Pikachu has a decent projectile which forces approaches, a spammable, poking dsmash comparable to Melee Peach's dsmash to a lesser extent, quick lagless attacks with good priority, strong attacks in general, grab combos, and thunderbolt, which absolutely kills, can be comboed into, and doesn't have much ending lag, so it isn't punishable if you use it correctly. Honestly he could be top tier.
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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
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A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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Yeah, Pikachu is really good in Brawl.
The only real disadvantages I noticed about Pikachu was being a little bit lightweight, and having noticeable landing lag on his aerial attacks. Otherwise everything else about him is quite good.
One very important thing to consider about Pikachu is that I am pretty sure he counters Snake.
The only real disadvantages I noticed about Pikachu was being a little bit lightweight, and having noticeable landing lag on his aerial attacks. Otherwise everything else about him is quite good.
One very important thing to consider about Pikachu is that I am pretty sure he counters Snake.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Um, yeah I definitely know more about Melee than 90% of the people in here.
And I know just as much about Brawl as 100% of the people in here who think MK is top, when the game has been out for 3 months.
Besides, the Backroom will most likely screw this list up like they did the last Melee tier list.
The backroom really needs to think this one through, seeing as how this game will have definite counters.
Once a tier list for this game has been made, it won't change much(if it even changes at all) over the years before the next smash.
This game(Brawl) is soooooo linear.
And I know just as much about Brawl as 100% of the people in here who think MK is top, when the game has been out for 3 months.
Besides, the Backroom will most likely screw this list up like they did the last Melee tier list.
The backroom really needs to think this one through, seeing as how this game will have definite counters.
Once a tier list for this game has been made, it won't change much(if it even changes at all) over the years before the next smash.
This game(Brawl) is soooooo linear.
hizzlum
Smash Journeyman
I guess pikachu seems to have regained the potencial he lost in melee when he was the best in the original, but what about wario being so high? I think he should be middle/low part of high tier beacuse he can WoP and has a good recovery, but that is situational, and if you get him off the bike, his b-up is so bad that a biasic edgeguard will get the kill. someone please justify wario's place as top/high tier, I think he should be in the middle of the high instead
slikvik
Smash Master
its about two years old and falco is definitely not top tier
edit: lol at silly noob below me. This may come as a surprise to you as well. DK and luigi are actually mid tier in melee
SwordmasterXXXI
Smash Journeyman
Oh yeah? What tier do you think Falco is in then?
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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Falco is high tier.
Marth and Fox are tied for number 1 IMO.
Both top tier.
Also I have beef with Melee tiers at it seems entirely based on how well everyone does vs Marth, Fox, Sheik and Fox and how well characters place when pretty much all tier list are based on match-ups except games with Team based Metagames i.e CvS2, MvC2, any Kof, etc.
Marth and Fox are tied for number 1 IMO.
Both top tier.
Also I have beef with Melee tiers at it seems entirely based on how well everyone does vs Marth, Fox, Sheik and Fox and how well characters place when pretty much all tier list are based on match-ups except games with Team based Metagames i.e CvS2, MvC2, any Kof, etc.
Metro Knight
Smash Ace
Well, I am certainly surprised about how well Pikachu, Wario, and Snake have done in tournaments. And people who play them have a general good feel about them so, that is why they are both so high on my list, KaShank did an analysis on the Match up list,
As far as Wario and Pikachu go, if people are winning with them, and feel that they are decent characters, than maybe they deserve to be on the top tier. 0% of my Judgement went into this list, if it did I would probably put Link higher up on it, considering I use Link as my main.
and I used the Tournament results posted by Ankoku, which showed Snake and Metaknight on the top as the tournament winners.
I think Metaknight in time will go down, but I think he is still very strong. Snake has won more tournaments than anyone has, but I think less people play Snake than Metaknight, but those who are good are doing really well, and that could be an indication that Snake is better than Metaknight once you play at higher levels.
As far as Wario and Pikachu go, if people are winning with them, and feel that they are decent characters, than maybe they deserve to be on the top tier. 0% of my Judgement went into this list, if it did I would probably put Link higher up on it, considering I use Link as my main.
Wtfwasthat
Smash Journeyman
Fox is not top tier. GaW, MK, Marth and R.O.B are top. Fox, falco and wolf are high
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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Reread my post and then reread yours and tell me what's wrong.
Hint: Am I talking about Brawl or Melee?
Hint: Am I talking about Brawl or Melee?
Wtfwasthat
Smash Journeyman
Last time I checked this was the "BRAWL Tier Discussion"
slikvik
Smash Master
learn to read posts
Metro Knight
Smash Ace
For those that have to have it framed in the fashion of a tier list, then this is how I would do it. Based on the prior to lists that I posted. I was very surprised by Pikachu, Wario, and Snake. I was very disapointed in Link, and the Pokemon Trainer, people do not seem to have very good opinions of them in the Match Up threads and these characters are lacking in Tournament wins.
Top
Meta Knight:
Snake:
Mr.Game & Watch:
Marth:
R.O.B.:
Toon Link:
Wolf:
High
Falco:
Wario:
Pikachu:
Pikman:
King D3:
Lucario:
Pit:
Kirby:
Ice Climbers:
Middle
Fox:
Diddy:
Lucas:
ZSS:
Ness:
Ike:
Zelda:
Peach:
Donkey Kong:
Sonic:
Low
Sheik:
Link:
Luigi:
Mario:
Ivysaur:
Squirtle:
Jigglypuff:
Bowser:
Bottom
Charizard:
Captain Falcon:
Samus:
Yoshi:
Ganondorf:
Top
Meta Knight:
Snake:
Mr.Game & Watch:
Marth:
R.O.B.:
Toon Link:
Wolf:
High
Falco:
Wario:
Pikachu:
Pikman:
King D3:
Lucario:
Pit:
Kirby:
Ice Climbers:
Middle
Fox:
Diddy:
Lucas:
ZSS:
Ness:
Ike:
Zelda:
Peach:
Donkey Kong:
Sonic:
Low
Sheik:
Link:
Luigi:
Mario:
Ivysaur:
Squirtle:
Jigglypuff:
Bowser:
Bottom
Charizard:
Captain Falcon:
Samus:
Yoshi:
Ganondorf:
Wtfwasthat
Smash Journeyman
shhhhhhh..sorry 
Who the hell are you anyway? All I've gotten is that you're a total ****, and you like pretending you know what you're talking about.
There's something called "authority". Not in the sense of the authority that moderators and admins have to operate the forums, but rather the authority that substantiates your opinions and positions as plausible. People like Mew2King or KDJ obviously have a lot of "authority" when it comes to smash because they play the game for a living and are good at it, and that authority alone is enough to give their opinions a lot of weight.
To put what you were saying before into perspective, the people who are really good at Brawl have more authority when it comes to Brawl than moderators or even some BRoomers do, although moderators have the "authority" to lock your threads and do mean things to you.
Now, I'm not well known on the smash scene, because I was never really any good at Melee, and I haven't been to a real tournament yet. So my opinions don't count for much by themselves, which is why I always explain what I'm saying so that
a) I create my own authority by substantiating my opinions with facts
b) if I'm wrong, someone can point out where my mistake is, and I can learn something from it and then reform my opinion.
Now, speaking from experience, I understand that it gets frustrating to bring every single person that joins this thread up to speed on the discussion, so when someone REALLY ****s up (*cough**MKismidtierorBowsersucksorsomething**cough*) I don't blame people for flaming, as I do it myself. This is why this thread sucks.....it doesn't get updated or anything, so it's a pain to have a REAL discussion. Not that we need one, entirely.
My point is......I don't even know who you are....where do you get the authority to insult everyone else, and just state your opinions and then ***** when you're opposed? (<<<<<honest question)
On another note, you can't say MK isn't top just because you can beat him on wifi =/
Metro Knight
Smash Ace
He is top tier, because he is winning in tournaments, I mean you can't really argue with that. And if you want to criticize the tournaments, than the forum match up threads also say he is top tier. So ATM, I would think he is doing rather well, and people need to l2beat metaknight. I certainly win a lot with him.
How hard MK is to beat depends heavily on the player. I haven't played against a MK when I wasn't MK myself in a while, but he has trouble with Snake because Snake can heavily limit his approach, and with Pikachu because Pikachu is as lagless as MK, and he has a lot of deceptive range and priority. MK's effectiveness depends on how adaptive the player is to the situation. A predictable MK sucks, and will get beat by good players. An MK that adjusts his playstyle a lot during the match is too good.
This is speaking from experience....generally any character is dangerous when he starts to play differently, but MK has an insane approach/chasing game that isn't easy to start sometimes, but is difficult to stop.
This doesn't work on wifi, because camping>>>>>>approaching on wifi, and a lot of what makes MK good (grabs, chasing, spacing, spot dodging, good timing, etc) is thrown off by the lag.
MASAHIROx
Smash Lord
i stopped reading there...
flyingpork002
Smash Apprentice
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diddy kong is definetely not mid tier. He is at least high tier but maybe even top. He is extremely good comboer. His fair, fsmash, and dsmash can kill pretty well. His naners kick ***. Also, the reason why diddy kong has not alot of wins on that list is because nobody plays him at tourneys. You should have a list of characters winning percentages, not just how many times a character has won. A metaknight could have been in a tourney 200 times and won 30 times while a diddy could have been in a tourney 20 times and won 5
BibulousDan
Smash Apprentice
AMEN TO THAT!
Mr. Brawl and Watch
Smash Apprentice
ganondorf is top tier.
he has the best recovery in the game, and he is much faster now than he was in melee in comparison to the other characters. the turn-around ganon punch is the most elusive and unpredictable attack in the game and the strength and knockback of it combined with how fast it turns around makes g-dorf the best char in the game! he is the heaviest humanoid character in the game, which makes him hard to knock back. he has very little lag from landing while doing an air attack, even with L-canceling removed.
he has a cool cape too
lets see how many people reply to this lol
jk, guys. that would have been spam.
anyway, i think master hand is high tier, if not top tier. and tabuu is the best char. in the game. you cant knock him back no matter what move you do. three of ness's pk flash collected into g&w's bucket downb then released onto ike's counter doesn't even phase tabuu. imo, he are teh best.
lol jk yet again.
anyway, i think wario is under rated and over looked. i mean he has many fast and combo-able attacks, and his d-i in midair as comparable to jiggly's. he can also kill with his bike, or his fart, or his fsmash. his fully charged fart does 40 damage. that's the most damage possible from a single attack in the game.
fox might have been nerfed a little, but his style has been buffed alot. look how cool he is now!
he has the best recovery in the game, and he is much faster now than he was in melee in comparison to the other characters. the turn-around ganon punch is the most elusive and unpredictable attack in the game and the strength and knockback of it combined with how fast it turns around makes g-dorf the best char in the game! he is the heaviest humanoid character in the game, which makes him hard to knock back. he has very little lag from landing while doing an air attack, even with L-canceling removed.
he has a cool cape too
lets see how many people reply to this lol
jk, guys. that would have been spam.
anyway, i think master hand is high tier, if not top tier. and tabuu is the best char. in the game. you cant knock him back no matter what move you do. three of ness's pk flash collected into g&w's bucket downb then released onto ike's counter doesn't even phase tabuu. imo, he are teh best.
lol jk yet again.
anyway, i think wario is under rated and over looked. i mean he has many fast and combo-able attacks, and his d-i in midair as comparable to jiggly's. he can also kill with his bike, or his fart, or his fsmash. his fully charged fart does 40 damage. that's the most damage possible from a single attack in the game.
fox might have been nerfed a little, but his style has been buffed alot. look how cool he is now!
Shibby
Smash Journeyman
Mr. Brawl and Watch
Smash Apprentice
shibby your sig is hot i love zamus
Nintendogs
Smash Journeyman
The Ice climbers fully charged and well placed dsmash can do 53%.
Mr. Brawl and Watch
Smash Apprentice
well that's if you hit with both climbers. that doesnt count... or does it...
anyway, it's nearly impossible to hit that in a match because you have to charge it up. wario's fart does take time to caharge, but since you can move around while charging it, it's not a factor. also, he releases his fart fast and hits anyone i his vicinity, so it has higher range then ic dsmash. the fart is a good finisher.
VulgarHandGestures
Smash Journeyman
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charizard's rock smash does 43% if you sweet spot it, and it doesn't require any charging.
ellelaby's younger brother
Smash Apprentice
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Hell yeah. She looks so hot in that pic I want it so bad. Need some good anime Samus so I can have naughty time thank-you come again.
I forgot to say that she so naughty and hot she can play with my joystick anyday.
VulgarHandGestures
Smash Journeyman
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lmfao
tencharizards
tencharizards
Mr. Brawl and Watch
Smash Apprentice
i forgot about charizard!
it actually get about 45% on the first hit.
I remember using that in hrc to get like 3000+ ft
it actually get about 45% on the first hit.
I remember using that in hrc to get like 3000+ ft
RedTreachery
Smash Rookie
Top Tier: ZZS, G&W, Marth
High Tier: Pika, Falco, Snake, MK, ROB
Middle Tier: Lucario, Lucus, Pit, Ike.... no need to finish.
MK and Snake seem to be losing popularity while G&W, Pika, and ZZS are being taken up by more and more people. G&W really seems to be picking up and the people playing him are getting harder and harder to beat. Lucario has a beneficial blend of attacks and I think it's just a matter of time until more is figured out about him.
High Tier: Pika, Falco, Snake, MK, ROB
Middle Tier: Lucario, Lucus, Pit, Ike.... no need to finish.
MK and Snake seem to be losing popularity while G&W, Pika, and ZZS are being taken up by more and more people. G&W really seems to be picking up and the people playing him are getting harder and harder to beat. Lucario has a beneficial blend of attacks and I think it's just a matter of time until more is figured out about him.
So basically you put the porn star, the metro, and the black guy in top tier. While leaving out the sexy latin voice and, uh....what should we call Snake?
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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We should call Snake "The Real Captain Falcon".
Oh come on, he has the Knee y'know.
Oh come on, he has the Knee y'know.
I thought about that, but he just doesn't have as much 'tude as Captain Falcon. I mean, go back and play a good Captain Falcon in Melee.....you'll see what I mean.
Snake actually reminds me of some random Russian guy......."In Soviet Russia, Brawl plays you."
....okay, that was lame enough, but just look at him!
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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Okay, let's see...
Captain Falcon had an amazing Jab
He always had an amazing taunt
Snake also has those too lol.
Otherwise uh...I'm not very creative. <_<
I personally don't like Fox all that much. I honestly don't think he has that much going for him besides the fact his U-smash is still decent, and Shinespiking.
Captain Falcon had an amazing Jab
He always had an amazing taunt
Snake also has those too lol.
Otherwise uh...I'm not very creative. <_<
Add me. That was funny IMO.
Wario is pretty good. I agree. His main problem is that he lack range pretty significantly. Actually I think his grab range is good, but his other attacks don't have very good range and priority.
I personally don't like Fox all that much. I honestly don't think he has that much going for him besides the fact his U-smash is still decent, and Shinespiking.
Zook
Perpetual Lazy Bum
I've never understood how cartoon characters manage to give gamer nerds boners.
But Fox has so much 'tude, now. Just look at his idle pose.....he's like "let's fight, *****es." Also he's still reasonably quick. He's probably high tier somewhere, maybe the low end of it.
When your balls drop, you can then make fun of other people for getting boners.
Sir, I don't know if you've ever met ZSS. I feel the same way you do about this sort of thing, except that I can't stop looking at her either. So if you don't think she's hot, then you, sir, are gay.
Blackshadow
Smash Ace
I honestly believe people greatly underestimate Ganondorf's abilities. Autocancelling a dair to upsmash combo to do 50%+ must mean something, along with the flame choke which is fast AND goes through shields, which leads to his other combos, let alone chaingrabbing with the flamechoke or Tipman spiking for edgeguarding.
Also, Ganoncides.
Also, Ganoncides.
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