but i still realize their potential).

yosh has gotten nothing but buffs really, and his nerfs were hardly even nerfed at all. he can rack up damage quicker than most of you think and has enough KO moves (even his headbutt ko's at high enough %) to round him out. the only characters that really give him a hard time are sword users, but a smart yosh player can work around their swords with egg tosses and shield rolls.

i suggest you guys go watch some yoshi videos in the yoshi forum (dogger plays a pretty nasty green dino) and see that he's better than most think. i put yoshi mid-tier, but someone who's gotten over his learning curve (which most people don't care to do) and knows his strengths/weaknesses against all the characters can make him look high tier, easily.

example: http://youtube.com/watch?v=UnRMRSMZuCI
Yoshi v Marth

fear the tail wag.

 

[Griffard]

i really like gindler's list. yoshi should be a little lower, not going to lie. there are a few amazing players for every char, but yoshi is much harder to make as good as other chars

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

Your list is good, except R.O.B shouldn't be that high.

 

[Phazon_Dude]

I'm going to repost my list and I would like to also say.. SAMUS IS NOT BAD! ..I just couldn't put my favorite character as low tier.. Wow, its funny how Snake came from people thinking he is the worst to now where he is considered high-top.

TOP
Pit
Marth
Meta-Knight
Toon Link
Wolf
Falco

___

HIGH
Fox
Diddy Kong
Olimar
Snake
Pikachu
King Dedede
Zero Suit Samus
Lucas
Zelda
Mr.Game and Watch

___

MID
R.O.B
Ike
Lucario
Mario
Luigi
Ness
Kirby
Pokemon Trainer
Ice Climbers
Samus

___

LOW
Sonic
Peach
Captain Falcon
Sheik
Wario
Jigglypuff
Link
DK

___

BOTTOM
Bowser
Ganondorf
Yoshi

 

[hizzlum]

The top tier that phazon has is pretty well done. Those characters will all probably be in the top/top high tiers and some of those in the high tier may climb up but it all come down to tournies

 

[furyberserk]

Sheiks fair can kill at 100%-120% if you tip it like anyother characters. Just depends on the opponents weight and the stage length that determines the kill. Shieks Up B seems more easily to land if the opponent is recovering and is going above you.

I don't understand why people think Fox sucks more now than the last game. His attacks are faster, though his style seems worse like the firefox's length and other things, but the wavedash wasn't what made him top, it was his unlimited combos, which he still has more of than anyother character.

 

[super_bacon807]

Fox is MUCH worse in Brawl than in Melee, but I still think he has the potential to rise in the tiers and become top dog once again.

 

[tsl]

Why are there so many f*cking noobs in this thread? We need to sticky this thread as the epitome of epic fail.

 

[WaffleJesse]

This game is incredible even, at this point any character can beat anyother