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That'd explain the complete oversight on his part. He hasn't posted again yet....that's enough picking on him though
your an idiot. for one, kill % isnt the only thing that matters quite obviously, many samus attacks got boosted, zair is godly, and btw, dtilt alone kills jiggs at 105% and like 10 others at 110-115%
and fsmash is better and her dair has more range soz.. Your post totally emasculated all that is grammar.your an idiot. for one, kill % isnt the only thing that matters quite obviously, many samus attacks got boosted, zair is godly, and btw, dtilt alone kills jiggs at 105% and like 10 others at 110-115%
So please STFU???
This is a very good argument. Realistically the best percent anyone can really kill at in this game is at like 80%.
All of the people with recent join dates unite under one leader =P Rob is top tier, he can camp arguably the best, he has weight, easy to kill, and can WoP foes into oblivion without a sweat (say hello to 35% kills wolf and olimar =P)
..........wha.......??????? Bdawg why? whay say things like this...... we need to get your to some tournaments fast.That'd explain the complete oversight on his part. He hasn't posted again yet....that's enough picking on him though
Everyone says Olimar for top tier, and I think people with good spacing and camping will do him that justice, despite having such a not so hot recovery. Bowser will be high tier somewhere, just because of raw power and range and priority and speed. ROB will be high up on the general list, possibly top tier, but definitely near the top of high tier at the least.
I'm not so sure about Sonic, just because it depends heavily on who has the patience to go a full match without being predictable. But he doesn't have a lot of range and priority, so speed will only help him if he makes people mess up....he is just fast enough to punish everyone except, say, Pikachu.
EDIT: I hope you were asking me XD
......your an idiot. for one, kill % isnt the only thing that matters quite obviously, many samus attacks got boosted, zair is godly, and btw, dtilt alone kills jiggs at 105% and like 10 others at 110-115%
So please STFU???
Why? There are still God character, good characters, and crap characters. There are just 10 (more after you include alternate like trainer, etc.) more character to add in. You still have your non-playables like Yoshi and your **** monsters like Marth. That reeks of tiers.
i've been killed by a samus at around 80% with a d-smash
The reason I want to put Lucario in high tier at best is because he has a very very sharp learning curve, and can only be played effectively by people with a patient and defense-oriented mindset. That is, he's not a character that anyone can pick up and be good with. He has the TOOLS to take on just about any character in the game evenly. He has trouble with Olimar and Toon Link and possibly one or two of the space animals, but a lot of people will flail around with Lucario and decide he's weak.
I'd like to think it's about match ups, but unfortunately, if a character isn't popular, they're not going to be played in tourneys very much, and there will be less people who win with them, which seems to effect the tier list. It did in Melee.
lolwut?
Well this is probably the second closest list I've seen to what the public community would decide on for the current metagame tiers. Of course, this isn't what the tier list will be in a year because of the obvious things that most people are disregarding. That in turn is why I think this is so accurate as to what it would be if the masses decided on one RIGHT NOW!
Yes, by about 80%, Lucario's two most commonly used moves (Ftit and Dair) both will deal around 15% apiece, and his smashes will all be doing around the 20%s, and his Fthrow, Double Team hit and Force Palm grab become KO moves.
However, it doesn't have a double hitbox that stays out for much much longer and eats at shields. You really need to have seen what a good Lucario player does with Aura spheres to realise just how good they are. The main thing about Aura spheres is that they travel slowly, have large hitboxes even uncharged, and Lucario can move before they reach the target. Even if you jab them, he can often use that minor moment of immobility to close in. And Aura spheres become even more useful at limiting aerial movement, since you don't exactly want to shorthop into them. If you don't have a reflector, you're either going to hit them, roll around them, or jump, all are things which Lucario can use to his advantage.
Lucario actually has about the same killing power as Metaknight when he's at 0%, and by the time he's at 50% or more, he has more killing power. He also gains an aura boost if he's behind by a stock. Most Lucario players will tell you that it's actually not that hard staying alive at 100% and above thanks to Lucario's excellent defensive game. His gimpability only really comes into effect when facing characters who have attacks that fling you off at a low angle, like Lucas and his PSI Magnet. He also has an excellent over-the edge game, allowing him to KO a lot earlier than he should. Seriously, backthrow ends so soon that on an opponent in their 60s or 70s you can practically jump out and intercept your opponent with a Fair while they're in the middle of their second jump, double jump backwards while rapidly doing Fairs just in case your opponent tries to follow you with an Up B of sorts, and then extremespeed back and hog the ledge. And Lucario's backthrow and down throw aren't effected by his aura. He also edgeguards very well with his Dair.
I agree, but for some silly reason, it doesn't work like that. If it had have been that way in Melee, Ness would have been much higher up on the tier list, but everybody just figured he sucked and nobody bothered to really play him, despite how great his evasive and aerial game was.
It's got more range and priority than Ness's Fair, which is pretty impressive for such a wimpy looking kick. And the startup on his ftilt is pretty minor, since the attack itself is very very safe and has huge range and power for what it does.
He doesn't have trouble with either of these. He gains killing power at 60% and up, which is a pretty average amount to have by the time you're wanting to KO your opponent, and his evasion and defense are so good that he isn't going to be eating KO moves very commonly if the player knows what they're doing.
There isn't enough lag on Ftilt for them do that, and there's shield stun from two hits, meaning a double pushback. At the most, it'll put both you and Lucario at a stalemate if shielded, meaning he could very well shield your next attack or dodge it.
The only counter-style move in Brawl that can't be stuffed on activtion is Wolf's reflector. Lucario's double team has some interesting properties vs. projectiles, and it also has the most KO power of any counter-style move in the game. At 100%, this move is almost as powerful as Jigglypuff's rest. And at that %, the opponent will be trying for KO moves and approaches instead of jabs that are hard to see coming.
He doesn't use a grab to start his chain grabs. He uses an AA combo, followed by a Force Palm, which has a lot more range than his normal grab. His normal grab's range isn't too shabby either. And yes, they've been tested multiple times. Against Snake, it's almost a guaranteed 80% unless you trip. And it can do even more since it leads into an aerial chase (running grab, down throw, fair fair fair etc.) Lucario's Fair is so fast that even if you air dodge it, he can still hit you with another one as the air dodge I-frames wear out.
He has a reliable 90% combo on Snake so long as his own % is below 50. And it works better on Snake than any other character. He can even juggle Snake to 40% using his Utilt alone, because Snake's aerials are so slow. What more could you ask for? And he runs circles around him too and majorly beats him out in the air, and aura sphere cancels thrown grenades and whatnot. He has more range than Metaknight and his aura builds up greatly in this matchup before he can be KOed and he has a projectile, he can close in on ROB with ease and keep him busy with fast aerials. Both of Rob's projectiles can be double teamed on reaction if you're paying attention, except for a thrown Gyromite. I would say he has trouble with Toon Link but not Wolf, since Wolf doesn't have great KO power and his recovery is easy enough to gimp, which is something Lucario is good at.
Most people think that Marth is in the Top tier rank though it would seem.
Well as I said before, I think character popularity will prevent Lucario from ever being in the top tier. Azen is just a good player, so he could get away with that. And yeah, he appears to have trouble killing at first, until you learn that Lucario should be killing with moves that aren't smash attacks for more reliable KOes.
What is there to "report," the tiers havn't been decided yet... :O
The metagame is advancing too quickly right now for this kind of debate. The tier list is determined by tournament results which we have too few of right now. And any theoretical tier list is constantly changing. Even if we were to all agree on one now, it will be different within a month.
