Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Grandeza]

PC chris is not in PC.
Just refer to him as Chris.

Where have I been?

 

[ShadowLink84]

PC Chris is hella nice to everyone. You're not gonna make friends by **** talking him.

Edit: Falcos recovery (at least his up b) is very gimpable. As pit i just fall with a bair and the bair will out prioritize it from above. then i just hit falco under the stage and he dies. The side b recovery is good though

He said it himself, he's an ***.
For someone knowing so little you are quite quick to defend people whom you do not know.

Where have I been?

Most people wouldn't know.
PC Christ was also involved in MP:H heavily.
If you go to GF and visit the MP:H forums they'll tell you.
Of course it makes Edge sad.

 

[1HKO]

Some of the chain throws aren't even that strong and just push Lucas/Ness to the edge quickly with minimal damage. Needless to say, a stronger attack (Snakes f-tilt, for example) can follow out of them, but it's not always an infinite. And it's not like every character can do it.
Besides, it's likely Lucas and Ness will still perform well at tournies. If they win the first matchup and lose the second to a counterpick, they can just counter-counterpick and beat the second character chosen for two out of three. Good Earthbounders will survive, even if tournies end up taking longer.

umm...
DDD has a chainthrow that is always infinite, depending on the char you play against. Always infinite I'm assuming means always infinite as in you can't escape it(not regardless of character choice of course). I'm always infinitely not un-confusing to you aren't I!

 

[Kiwikomix]

I went this long without making a tier list, but curiosity finally overcame me. Thoughts are appreciated.

Top Tier
Snake - No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight - See above.
Marth - He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch - Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Wolf - Probably the best space animal, but his crap recovery keeps him from going higher.
Falco - One of the most effective projectile spams, but it can be ducked under. His kicked reflector is both an improvement and a disadvantage at the same time. Still a great ground and aerial game, plus a less terrible recovery.

High Tier
ROB - Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials.
Pikachu - Nerfed u-smash but better d-smash, good projectile, better thunder and quick attack can now cancel.
Toon Link - Good at linking attacks (argh, puns) and great at camping, but he's really quick to die.
Pit - Decent smashes, great projectile, but a pretty lackluster recovery when you really look at it.
Ice Climbers - Chain grabs, better recovery, decent projectile, and still pretty powerful.
King Dedede - Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high.
Diddy Kong - Fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, his projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him.
Kirby - Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's. Lightweight with good recovery.

Mid Tier
Lucario - Pretty good range, a decent projectile even when it's not charged, and a pseudo-SHUFFL. Not to mention his damage multipliers.
Fox - Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. Nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine (no more puns, I promise).
Bowser - Better, faster, stronger, plus a very reliable Bowsercide. Fear the King Koopa.
Luigi - Much better recovery, stronger attacks, faster in most respects, but still odd and floaty. His upB seems a bit harder to hit with.
Olimar - He still rips apart certain characters, but he's still fairly short-ranged and his recovery is terrible. He doesn't have to reach very far to exhaust his bag of tricks.
Wario - Unpredictable, with a great recovery. Not as slow as he looks. This guy has been dominating tournaments.
Donkey Kong - Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. Unfortunately, his punch has been nerfed.
Zelda - Din's Fire can juggle, many of her moves are much stronger now.
Zero Suit Samus - Good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Fast, but light and fairly weak.
Lucas - He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Yoshi - Better than last time, admit it. However, not good enough to get higher than bottom of mid tier.

Low Tier
Ike - Powerful, but very slow. People figured out how to beat this guy ages ago.
Pokemon Trainer - His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excell in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others.
Samus - Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower.
Sheik - Triple-nerf. How the mighty have fallen.
Link - Worse boomerang, worse recovery, and very slow.
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas. Shame.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here. His recovery is decent but somewhat gimpable.

Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Captain Falcon - Speaking of nerfs, here's Captain Falcon, who can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, no killer knee... he's got it bad.
Ganondorf - And, finally, Ganondorf rounds out the fact that much of the high tier from last game now belongs in the bottom. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.

 

[Exousia]

I see no objection to Kiwikomix's list. Its actually pretty convincing.

I lol'd at Fox Shine pun.

 

[Pikaville]

I miss mighty Sheik.But I welcome new pikachu(wolf too)

Yeah Kiwikomix list seems pretty decent.Ihate having to wait till the back room comes out with the official one to see how that is.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

I went this long without making a tier list, but curiosity finally overcame me. Thoughts are appreciated.

Top Tier
Snake - No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight - See above.
Marth - He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch - Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Wolf - Probably the best space animal, but his crap recovery keeps him from going higher.
Falco - One of the most effective projectile spams, but it can be ducked under. His kicked reflector is both an improvement and a disadvantage at the same time. Still a great ground and aerial game, plus a less terrible recovery.

High Tier
ROB - Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials.
Pikachu - Nerfed d-smash but better u-smash, good projectile, better thunder and quick attack can now cancel.
Toon Link - Good at linking attacks (argh, puns) and great at camping, but he's really quick to die.
Pit - Decent smashes, great projectile, but a pretty lackluster recovery when you really look at it.
Ice Climbers - Chain grabs, better recovery, decent projectile, and still pretty powerful.
King Dedede - Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high.
Diddy Kong - Fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, his projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him.
Kirby - Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's. Lightweight with good recovery.

Mid Tier
Lucario - Pretty good range, a decent projectile even when it's not charged, and a pseudo-SHUFFL. Not to mention his damage multipliers.
Fox - Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. Nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine (no more puns, I promise).
Bowser - Better, faster, stronger, plus a very reliable Bowsercide. Fear the King Koopa.
Luigi - Much better recovery, stronger attacks, faster in most respects, but still odd and floaty. His upB seems a bit harder to hit with.
Wario - Unpredictable, with a great recovery. Not as slow as he looks. This guy has been dominating tournaments.
Donkey Kong - Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. Unfortunately, his punch has been nerfed.
Zelda - Din's Fire can juggle, many of her moves are much stronger now.
Zero Suit Samus - Good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Fast, but light and fairly weak.
Lucas - He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Yoshi - Better than last time, admit it. However, not good enough to get higher than bottom of mid tier.

Low Tier
Ike - Powerful, but very slow. People figured out how to beat this guy ages ago.
Pokemon Trainer - His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excell in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others.
Samus - Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower.
Sheik - Triple-nerf. How the mighty have fallen.
Link - Worse boomerang, worse recovery, and very slow.
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas. Shame.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here. His recovery is decent but somewhat gimpable.

Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Captain Falcon - Speaking of nerfs, here's Captain Falcon, who can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, no killer knee... he's got it bad.
Ganondorf - And, finally, Ganondorf rounds out the fact that much of the high tier from last game now belongs in the bottom. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.

Id move Ike, Luigi and Fox up but It's still a pretty good list.

 

[Ugawa]

I went this long without making a tier list, but curiosity finally overcame me. Thoughts are appreciated.

Top Tier
Snake - No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight - See above.
Marth - He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch - Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Wolf - Probably the best space animal, but his crap recovery keeps him from going higher.
Falco - One of the most effective projectile spams, but it can be ducked under. His kicked reflector is both an improvement and a disadvantage at the same time. Still a great ground and aerial game, plus a less terrible recovery.

High Tier
ROB - Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials.
Pikachu - Nerfed d-smash but better u-smash, good projectile, better thunder and quick attack can now cancel.
Toon Link - Good at linking attacks (argh, puns) and great at camping, but he's really quick to die.
Pit - Decent smashes, great projectile, but a pretty lackluster recovery when you really look at it.
Ice Climbers - Chain grabs, better recovery, decent projectile, and still pretty powerful.
King Dedede - Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high.
Diddy Kong - Fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, his projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him.
Kirby - Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's. Lightweight with good recovery.

Mid Tier
Lucario - Pretty good range, a decent projectile even when it's not charged, and a pseudo-SHUFFL. Not to mention his damage multipliers.
Fox - Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. Nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine (no more puns, I promise).
Bowser - Better, faster, stronger, plus a very reliable Bowsercide. Fear the King Koopa.
Luigi - Much better recovery, stronger attacks, faster in most respects, but still odd and floaty. His upB seems a bit harder to hit with.
Wario - Unpredictable, with a great recovery. Not as slow as he looks. This guy has been dominating tournaments.
Donkey Kong - Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. Unfortunately, his punch has been nerfed.
Zelda - Din's Fire can juggle, many of her moves are much stronger now.
Zero Suit Samus - Good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Fast, but light and fairly weak.
Lucas - He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Yoshi - Better than last time, admit it. However, not good enough to get higher than bottom of mid tier.

Low Tier
Ike - Powerful, but very slow. People figured out how to beat this guy ages ago.
Pokemon Trainer - His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excell in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others.
Samus - Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower.
Sheik - Triple-nerf. How the mighty have fallen.
Link - Worse boomerang, worse recovery, and very slow.
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas. Shame.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here. His recovery is decent but somewhat gimpable.

Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Captain Falcon - Speaking of nerfs, here's Captain Falcon, who can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, no killer knee... he's got it bad.
Ganondorf - And, finally, Ganondorf rounds out the fact that much of the high tier from last game now belongs in the bottom. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.

What about Olimar? =DDD

 

[Dark Sonic]

Ban grab-release exploits.

Then you'd better ban chaingrabbing too. And wall shine infinites. And edgehogging tether recoveries. And everything else that's easy to do but effective at the same time.

Also, define grab-release exploit. How does it differ from chaingrabs (especially the non-infinite ones)?

 

[Sh1n0b1]

just because you're a lesbian doesn't mean you can't show us your boobs. as a matter of fact, it means you SHOULD show us your boobs to prove that you have nothing to hide from guys. kind of like how straight women let gay guys grope them, get it?

and on that note... jesus gave us pm boxes for a reason. i, personally, expect to find a link to some **** in my pm box sometime within the next few days.

Q.........F............T...

 

[Shark Week]

Then you'd better ban chaingrabbing too. And wall shine infinites. And edgehogging tether recoveries. And everything else that's easy to do but effective at the same time.

Also, define grab-release exploit. How does it differ from chaingrabs (especially the non-infinite ones)?

those examples are almost entirely different from abusing grabs on ness and lucas.

edgehogging someone with a tether recovery is not even close to being the same as racking up 150% damage on someone just by using l+a.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Edgehogging someone at 20% and racking 150% are basically leading to the same result aren't they. And I fail to see how this is any different from the DDD infinite chaingrab, or Fox's wallshine infinite, neither of which have been banned. And in case you didn't notice, most of these "grab abuses" are not even infinites, as they slowly push Ness and Lucas towards the edge, just like the Falco and DDD chaingrabs. Do we ban those too? If we do, why do we still allow chaingrabs and other infinites? This is not a special case in any way, and it's either ban all infinites and chaingrabs, ban all infinites (leaving the "grab abuses" that aren't infinites) including situational ones or hard to do ones like the Ice climber chaingrab, or don't ban anything. The ban has to be discrete and easily differentiable from other allowed tactics. So far this doesn't seem any worse than DDD's chaingrab infinite, or Ice climber's infinite chaingrab (which can be done on anybody).

 

[Kiwikomix]

Dedede's chaingrab and Fox's wallshine can only be done effectively on effective stages, and, like you said, on every character. They were also put into the game on purpose, where the Lucas/Ness infinite was a programming error. Finally, those techniques don't discriminate among characters, while this infinite completely screws over two otherwise good characters.
Not that I think they should be banned, but they are still different from cg's.

 

[Razor]

Pikachu - Nerfed d-smash but better u-smash,

nerfed d-smash? UHHHHH...you haven't played much pika have you?


sigh, enough of falco being top. top tier...no. Top tier chars have to be BROKEN to be a certain degree. My top is Snake, Meta, Rob and possibly Game and Watch. (it depends on how many chars you REALLY WANT in top tier). I've used falco quite a bit, the only two things that help falco's case is his recovery - the phantasm is insane this time....and his chain grab, which might or might not lead to a kill. There are better spammers(pit, rob, pikachu) and better aerial games (lucario, toon link).


falco's game is only fairly intuitive - you definitely have to certain mind set using da bird and he gets comboed very easily. very good char, probably in the bottom part of the high tier....but not top. plus, according to ankoku's tourny results, falco is just mid tier.

 

[BDawgPHD]

I see no objection to Kiwikomix's list. Its actually pretty convincing.

I lol'd at Fox Shine pun.

DK should definitely be higher than Bowser, and definitely high tier. He's got more range than Bowser, almost as much speed on his tilts and more speed on the rest of his attacks than Bowser, and he gimps people like crazy. Also his punch didn't get nerfed, the percentage range for killing was shifted upward. Bowser can't even kill until 100%, but DK can realistically kill at 80% with a few of his moves.

I also think because of Bowser's godly ground game, painful edgeguarding, and general goodness, he should be higher than Fox, and I think he should be above Kirby and Pit, who should be moved to bottom-high/top-mid (Kirby def high tier, Pit might be mid tier).

Luigi should be higher-tiered, because his only real weakness is floatiness and lack of shield-grabbing.....he has everything else, and is very very good if used properly.

Mario should be at least mid, possibly but unlikely high, because of speed, good approach, decent priority in attacks, and ridiculous edgeguarding. I've used him and he doesn't suck as badly as people say.....seriously, I beat good people with Mario.

I'm sure there are others, but this is actually a well thought out tier list that *wasn't* made by a nub.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Sorry on the nerfed d-smash, supposed to be the other way around.
Ankoku's tourney results are partially a popularity contest, so they don't really have a huge place in tier lists.
ROB is good, but too heavy, sluggish and combo-able to be top. G-Dub definitely. ROB can't spam, he has to charge up his projectiles.
Didn't I say Falco has "one of" the best projectile spams anyway? Besides, he's not as easily comboed as every character that's heavier or falls faster than him, like Dedede, Bowser, DK, ROB, Snake, Wolf, etc. If Wolf can be top, Falco is too.

 

[St. Viers]

sigh. falco is good at everything, with a few areas where he excels. The only problem is his recovery, which isn't that much of a problem (explained earlier)

You can hit them with lasers if they crouch...pretty sure, except for maybe some of the flatter chars.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Why does my list always get ignored -_-.


It's not only me expecting responses, some of the smarter posters from Gamefaqs wanted me to see the response mine would get so it could be perfected.

 

[BDawgPHD]

sigh. falco is good at everything, with a few areas where he excels. The only problem is his recovery, which isn't that much of a problem (explained earlier)

You can hit them with lasers if they crouch...pretty sure, except for maybe some of the flatter chars.

Snake crawls under everything, including shine. But I think everyone else can't duck under everything effectively, let alone crawl. I mean Kirby and Jiggs can duck, but that's it.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Just for you.

Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Falco
Marth
Mr. Game and Watch
R.O.B.

High Tier:
Toon Link
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Diddy Kong
Pit
Fox
Olimar
King Dedede
Pikachu
Ness
Lucas
Wario
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby

Mid Tier:
Lucario
Zelda
Pokemon Trainer
Luigi
Donkey Kong
lke
Bowser
Mario
Sheik

Low tier :
Sonic
Yoshi
Peach
Link
Samus
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

Low tier seems a bit large first of all (bottom tier maybe?), and Yoshi is higher than that. So is Bowser, who is uppermid/lowerhigh tier, as is DK. Luigi is higher. Ness and Lucas are way lower now, Kirby a little higher, Pikachu should be higher than Pit. Otherwise it looks pretty similar to mine. VANDALISM.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

lolz >_>

I guess I just may add a bottom tier back on there after all


The question is, where should the cutoff point be?

 

[Kaffei]

Lucas seems to have more potential than most people realize. His upb, if u know how to use it, can totally block ppl from getting back on stage. Also, he has quite a few 30-damage combos. He's just a rather evasive character, but once he gets all up in yo face, he's like a parasite. Also, his pivot grab is great for evading aerial attacks and then countering with a grab. I vote that Lucas should be at LEAST high tier in ANYONE's opinion, if not top tier.

I disagree, Lucas can easily be chain grabbed.

IMO, Zelda should be High to Mid tier.

 

[Kiwikomix]

I dunno about cutoffs, your high tier is pretty big too. With Ness, Lucas and ZSS moved down, you can start mid with Lucario, then low can be started with Ike providing Bowser and DK go up higher. Bottom would start with Jiggz or, on your list, Samus.

 

[St. Viers]

Oh, yeah, the whole ness lucas thing:

Read sirlin's guide to gaming. he goes over the problem with banning something. It's a great read, and shows why banning/imposing limits on something along the lines of the auto re-grab perfectly. Sonic Wave I think based his argument off of that guide, but reading the reasoning is excellent.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Some of the chain throws aren't even that strong and just push Lucas/Ness to the edge quickly with minimal damage. Needless to say, a stronger attack (Snakes f-tilt, for example) can follow out of them, but it's not always an infinite. And it's not like every character can do it.
Besides, it's likely Lucas and Ness will still perform well at tournies. If they win the first matchup and lose the second to a counterpick, they can just counter-counterpick and beat the second character chosen for two out of three. Good Earthbounders will survive, even if tournies end up taking longer.

...I love this post.

Also, I've been discussing that Earthbounder players should consider moving their "mains" to a secondary position. this way, they can 'lead' with their secondaries in tournaments, and then use their strongest character as a counter pick when they know they're safe.

for example: I lead with Lucario and win the first round. Player 2 chooses another character (say umm...Pikachu) and beats me for the second match. I know that Pikachu's chain grab on Ness/Lucas is fairly harmless, so I choose Lucas on the third match.

But still, it would be nice if this chain grab on Lucas and Ness is banned. But it seems that the back room is just not interested.

EDIT: but people really need to put Lucario higher up in their tier lists. the more I play as him, the more I realize he's too good for mid.

 

[Deleted member]

Good list Kwikomix, one of the best ive seen thus far. A few things id like to disagree with:

Wolf isnt top. He's good but definately not top. Id say mid high tier, his recovery blows and hes kinda predictable. I think Rob should switch with wolf, rob definately can camp effectively. Since he has to charge up, he camps a little differently, but at long range hes one of the best campers around. Good range, most attacks are very fast, a bit hard to kill with, but he is the best gimper in the game and his WoP is too good. I think pika should be top as well.

Zelda should move up to bottom of high, DK and bowser should switch places. ZSS should be in the middle of high at least, she is very very good.

I like it nice job

 

[Dark Sonic]

Dedede's chaingrab and Fox's wallshine can only be done effectively on effective stages, and, like you said, on every character. They were also put into the game on purpose, where the Lucas/Ness infinite was a programming error. Finally, those techniques don't discriminate among characters, while this infinite completely screws over two otherwise good characters.
Not that I think they should be banned, but they are still different from cg's.

DDD's chaingrab is still effective for racking damage and setting up edgeguards or linking quick attacks. That sounds just like most of the grab abuses. And DDD's chaingrab and Fox's wall shine infinite are probably not intentional, but just the result of the attacks having high amounts of stun. Likewise, the grab abuses are probably not intentional, but just the result of Ness and Lucas having a long grab break animation.

Remember, for most of the characters it is not an infinite, and much more similar to a DDD's chaingrab (they get pushed off the side of the stage. Some do it faster than others).
Though I do see your point about it singling out two characters and making them almost unplayable.


Also, did we ever decide if we were going to ban laser locks and jab locks?

 

[Kaffei]

I dunno about cutoffs, your high tier is pretty big too. With Ness, Lucas and ZSS moved down, you can start mid with Lucario, then low can be started with Ike providing Bowser and DK go up higher. Bottom would start with Jiggz or, on your list, Samus.

Why did ZSS go down?

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Wow, Kwi, our lists are pretty similar in terms of character placements. It's really just the order that differentiates.




Edit: Well, I've heard pretty high praise from her early on, but I don't know what's happened since that. She hasn't been putting up as well as I thought she would in tourneys.

 

[Kaffei]

Wow, Kwi, our lists are pretty similar in terms of character placements. It's really just the order that differentiates.




Edit: Well, I've heard pretty high praise from her early on, but I don't know what's happened since that. She hasn't been putting up as well as I thought she would in tourneys.

I played a few ZSSs, but only on behalf of Wifi Friend Codes.

None of them were GREAT, I mean, they were okay.. but I beat them easily with Zelda.

 

[Razor]

sigh. falco is good at everything, with a few areas where he excels. The only problem is his recovery, which isn't that much of a problem (explained earlier)

his recovery is def not a problem. most ppl haven't noticed, but falco can save his extra jump even after he is hit out of his phantasm. yes, he can save his double jump and the horizontal recovery is extremely long. it's fast and good luck trying to hit it. it has insane priority and nearly no landing lag. in melee..it was way tooo short and had way too much lag.


i do admit his vertical recovery sucks and at an angle...falco's dead. but trust me, his recovery is not a problem.


that being said...not top tier.


edit: the boards are pretty friendly and quite willing to answer questions. ppl only flame noobs for the dumb ****...but trust me...your first post being your personal tier list...is not a good idea. discuss, ask, and learn but take your time fellow smashers. tier list discussion will always be around.

 

[Banjodorf]

I disagree, Lucas can easily be chain grabbed.

IMO, Zelda should be High to Mid tier.

Yeah, because of the inexcapable technique that renders them useless, Lucas and Ness should be in the Mother Tier, below Captain Falcon AND Sonic. gasp!!


Anyway, my tier list:

Top

Snake (Big surprise)
Meta Knight
G&W (No, this is not because I main him...)
R.O.B.
Falco
Marth
Toon Link

High

Diddy
ICs
Kirby
Dedede
Zelda
Luigi
Wario
Wolf
Pikachu
Olimar
Zamus
Pit
(Wow, so many here)

Mid

Mario
Dk
Fox (Oh how the mighty have fallen)
PT
Lucario
Ike
Peach
Samus
Sheik

Low

Ganon
Bowser
Jiggs
C. Falcon (once again, oh how the mighty have fallen)
Yoshi
Sonic

Mother (Below Low, I'm serious, it's THAT big of a deal)

Lucas (Sorry old buddy )
Ness (Big surprise here )

 

[Kaffei]

Yeah, because of the inexcapable technique that renders them useless, Lucas and Ness should be in the Earthbound Tier, below Captain Falcon AND Sonic. gasp!!


Anyway, my tier list:

Top

Snake (Big surprise)
Meta Knight
G&W (No, this is not because I main him...)
R.O.B.
Falco
Marth
Toon Link

High

Diddy
ICs
Kirby
Dedede
Zelda
Luigi
Wario
Wolf
Pikachu
Olimar
Zamus
Pit
(Wow, so many here)

Mid

Mario
Dk
Fox (Oh how the mighty have fallen)
PT
Lucario
Ike
Peach
Samus
Sheik

Low

Ganon
Bowser
Jiggs
C. Falcon (once again, oh how the mighty have fallen)
Yoshi
Sonic

Earthbound Tier (Below Low, I'm serious, it's THAT big of a deal)

Lucas (Sorry old buddy )
Ness (Big surprise here )

I agree with most of your Tier List.

I have a question; can Zelda or TL Chain Grab either Lucas/Ness?

PSI Magnet is pissing me off, I can't use DF properly

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Oh come on, It's not that bad as already stated, this isn't MvC2 with it's "Roll" Tier. Lucas isn't even hurt as much as Ness IIRC.

Mainers of the PK boys just have to use alts

 

[Browny]

i think im actually getting dumber every time i read this thread.

Zelda is incredibly overrated in 1vs1. sure she can **** in 4 player FFA more so than ike, but seriously, look at tourney results. shes got absolutely nothing on the faster characters. im a zelda main (out of 7) but get systematically destroyed by anyone smaller than her, i got no trouble dealing with the likes of pikachu, MK, diddy and marth however as my mains lucario and sonic lol.

 

[Kaffei]

i think im actually getting dumber every time i read this thread.

Zelda is incredibly overrated in 1vs1. sure she can **** in 4 player FFA more so than ike, but seriously, look at tourney results. shes got absolutely nothing on the faster characters. im a zelda main (out of 7) but get systematically destroyed by anyone smaller than her, i got no trouble dealing with the likes of pikachu, MK, diddy and marth however as my mains lucario and sonic lol.

Not always true. I DO agree with you on some parts.

If you're Zelda vs A Smaller Character, Nayru's, D-Smash & Din's are your best friend.

It's pretty hard to Sweet Spot smaller chars, so I don't use it much against em.

 

[hizzlum]

I don't understabd why so many people think that falco has a good recovery, its ture that his side b takes a lot of distance but whoever lets falco align with the ledge has wasted an easy edgeguard(most aerials will push him back engough to get him killed and then grab the edge for the edgehg), his b-up is about as good as his mid-air jump and a speed hg edgehog gets you easy kills. Also any form of off the stage edgeguarding on a falco typically will get kills. I dont think he is anything less than the low part of the top tier or the highest of the high(thanks to emblem lord who aanwsered my question), but his recovery is mediocre and thats whats stop him from being the best in the game

 

[SwampFox]

Yeah, because of the inexcapable technique that renders them useless, Lucas and Ness should be in the Mother Tier, below Captain Falcon AND Sonic. gasp!!


Anyway, my tier list:

Top

Snake (Big surprise)
Meta Knight
G&W (No, this is not because I main him...)
R.O.B.
Falco
Marth
Toon Link

High

Diddy
ICs
Kirby
Dedede
Zelda
Luigi
Wario
Wolf
Pikachu
Olimar
Zamus
Pit
(Wow, so many here)

Mid

Mario
Dk
Fox (Oh how the mighty have fallen)
PT
Lucario
Ike
Peach
Samus
Sheik

Low

Ganon
Bowser
Jiggs
C. Falcon (once again, oh how the mighty have fallen)
Yoshi
Sonic

Mother (Below Low, I'm serious, it's THAT big of a deal)

Lucas (Sorry old buddy )
Ness (Big surprise here )

I'm hoping i'm just blind atm and skimming over...but did you forget Link?!

 

[DarkKnight077]

Here is my mock one. I won't go to low or bottom just yet though.

High:
Snake
MK
Falco
Marth
Toon Link

High:
R.O.B
D3
Wolf
Olimar
ICs
Fox
Game and Watch
Ike(A bit high on the list but seriously he kicks so much butt even with his slow speed)
Pika
Pit
Wario (Should be top-mid but he has enough mpmhf to get high)

Mid:
Luigi
Lucas (Can get away from the CG)
DK
Mario
Jiggs
Samus
Zelda
Zamus
Sonic (You guys rate him too low, that's because you don't how to play him)

Anyways that's all for now. I haven't gotten to the other but I will soon.

 

[Kaffei]

Here is my mock one. I won't go to low or bottom just yet though.

High:
Snake
MK
Falco
Marth
Toon Link

High:
R.O.B
D3
Wolf
Olimar
ICs
Fox
Game and Watch
Ike(A bit high on the list but seriously he kicks so much butt even with his slow speed)
Pika
Pit
Wario (Should be top-mid but he has enough mpmhf to get high)

Mid:
Luigi
Lucas (Can get away from the CG)
DK
Mario
Jiggs
Samus
Zelda
Zamus
Sonic (You guys rate him too low, that's because you don't how to play him)

Anyways that's all for now. I haven't gotten to the other but I will soon.

Ike does kick ***. His KB is awsome :D