Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[darkspatan117]

MMac you're right it pressure a lot well the grab release to spike are good but you should recheck them try to air dodge out of it if Someone take Wario I Know who to pick

 

[Mmac]

You guys are really not helping the situation here.... >_>

MMac you're right it pressure a lot well the grab release to spike are good but you should recheck them try to air dodge out of it if Someone take Wario I Know who to pick

They've all been tested, they all work.

Yoshi is low tier. Luigi is low mid. Luigi's tournament results will pick up. Yoshi's probably won't.

Yeah....... Sorry, but you are an idiot.

Yoshi has been proved to both have better Tournament Results AND Matchup's than Luigi. Popularity should never be a factor in Tier Lists, or else Ike and Falcon will destroy everybody. He's not going to explode on the completive scene and probably never will unless you find something that makes him outstanding

I can't multiquote because I suck.

Not that hard, all you had to do is remember the "/"

 

[Chaco]

You guys are really not helping the situation here.... >_>

Sorry Mmac.

But moing along.

@Roy: I can't see Luigi pickig up anymore than Yoshi could. Were what almost 6 months into Brawl, and he doesn't have great results either. But really, we shouldn't even be griping about tiers until atleast a year in. Then you can compare things over a wider span, not just ***** about MK having over 1000 points and some chars in the teens and below.

 

[Kiwikomix]

We've actually stopped whining, for the most part, because you aren't putting Yoshi in bottom anymore. At this point we only jump on people when they say stuff that's just completely wrong, usually something we've already said a billion times. It's far more aggravating for us to have to spell it out for you over and over than for you have to read (or not read) it all.
In other words, don't start a Yoshi argument if you don't want a Yoshi argument. I'd love to share my opinions on other characters, so don't give me a reason to ***** at you, and then you won't have a reason to ***** at me. Capisce?

Now, as Chaco says, "moing along"...

I have a bad feeling that Luigi isn't going to get very far in tournaments until MK becomes less prevalent. Since that's not going to be the case for a very long time, I suggest that he is moved to low temporarily. If you're going to put every other character with poor results down there, consider tourney results as a whole rather than picking and choosing which characters you'll allow them to affect.

 

[darkspatan117]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikafan8269297
pickachu is teh best charactor evar becuase al u do is pres down b and no one can kil u
if dey shiit ther lasers or arows den u jump bcus pikachu is super fast chractr guy.
plus he can shut lightning out of hid cheeeck so he amkes you zaped
then u al git uberpwned by his sid a

but pikuchu has super gud b dawn attack and den metnite gets rly rly pwned and then pikchu maks him ded

First of all learn how to write because your ****ing stupid pikachu is a very good char but far from the best and Newb like you spamming down b get almost one shot ko by a Game&Watch Oil panic or Heal Ness &Lucas For a lot of % So don't think pika the best because you found an ultra spammable move

 

[ROOOOY!]

@Roy: I can't see Luigi pickig up anymore than Yoshi could. Were what almost 6 months into Brawl, and he doesn't have great results either. But really, we shouldn't even be griping about tiers until atleast a year in. Then you can compare things over a wider span, not just ***** about MK having over 1000 points and some chars in the teens and below.

I'm only saying that because he has a lot potential than any of the percieved low/bottom tiers, and wrecks almost all of them match-up wise.
And we should be griping about tiers lol. It's the Tier Discussion thread. What else would we discuss in here?
And are you implying that people will catch up to MK? Because they won't. And those points around the lower levels aren't going to rise much. There will be a little shifting about among the lower groups but I don't think any one character is going to dramatically climb out of there.

And that comment above made me cry.

And Mmac..dude, no need to call anyone an idiot. Just because I think some characters meta game will develop and so will become a more tourney viable character isn't really a justification to call me stupid.

 

[jiovanni007]

Do you have any idea what you just said? Basically all I heard from this is "I am good and destroyed some random Yoshi, therefore, he sucks"

I 3 Stocked a Snake Yesterday, and Twice again 3 Days ago. ZOMG SNAKE IS GARBAGE TIER!

You can't just judge one character on a single experience, and proclaim that as fact. From what I heard, this Yoshi doesn't sound that good.



Yet, you Completely ignore this:



So... If it comes to Yoshi, Tournament Rankings, It's pretty much the Primary Weight that is 100% keeping him in Bottom Tier, but it somehow doesn't affect character like Luigi even though he's doing WORSE?

I'll say it again, Either be consistent with the Results, or just drop the entire thing altogether!

Edits: Chaingrabbing isn't about damage, but gaining control of the match. Think of it as like Sumo Wrestling.

And for the guys who been *****ing about Yoshi Mains, Did you noticed that there hasn't been a Yoshi main in this thread for 4 Hours!

Except for Gindler, but all he said was "I think Kirby is hard for Yoshi"

You actually completely misread what I said, I openly admitted that I may have been a bit biased since I destroyed him because of my own skill. The whole Luigi wasn't a double standard, he's been sucking in tournaments so I assumed he was in low tier. IMO potential shouldn't be taken into so much when making tier lists. Luigi is ranked bottom in tourney standings but is widely agreed to be mid-mid to high-mid wtf??? Yoshi also doesn't do well in tournaments and doesn't have the best of movesets. As far as the Kirby match-up against Yoshi goes, I still think its even in all cases. Yoshi has uair and usmash that kills Kirby off of the ceiling easily which is what we fear most since the hammer doesn't work much. He won't build damage as fast, but is on the heavy side which balances that out. I still don't buy Yoshi being any higher than bottom. His moveset is not that great.

Edit: darkspatan please use periods and commas

 

[Kiwikomix]

Darkspatan:
You just debated a signature.

 

[darkspatan117]

lol i didn't know but the one that was writing it was a ****ing noob

 

[Pubik Vengeance]

Yeah....... Sorry, but you are an idiot.

Yoshi has been proved to both have better Tournament Results AND Matchup's than Luigi. Popularity should never be a factor in Tier Lists, or else Ike and Falcon will destroy everybody. He's not going to explode on the completive scene and probably never will unless you find something that makes him outstanding

If all you do is talk about Yoshi, and I assume you have played Yoshi for a long time, why do you even care if he is higher then low tier? And you shouldn't call people idiots for predicting what will happen unless it is completely ridiculous. His prediction is pretty much just as likely as yours. If someone predicted Toon Link, Ike and Pit would be no higher then middle tier 5 days after the game was released they might sound like an idiot too.

 

[Gindler]

Except for Gindler, but all he said was "I think Kirby is hard for Yoshi"

Sorry Mmac, I ruined it



Just thought I'd point out, I really don't know what I'm complaining about. Yoshi was "garbage tier" in melee but I still played as him, he could be the worst in the game with major disadvantages in every single matchup and I'd probably still do decent. Idk, i just realized that.

 

[Chaco]

I agree Roy, realistically I think it's a struggle for Yoshi to grasp low tier.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I agree Roy, realistically I think it's a struggle for Yoshi to grasp low tier.

Nah he's very comfortably low tier. I don't think I've said anything that makes it seem I think he's any lower.

 

[Mmac]

You actually completely misread what I said, I openly admitted that I may have been a bit biased since I destroyed him because of my own skill.

Ah... well I'm just mad, and sometimes when I'm mad, I just don't thnk. Sorry. I still don;t think that Yoshi is good. As I explained, theres tons of people who know about AT's, but can't play the character worth crap.

The whole Luigi wasn't a double standard, he's been sucking in tournaments so I assumed he was in low tier. IMO potential shouldn't be taken into so much when making tier lists. Luigi is ranked bottom in tourney standings but is widely agreed to be mid-mid to high-mid wtf???

It still doesn't make sense that people continue to say that Tournament Results is a heavy influence on characters in a Tier List, but it just seems like when it comes to everyone except Yoshi, then it doesn't exist. We get pissed off because we feel like we're being targeted and attack constantly, and we can't really stand for it. No matter what we do, nobody will give a crap unless they have good tournament results, but I don't see anyone else having this problem

Yoshi also doesn't do well in tournaments and doesn't have the best of movesets. As far as the Kirby match-up against Yoshi goes, I still think its even in all cases. Yoshi has uair and usmash that kills Kirby off of the ceiling easily which is what we fear most since the hammer doesn't work much. He won't build damage as fast, but is on the heavy side which balances that out. I still don't buy Yoshi being any higher than bottom. His moveset is not that great.

I think his moveset is actually rather good, but it maybe alittle biased on my part. Yoshi not building damage well is probably the final nail in that Yoshi wasn't good. Yoshi is probably one of the better characters at collecting damage with Bair Combos, Autocanceled Dair Combos, and a Good Long-Range/Anti-Camp/Anti-Air Projectiles. He can gather damage very fast if he knows what he is doing, and/or if you are careless. The main problem is that he has trouble KO'ing some people. That and his poor Shield Game are probably his only primary weakness's he has.

If all you do is talk about Yoshi, and I assume you have played Yoshi for a long time, why do you even care if he is higher then low tier? And you shouldn't call people idiots for predicting what will happen unless it is completely ridiculous. His prediction is pretty much just as likely as yours. If someone predicted Toon Link, Ike and Pit would be no higher then middle tier 5 days after the game was released they might sound like an idiot too.

Yeah, Idiot isn't the best word to use there. Sorry. I'm just bothered because Luigi hasn't improved much at all in the past months, but people still believe that he will eventually become a high ranking character.

I'm personally not bothered on where Yoshi is, as long as he's not bottom. However, that the problem. Most people are, and believe so. I really don't like to be ridiculed for using one of the worst characters in the game (Which I explained multiple times, he is NOWHERE near that caliber). That's why I'm bothered. I'm not bothered because he isn't super ultra mega uber L337 9001 Cookie Tier, but because people treat him like he's just as bad as Falcon/Ganondorf, or even worse.

 

[Chaco]

Nah he's very comfortably low tier. I don't think I've said anything that makes it seem I think he's any lower.

Well, good I can push it some then, it's possible he reaches mid realistically i think it is. You want reasons I'll go the distance and write a maaaaasssive thing on it.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Well, good I can push it some then, it's possible he reaches mid realistically i think it is. You want reasons I'll go the distance and write a maaaaasssive thing on it.

Wouldn't want to trouble you. I know Yoshi's capabilities somewhat already, I'll just lurk the Yoshi boards for a bit I guess.
I think most people are still skeptical on Yoshi because he went from being written off as pretty much useless one minute (not my personal feelings, just the mentality of Smashboards it seems) to having chaingrabs and infinite grabs and being just about the only character who can hold his own against the best character in the game and other such things, which is good work on the part of you Yoshi mains really.
I think most people don't look into the character enough. On the surface (I think you'd probably agree) he seems pretty horrible, so that's what most people consider. The only reason I have him in like mid low at the minute is because of his bad tournament results (which they are).

 

[Chaco]

Wouldn't want to trouble you. I know Yoshi's capabilities somewhat already, I'll just lurk the Yoshi boards for a bit I guess.
I think most people are still skeptical on Yoshi because he went from being written off as pretty much useless one minute (not my personal feelings, just the mentality of Smashboards it seems) to having chaingrabs and infinite grabs and being just about the only character who can hold his own against the best character in the game and other such things, which is good work on the part of you Yoshi mains really.
I think most people don't look into the character enough. On the surface (I think you'd probably agree) he seems pretty horrible, so that's what most people consider. The only reason I have him in like mid low at the minute is because of his bad tournament results (which they are).

True, but I think I need to put my WD discovery in the tech thread to get it known...juice up the Yoshi talk. It really makes him the second fastest char in the game.

 

[Nestec]

Lol, Darkspatan, is your period key broken or something?

But anyway, what's up with this Yoshi wavedash anyway? I don't feel like going over to the Yoshi boards just to read about it. Lol, I'm internetlazy.

 

[darkspatan117]

Yoshi Wavedash is called the Dragonic Reverse I don't know how much it work but think it like the DJC of brawl yoshi cancel his 2nd jump while moving slightly backward and having 0 lag

 

[Gindler]

It's also REALLY hard to do, first you have to practice it at 1/4 speed and work you're way up "/

 

[spare-jello]

Dragonic Reverse... You have to jump>jump>Nair all within about a frame. You can slide forward or backward, or just stay in place, and you can combo straight out of it.

The thing is, being so hard to do, not many Yoshi mains can do it. So yeah, it changes his metagame a bit, but not drastically.

 

[Kiwikomix]

I personally don't think that it affects Yoshi's playstyle that much, especially since he's an air-based character and not a ground-based. As such, I haven't really bothered learning it.

 

[Mmac]

He can move forward too actually, and the properties works almost exactly like Melee's Wavedashing, you are carrying the momentum of the Double Jump into a Slide in the same matter as a Directional Airdodge in Melee.

Also, never let some random person name it ever again. Dragonic Reverse is probably the stupidest name ever. Yoshi isn't even a Dragon....

or is he?

 

[Nestec]

He's a dinosaur, I believe.

Which reminds me how ******** it is that they gave him super-armor on his 2nd jump. Dinosaurs should be easy to Meteor.

 

[Mmac]

He's a dinosaur, I believe.

Which reminds me how ******** it is that they gave him super-armor on his 2nd jump. Dinosaurs should be easy to Meteor.

Dude, not cool. I'm 1/3 Dinosaur.

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Yoshi isn't even a Dragon....

Actually, he is.

Japanese version of Super Mario World says it and so does Brawl. Yoshi's final smash is called "Super Dragon"

 

[Chaco]

Well the WD I'm talking about is a variation of DR, not just pure DR, that isn't all that fast. The one that I found was a variation that makes you move insanely fast and you can attack in between the bursts. To perform it you Foxtrot into DR, without the final attack though you just do the cancel, and you do this repeatedly and you can move INSANELY fast. We have the video of Sub doing it, and he's still not doing it as fast as it can be done...

http://files.filefront.com/SSBBYsiRW.../fileinfo.html

THere is the vid, but you can also turn with this and jab in between along with tilts and smashes.

EDIT: THe First Link does not work the actual link is here:

http://files.filefront.com/SSBBYsiRWDwmv/;11636365;/fileinfo.html

 

[Wolfandike]

Ok I have been puting stuff together to make a tier list I am am 20% done and when I'm done I will make a thread about it. I am basing it on there meta game.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

lol i didn't know but the one that was writing it was a ****ing noob

That's...the....point...
Speaking of points, you really ought to take the period suggestion people have given you.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Dammit, can't ya'll just call it "Draconic Reverse?" "Dragonic Reverse" sounds really dumb.

>__>

And I still feel that Yoshi isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Gindler]

I call it DR that way it's your choice <3 LTMQ (laugh to myself quietly)

 

[Skyflyer]

They should rename this the yoshi disacussion thread. It's all people have been talking about for the last i dunno...TEN ****ING PAGES

 

[Gindler]

I know right? I like how I can no be here for days and come back and not miss much.

 

[Tenki]

wall of multiquote better than shadowlink's walls of multiquotes.

I can't multiquote because I suck.

I'm cool, I can do it, Click the [Add Reply] button,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikafan8269297
pickachu is teh best charactor evar becuase al u do is pres down b and no one can kil u
if dey shiit ther lasers or arows den u jump bcus pikachu is super fast chractr guy.
plus he can shut lightning out of hid cheeeck so he amkes you zaped
then u al git uberpwned by his sid a

but pikuchu has super gud b dawn attack and den metnite gets rly rly pwned and then pikchu maks him ded

First of all learn how to write because your ****ing stupid pikachu is a very good char but far from the best and Newb like you spamming down b get almost one shot ko by a Game&Watch Oil panic or Heal Ness &Lucas For a lot of % So don't think pika the best because you found an ultra spammable move

Darkspatan:
You just debated a signature.

That's...the....point...
Speaking of points, you really ought to take the period suggestion people have given you.

guys don't have periods, we have commas,

I know right? I like how I can no be here for days and come back and not miss much.

It's like DBZ,

Oh, which reminds me

hey Shadow do you think Sonic is better than PT because I think he has a good advantage

hey samurai do you think that DK is better than Bowser

is Bowser better than DK on the tier list panda made he was slighty higher than him

hey samurai is dk is better than bowser and Pit

^

At first, I thought I was going through the same page over and over again- I was sure I was reading things over and over again that weren't Yoshi-related =/

 

[Deathcarter]

First of all, darkspartan needs to slow down >_>.

Secondly, the main discussion in this topic will now focus on Samus. So I, Deathcarter, decree.

People need to realize Samus has potential. Now there are few characters definitively below her (CF, Ganon, Link, Jiggs, and maybe Mama Luigi) but she is not bottom tier. Most of her matchups as of now consist of neutrals and slight disadvantages with some odd advantages here and there, so the Samus player has a good chance at winning a non G&W, MK, Falco (when not on Battlefield), Olimar, DDD, Pikachu, Yoshi matchup when he is better than his opponent. I am confident that Samus will move up somewhat as the Samus players become better.

Plus, her zair is better than G&W's bair imo. Too bad nothing else about her is.

 

[Chaco]

I call it Draconic, dragonic just sounds so bad.

 

[Grunt]

I actually like Brawl Samus.
I hate the fact that she plays nothing like Melee Samus though.
I have to remind myself that I can't keep Zairing in Melee.

 

[Frown]

Ok I have been puting stuff together to make a tier list I am am 20% done and when I'm done I will make a thread about it. I am basing it on there meta game.

Your thread will be locked and you will be asked to post your list in this thread.

Once you do that, people will start whining about how low Yoshi and Ike are, and then a 4-page Yoshi discussion will begin. Again.

 

[Julz]

First of all, darkspartan needs to slow down >_>.

Secondly, the main discussion in this topic will now focus on Samus. So I, Deathcarter, decree.

People need to realize Samus has potential. Now there are few characters definitively below her (CF, Ganon, Link, Jiggs, and maybe Mama Luigi) but she is not bottom tier. Most of her matchups as of now consist of neutrals and slight disadvantages with some odd advantages here and there, so the Samus player has a good chance at winning a non G&W, MK, Falco (when not on Battlefield), Olimar, DDD, Pikachu, Yoshi matchup when he is better than his opponent. I am confident that Samus will move up somewhat as the Samus players become better.

Plus, her zair is better than G&W's bair imo. Too bad nothing else about her is.

Haha, yeah. She definitely has potential but the Samus community is severely underdeveloped. I mean we just started making individual match up threads. Just recently stickied a Samus introduction thread. And we only JUST begun fastfalling our zairs. In doing so we found two modes to it; short range to limit the dead zone and long range for tipping. She also has potential to WoP half the cast. The short range fast fall zair can also combo into other moves such as dash attack and forward tilts. The short range zair still out ranges a lot of attacks.

I wouldn't rank her in bottom tier but bottom of low tier for now. I can also see her rising up in the low tier list in the near future.

 

[Pieisthebest]

Hasnt yoshi descussion been going on for more like 70 - 100 pages or so, not 10?

Also we need to discuss yoshi moar. No exceptions