Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[ChronoPenguin]

You can discuss anyone as long as you want, it's a Tier discussion so if you want to discuss someones position do so, how long that discussion takes is due to people ****ing around and not being serious most of the time.

It's also annoying me how slow some boards are to get their match ups up, even if it's crude the individual perspectives of each board intrigues me so.

Bottom tier is really looking like it's going to be

Bottom:
Ganondorf
Falcon

or
Falcon
Ganondorf.

add Link,Sheik, or Jigglypuff if they start slipping.

Still lol'ing at dark spartan, first he talks about how someone can't type when he's been typing poorly for a long period of time. Then it turns out he's talking to a signature >.>



Meta Knight (62 top8, 45 top4, 20 top2, 36 wins) - 1315.8

2 Snake (44 top8, 34 top4, 21 top2, 23 wins) - 1011.2

A Rank <Overused>
3 King Dedede (31 top8, 22 top4, 12 top2, 10 wins) - 405.9 - 4
3 Mr. Game & Watch (33 top8, 24 top4, 8 top2, 10 wins) - 366.9
3 Marth (36 top8, 22 top4, 13 top2, 5 wins) - 354.4 - 6
3 Wario (7 top8, 5 top4, 5 top2, 10 wins) - 335.0 - 5

7 Falco (28 top8, 9 top4, 12 top2, 4 wins) - 285.8 - 8

B Rank <Standard>
8 Lucario (13 top8, 10 top4, 5 top2, 3 wins) - 237.7 - 7
8 ROB (30 top8, 12 top4, 7 top2, 3 wins) - 224.3 - 11
8 Diddy Kong (19 top8, 7 top4, 8 top2, 2 wins) - 218.5 - 9

11 Donkey Kong (11 top8, 10 top4, 3 top2, 8 wins) - 177.4 - 10

12 Kirby (14 top8, 7 top4, 5 top2, 3 wins) - 152.2

13 Pikachu (9 top8, 7 top4, 3 top2, 5 wins) - 127.9

C Rank <Borderline>
14 Olimar (18 top8, 9 top4, 2 top2, 1 win) - 109.9 - 15
14 Ice Climbers (10 top8, 9 top4, 2 top2, 7 wins) - 101.2
14 Pit (8 top8, 5 top4, 3 top2, 1 wins) - 92.8 - 16

17 Wolf (21 top8, 5 top4, 3 top2, 3 wins) - 80.0
17 Zero Suit Samus (9 top8, 5 top4, 1 top2, 1 win) - 76.9 - 18
17 Peach (8 top8, 4 top4, 2 top2, 3 wins) - 76.0

D Rank <Underused>
20 Ike (4 top8, 3 top4, 1 top2, 1 win)- 53.1
20 Fox (10 top8, 3 top4, 1 top2, 3 wins) - 51.9 - 22

22 Sonic (4 top8, 2 top4, 1 win) - 45.1- 21
22 Lucas (7 top8, 1 top4, 1 win) - 43.9 - 23

24 Pokémon Trainer (3 top8, 1 top4, 1 top2, 1 win) - 30.3
24 Toon Link (14 top8, 1 top4, 1 win) - 27.7 - 26

E Rank <Never Used>
26 Mario (7 top8, 2 top4) - 24.1 - 35
26 Jigglypuff (1 top4) - 21.8 - 25
26 Zelda/Sheik (4 top8, 3 top4, 1 top2) - 19.8 - 29
26 Sheik (6 top8, 2 top4, 1 win) - 19.3 - 27
26 Zelda (6 top8, 1 top4, 1 top2) - 18.6 - 28
26 Yoshi (10 top8, 2 top4) - 18.1 - 33
26 Bowser (1 top8, 2 top4, 1 win) - 17.6 - 30
26 Ness (8 top8, 1 top4) - 17.1 - 31

34 Link (1 top8, 1 top4) - 12.3 - 32
34 Samus (6 top8) - 12.3
34 Luigi (5 top8, 1 top2, 1 win) - 12.2 - 36

37 Ganondorf (1 top8, 1 top4, 1 top2) - 4.9

38 Captain Falcon (2 top8) - 2.0


if we are consistant with this on each players "metagame"
Yoshi is the 8th slot from the bottom Zelda above Yoshi.
=P

 

[viparagon]

You can discuss anyone as long as you want, it's a Tier discussion so if you want to discuss someones position do so, how long that discussion takes is due to people ****ing around and not being serious most of the time.

It's also annoying me how slow some boards are to get their match ups up, even if it's crude the individual perspectives of each board intrigues me so.

Bottom tier is really looking like it's going to be

Bottom:
Ganondorf
Falcon

or
Falcon
Ganondorf.

add Link,Yoshi, or Jigglypuff if they start slipping.

Still lol'ing at dark spartan, first he talks about how someone can't type when he's been typing poorly for a long period of time. Then it turns out he's talking to a signature >.>

fix'd
10char

 

[~ Gheb ~]

There's no way, Sheik is going to be bottom tier. She's lower mid tier material imo. I assume that mid is gonna be huge...

 

[darkspatan117]

Still lol'ing at dark spartan, first he talks about how someone can't type when he's been typing poorly for a long period of time. Then it turns out he's talking to a signature >.>



Meta Knight (62 top8, 45 top4, 20 top2, 36 wins) - 1315.8

2 Snake (44 top8, 34 top4, 21 top2, 23 wins) - 1011.2

A Rank <Overused>
3 King Dedede (31 top8, 22 top4, 12 top2, 10 wins) - 405.9 - 4
3 Mr. Game & Watch (33 top8, 24 top4, 8 top2, 10 wins) - 366.9
3 Marth (36 top8, 22 top4, 13 top2, 5 wins) - 354.4 - 6
3 Wario (7 top8, 5 top4, 5 top2, 10 wins) - 335.0 - 5

7 Falco (28 top8, 9 top4, 12 top2, 4 wins) - 285.8 - 8

B Rank <Standard>
8 Lucario (13 top8, 10 top4, 5 top2, 3 wins) - 237.7 - 7
8 ROB (30 top8, 12 top4, 7 top2, 3 wins) - 224.3 - 11
8 Diddy Kong (19 top8, 7 top4, 8 top2, 2 wins) - 218.5 - 9

11 Donkey Kong (11 top8, 10 top4, 3 top2, 8 wins) - 177.4 - 10

12 Kirby (14 top8, 7 top4, 5 top2, 3 wins) - 152.2

13 Pikachu (9 top8, 7 top4, 3 top2, 5 wins) - 127.9

C Rank <Borderline>
14 Olimar (18 top8, 9 top4, 2 top2, 1 win) - 109.9 - 15
14 Ice Climbers (10 top8, 9 top4, 2 top2, 7 wins) - 101.2
14 Pit (8 top8, 5 top4, 3 top2, 1 wins) - 92.8 - 16

17 Wolf (21 top8, 5 top4, 3 top2, 3 wins) - 80.0
17 Zero Suit Samus (9 top8, 5 top4, 1 top2, 1 win) - 76.9 - 18
17 Peach (8 top8, 4 top4, 2 top2, 3 wins) - 76.0

D Rank <Underused>
20 Ike (4 top8, 3 top4, 1 top2, 1 win)- 53.1
20 Fox (10 top8, 3 top4, 1 top2, 3 wins) - 51.9 - 22

22 Sonic (4 top8, 2 top4, 1 win) - 45.1- 21
22 Lucas (7 top8, 1 top4, 1 win) - 43.9 - 23

24 Pokémon Trainer (3 top8, 1 top4, 1 top2, 1 win) - 30.3
24 Toon Link (14 top8, 1 top4, 1 win) - 27.7 - 26

E Rank <Never Used>
26 Mario (7 top8, 2 top4) - 24.1 - 35
26 Jigglypuff (1 top4) - 21.8 - 25
26 Zelda/Sheik (4 top8, 3 top4, 1 top2) - 19.8 - 29
26 Sheik (6 top8, 2 top4, 1 win) - 19.3 - 27
26 Zelda (6 top8, 1 top4, 1 top2) - 18.6 - 28
26 Yoshi (10 top8, 2 top4) - 18.1 - 33
26 Bowser (1 top8, 2 top4, 1 win) - 17.6 - 30
26 Ness (8 top8, 1 top4) - 17.1 - 31

34 Link (1 top8, 1 top4) - 12.3 - 32
34 Samus (6 top8) - 12.3
34 Luigi (5 top8, 1 top2, 1 win) - 12.2 - 36

37 Ganondorf (1 top8, 1 top4, 1 top2) - 4.9

38 Captain Falcon (2 top8) - 2.0


Hey that Ankoku characters ranking thread and ChronoPenguin I can type I'm just too lazy to check if I made error in my post

 

[darkspatan117]

First of all, darkspartan needs to slow down >_>.

Secondly, the main discussion in this topic will now focus on Samus. So I, Deathcarter, decree.

People need to realize Samus has potential. Now there are few characters definitively below her (CF, Ganon, Link, Jiggs, and maybe Mama Luigi) but she is not bottom tier. Most of her matchups as of now consist of neutrals and slight disadvantages with some odd advantages here and there, so the Samus player has a good chance at winning a non G&W, MK, Falco (when not on Battlefield), Olimar, DDD, Pikachu, Yoshi matchup when he is better than his opponent. I am confident that Samus will move up somewhat as the Samus players become better.

Plus, her zair is better than G&W's bair imo. Too bad nothing else about her is.

People never use her for her low killing power but she's good

 

[ROOOOY!]

I can't see Samus' potential. I'm not saying it's not there, I'm just saying I can't see it.
And Sheik won't be bottom either, but more than likely in low.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Samus...well she can camp and has a great zair...otherwise there isn't too much good to say about her, I guess

 

[Gindler]

Her Zair is ridiculously annoying, even more than Link's although it only does 4 instead of 10 damage. She gives snake trouble which is good enough for me. and you forgot about her awesome Dair, that's how I get most of my kills when I'm using her anyway.

 

[darkspatan117]

don't forget all of her aerial auto cancel that mean she has awesome combo good projectile great recovery and she is a heavyweight

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I think she might have potential, I think people need to drag it out though.

 

[Bowser King]

She has potential but at the moment, I don't see it being used.

 

[Gindler]

ALL of her aerials autocancel? Wow, no wonder the two good samus' I've seen combo so well. Yeah she's going underused just because they severely nerfed her best move (charge shot of course). Monster Fair btw it's a shame alot of decent to good characters go underused or not used at all.

 

[Kiwikomix]

You know who has potential?
JIGGZ.
First we'll all have to get over the fact that no one uses her, and therefore every aspect of here game is lacking.
Second, we'll all have to realize that since Brawl is an air-based game, shouldn't Jiggz be ruling the skies just like she did in Melee? Bair now has good range and is fantastic for shield poking/pressure, and fair is actually a KO move.
Thirdly, we'll have to deal with the fact that, since Brawl is a camping game, Jiggz has two things that really help her out: a small hitbox and a great crouch. These things combined should mean that she can avoid most projectile spams if she's patient. If she's impatient, her bair is still a good approach and her air speed is still good enough that she doesn't give much warning when she's going to attack.
Unfortunately, due to Jiggz' bad matchups where it matters most, she'll likely only be used as a counterpick character at this stage.

Thoughts? I know it's weird to see a WoT that's not Yoshi-related.

 

[gantrain05]

don't forget all of her aerial auto cancel that mean she has awesome combo good projectile great recovery and she is a heavyweight

you know who else has all autocancelled arials and is better than spamus? peach^^

 

[darkspatan117]

with float yeah but we're talking about samus not peach

 

[Pieisthebest]

you know who else has all autocancelled arials and is better than spamus? peach^^

^that

10peachiswin

 

[gantrain05]

with float yeah but we're talking about samus not peach

even w/out float they autocancel, if you play your cards right peach has an unpunishable Fair into jab/Ftilt/Dsmash/Roll/or Sidestep, not to mention you can shield poke with her Fair.

 

[darkspatan117]

You know who has potential?
JIGGZ.
First we'll all have to get over the fact that no one uses her, and therefore every aspect of here game is lacking.
Second, we'll all have to realize that since Brawl is an air-based game, shouldn't Jiggz be ruling the skies just like she did in Melee? Bair now has good range and is fantastic for shield poking/pressure, and fair is actually a KO move.
Thirdly, we'll have to deal with the fact that, since Brawl is a camping game, Jiggz has two things that really help her out: a small hitbox and a great crouch. These things combined should mean that she can avoid most projectile spams if she's patient. If she's impatient, her bair is still a good approach and her air speed is still good enough that she doesn't give much warning when she's going to attack.
Unfortunately, due to Jiggz' bad matchups where it matters most, she'll likely only be used as a counterpick character at this stage.

Thoughts? I know it's weird to see a WoT that's not Yoshi-related.

I know she is bottom low still she has the same promblem as Cf in term of nerf since brawl lack of hitstun the WOP is not as effective as before also note that all her aerial are nerfed except fair&dair her throws are less useful now if you want my opinoin Kirby does the job more than Jigg in this game

 

[Blad01]

In France, we have a user of Samus : Gemini. He's pretty good, but doesn't go so much in tournaments....

The only video i can show of him is a Double Grand Finals in June (but we improved a lot from this time).
> http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=BQQVx9A_86Q&feature=PlayList&p=9903E07D1570CDCE&index=5
[EDIT: Yeah... I ****ed up theses rounds, i know]


He's the only person i know who makes me think that Samus could maybe be high tier. (Or at least middle, but certainly not low)

 

[darkspatan117]

even w/out float they autocancel, if you play your cards right peach has an unpunishable Fair into jab/Ftilt/Dsmash/Roll/or Sidestep, not to mention you can shield poke with her Fair.

same with samus FF up aerial to screw attack and zair to fsmash nair to dtilt or even fair to usmash and more

 

[cj.Shark]

Pit- Pits Tier is probably High. m2k said he was maybe around Marth tier but i disagree.
Pit is a character with alot of strengths. (arguably the best longrange game), Strong matchups (or atleast better than most) vs snake,dedede rob.. Lots of High tier characters, Impressive ATs, infact His arrow control almost merits his tier (imagine Pro Pits in 3 years). However Pit has one GLARING wearkness a weakness so huge he might never get out of C rank in the character rankings list. ands thats metaknight, The most tourney abundant character. Ive lost to Metanights Thats just spam the nado and downsmash while beating snakes 3x as good. its a sucky sucky matchup.

oh and yoshi, and DK and GNW users. Dont kid yourelf The sooner you guys admit that Metanight has an advantage over every character in the game the sooner we can see him banned Hopefully.

 

[darkspatan117]

Pit for me is below Olimar for high tier but above DK and Bowser

 

[gantrain05]

same with samus FF up aerial to screw attack and zair to fsmash nair to dtilt or even fair to usmash and more

except FF Uair has no priority and samus doesn't move too quick in the air and is easy to see coming, and Fair to Usmash doesn't work due to the startup lag on the Usmash. and peaches Dair is so much more combolicious, not to mention you can look up her dress with her Ftilt.

 

[missingnomaster]

Pit- Pits Tier is probably High. m2k said he was maybe around Marth tier but i disagree.
Pit is a character with alot of strengths. (arguably the best longrange game), Strong matchups (or atleast better than most) vs snake,dedede rob.. Lots of High tier characters, Impressive ATs, infact His arrow control almost merits his tier (imagine Pro Pits in 3 years). However Pit has one GLARING wearkness a weakness so huge he might never get out of C rank in the character rankings list. ands thats metaknight, The most tourney abundant character. Ive lost to Metanights Thats just spam the nado and downsmash while beating snakes 3x as good. its a sucky sucky matchup.

oh and yoshi, and DK and GNW users. Dont kid yourelf The sooner you guys admit that Metanight has an advantage over every character in the game the sooner we can see him banned Hopefully.

Metaknight won't be banned unless he becomes the only character that places in tournaments. Even then he might not be.

Yoshi's chain grab to spike is pretty sweet.

 

[jiovanni007]

I know she is bottom low still she has the same promblem as Cf in term of nerf since brawl lack of hitstun the WOP is not as effective as before also note that all her aerial are nerfed except fair&dair her throws are less useful now if you want my opinoin Kirby does the job more than Jigg in this game

True enough, but you still need some punctuation. Kirby actually has a decent ground game, but Jiggs does have the better aerial kill in her fair. Kirby's bair can kill, but it isn't surprisingly strong and is usually stale since its one of his best approaches as it can shield poke. I'm still very unsure about where Jiggs will go in the future. Sure Brawl is an aerial game, but ground characters know how to stay on the ground. The only way Kirby can beat Snake is by keeping him in the air and that is by no means an easy task.

So what MK is broken, so was Fox in Melee and there was still diversity in the meta game. Brawl will still take time as we figure out how to beat him. All character don't have terrible matches against him, heck even the match against Kirby isn't that hard. We (Kirby community) agreed 55-45 MK was a very good decision. MK is and will always be predictable, you just have to figure out how the MK player plays and counter accordingly.

 

[darkspatan117]

except FF Uair has no priority and samus doesn't move too quick in the air and is easy to see coming, and Fair to Usmash doesn't work due to the startup lag on the Usmash. and peaches Dair is so much more combolicious, not to mention you can look up her dress with her Ftilt.

Peach is good but she probably mid tier I didn't know her aerial AUTO CANCELLED but i just tested it and hit work wonderfully

 

[gantrain05]

hrmm, well if the meta plays a defensive game against your kirby, you are pretty much screwed over, and its not too hard for meta to stay just in range for his Dtilt or Fair, i don't know about the 45-55MK, i don't play either character, but i've seen them both played a lot, but even if it only is 45-55 in a tournament, your 1 kirby will probably have to beat 2-3 metas just to win the thing anyway, so those odds turn against u more than u think.

 

[Jump_Man]

MK is beatable, which means he won't be banned, and, imo, he will never be banned. But besides that, yeah, Pit should be high tier.

 

[darkspatan117]

MK is the best char in this game he hardly have bad matchup that why people want to ban him

 

[Chaco]

Plus Yoshi has the secret weapon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1kCfKrsTUs

 

[~ Gheb ~]

^ Big deal???

 

[darkspatan117]

what the cg is atrocious and release to spike is maybe air dodged out of it need more testing

 

[Chaco]

^ Big deal???

It could be very big since that's not even close to full speed. =D

 

[gantrain05]

its just foxtrotting, but with yoshi? at least thats what it looked like to me, maybe if you applied it in an actual match.

 

[Skyflyer]

Pit- Pits Tier is probably High. m2k said he was maybe around Marth tier but i disagree.
Pit is a character with alot of strengths. (arguably the best longrange game), Strong matchups (or atleast better than most) vs snake,dedede rob.. Lots of High tier characters, Impressive ATs, infact His arrow control almost merits his tier (imagine Pro Pits in 3 years). However Pit has one GLARING wearkness a weakness so huge he might never get out of C rank in the character rankings list. ands thats metaknight, The most tourney abundant character. Ive lost to Metanights Thats just spam the nado and downsmash while beating snakes 3x as good. its a sucky sucky matchup.

oh and yoshi, and DK and GNW users. Dont kid yourelf The sooner you guys admit that Metanight has an advantage over every character in the game the sooner we can see him banned Hopefully.

Oh look, we have another fool who wants MK banned. Get over it.

http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Akuma#Gameplay

There is says no other character could "never ever ever" beat akuma. If smash wiki says that about MK and actually keeps it there then he'd be bannable. MK won't be banned because he's beat able. M2K has lost in tourneys with MK a few times. That proves he is beatable.

 

[darkspatan117]

Well it possible but every one who wanted to win in street fighter 2 turbo took Akuma and become Akuma vs Akuma maybe that what we will see in Brawl everyone will take MK

 

[Chaco]

its just foxtrotting, but with yoshi? at least thats what it looked like to me, maybe if you applied it in an actual match.

Not fox trotting, it's fox trot into DR cancel which makes it alot faster and moves can be used out of it.

 

[Chaco]

its just foxtrotting, but with yoshi? at least thats what it looked like to me, maybe if you applied it in an actual match.

No, it's not, it's foxtrot to DR cancel. Waaay better than just FTing it's capabilites are alot better.

 

[Morrigan]

^ what the hell lol

 

[darkspatan117]

he state that yosh can have dash by fox troting and canceling is second jump he said also in his thread that it make him the 2nd fastest char in the game >_<