Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Kiwikomix]

Uh no bias in the backroom?
Just because they run around in the SBR doesn't mean there's no bias. And not putting your main character underneath your post count doesn't mean you don't HAVE a main. There's gotta be bias somewhere.

 

[SunriseW12]

wario is not low. mid at least.

 

[Xiivi]

If you read my post I said they were not biased in the manner described. Those in the SBR know this is a different game from melee and all of the characters are different from their melee counterparts. Velda's post said people will base things based off of melee, and this is not true for the SBR or even most normal posters in this thread. Please do not try and twist my words into me stating the SBR is filled with flawless users. They will still have bias, but it will be based on their brawl experience, not melee experience. -_-;;

 

[Corigames]

Plus, I trust them more than most people not them.

 

[hizzlum]

Marth is at least bottom of the top tier for sure, almost every moderator and pro agrees with that(gimpyfish, hugS said marth and MK were eaisly top tier). If you actually use marth use marth to his best potential(which is through mainly his aerials, which overall are proably best in brawl beacuse sheik has been so nerfed), you can play very quick with good combo ability, good wavebounce, a good recovery that circles under battle field, now multiple KO moves in brawl, he only lack a projectile and is on the light side, although he isnt super light. he a top tier charater for sure, unless someone has anything to say otherwise about more cons, which are not many

 

[BDawgPHD]

So they are robots I presume?

Don't be ridiculous. Everyone has a little bias. But that's why SBR isn't one person. They're all smart enough to discuss and come to an informed final decision, unlike the rest of you fools.

 

[St. Viers]

ShadowLink: I don't get your criticism of BDawgs post a few pages back. Are you saying that characters in the top tiers DON'T have fewer weaknesses than strengths, or that they DON'T excel in one area enough to compensate for minor deficiencies in others?

Cause to me it looked like rhetorical nit-picking, except that your rhetoric sucks, your grasp of logic is sketchy, and your nit-picks didn't really address anything.
[/flame]

I mean honestly, you can't have it both ways, by first saying that wolf shouldn't be top tier, and then using wolf to invalidate what he's saying about top tier--pick the argument you believe, and stick to it. Using "furthermore, even if" arguments only works when you make it clear you are trying to set it up. Sorry for being an ***, but posting simply to disagree with someone doesn't work unless can actually disagree with them

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

That Owl on your avatar is creeping me out >_>

 

[hizzlum]

wario is not low. mid at least.

Totally agree, wario should be a high/mid tier character. he can WoP with his fair, and an insane recovery and much more things that i cant recall now. someone please debate otherwise

 

[Deleted member]

Marth is at least bottom of the top tier for sure,
good wavebounce

??? Am i missing something or do marths wavebounce now -.-

 

[Emblem Lord]

Haha.

Visit the Marth forums and read up on Shieldbreaker.

Or read anything with my name under it.

Cuz I'm awesome like that.

Also the wavebounce needs more testing.

 

[StripesOrBars]

The Red Wings are top tier.

They've proven it for the past 25 hockey seasons.

 

[MASAHIROx]

iight this my second attempt at a tier list...

its WAY HARDER to make one than i thought...

TOP-
MK
Marth
Falco
Snake

High-
R.O.B.
D3
Fox
Wolf
Zelda
Pit
Toon Link
Mr. Game and Watch
Ike
Olimar


Middle-
Lucas
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Squirtle
Lucario
ZSS
Wario
Diddy Kong
Pikachu
Ivysaur
Luigi
Shiek
Sonic
Mario
Ness
Peach
Jigglypuff

Low-
Donkey Kong
Bowser
Samus
Link
Charizard
Captain Falcon
Yoshi
Ganondorf

 

[hizzlum]

G&W is a definite top tier. he has no big problem, has a lot of KO moves, best bair in the game, good reovery. Marth is the bottom of the top tier rather than he high part of it. MK, Snake, G&W are the top of the top, falco and marth are just slightly lower in my opinion

 

[StripesOrBars]

Makin a tier list is stupid without tourney results.

People are sayin this character should be here and this character should be here when the only characters we can really place are like maybe the top 5 or 6.

 

[hizzlum]

Makin a tier list is stupid without tourney results.

People are sayin this character should be here and this character should be here when the only characters we can really place are like maybe the top 5 or 6.

You're right that smashboards will proabably have bad assumptions of the middle and lower tiers and you're right that we have found out the best characters
in the game which are in most of the high and top tiers. I really don't care who places low, i just want to see who the best are in the game

 

[chansen]

snake and yoshi.

 

[Frown]

snake and yoshi.

Yeah, those are characters alright.

 

[StripesOrBars]

We've had 3 120+ man tournies here.

A DK won one(Pit and Marth 2nd and 3rd).

A MK and Pit split the pot at one.

And an Olimar won the other(D3 got 2nd).

Snake, Kirby and Falco also **** here.

 

[hizzlum]

Were those big money tourney's like EVO or MLG? also its not only tourney results, the tier list is made by the SBR, so they could override tournament wins and rather input their opininon on the characters, though i do think they make the list very fairly

 

[BDawgPHD]

Makin a tier list is stupid without tourney results.

People are sayin this character should be here and this character should be here when the only characters we can really place are like maybe the top 5 or 6.

Well, I say characters are in higher tiers because I know how good they are, in general and compared to other characters. On that note, Bowser and DK are not low tier, I'm pushing for somewhere (probably low) in high tier, but they'll make mid tier at least. If I'm wrong, it's because there are no characters that are terrible.......besides, like, Falcon and Ganondorf. Come to think of it, there's no way those two could be anything lower than mid. DK will very likely be in high tier, Bowser is more of a longshot for high.

 

[St. Viers]

Re: Tier Lists and Tournie Results
The reason they use tournie results is because theoretically the people who end up competing at the end of tournies are playing at the highest level of the character. As people are still not done learning/explloring brawl and its metagame, this level of mastery of the meta-game isn't here, so tournie results are the best thing to determine a tier list by.

The smash back room will of course be looking at tournie results already (even if they don't give perfect info onto which characters deserve what rank), but I'm pretty sure their first tier list won't solely be based on them.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

yoshi being put in bottom tier isn't adding up to me.

he's not bad unlike some of the other characters lower on the list
point out why he's on the bottom.

 

[StripesOrBars]

The SBR has some pretty ******** memebers tho.

Moderators for starters.

And anyone who says "well they know alot" is just as ********.

The only people who should make the tier list should be "good" at this game(people who place high in tourneys).

Not some guy who plays by himself and then comes and warns or bans people who make fun of him.

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

The SBR has some pretty ******** memebers tho.

Moderators for starters.

And anyone who says "well they know alot" is just as ********.

The only people who should make the tier list should be "good" at this game(people who place high in tourneys).

Not some guy who plays by himself and then comes and warns or bans people who make fun of him.

somebody sounds bitter...

 

[MASAHIROx]

you mean honest?

 

[Tristan Fattest of All Kids]

Best in Game: Toon Link
nuf said...

 

[Tristan Fattest of All Kids]

somebody sounds bitter...

This guy is totally right. People who make tier lists should be the pros, or the players who place high in tournaments.

 

[BDawgPHD]

The SBR has some pretty ******** memebers tho.

Moderators for starters.

And anyone who says "well they know alot" is just as ********.

The only people who should make the tier list should be "good" at this game(people who place high in tourneys).

Not some guy who plays by himself and then comes and warns or bans people who make fun of him.

Someone didn't get a toy in his happy meal.....

 

[MASAHIROx]

those guys are too lazy/dont care

and TL is not that great anymore. kind of like when people thought link was good in melee...

BDawg - DooDah knows wayyy more than you do about smash. respect.

 

[BDawgPHD]

those guys are too lazy/dont care

and TL is not that great anymore. kind of like when people thought link was good in melee...

BDawg - DooDah knows wayyy more than you do about smash. respect.

I'm not saying that he's wrong, I'm just saying that he's far too bitter in making the point. And no he doesn't. Not Brawl, anyway.

 

[DarkRenji]

Donkey Kong is top tier.

 

[Metro Knight]

I combined KaShank Match-up chart results list and Ankoku's tournament result list. If someone was 39th and 39th, than the character got 78 points, and that would make them the worst character. The character who placed best in tournaments and by the match-up ranking, would be at the top, example, Metaknight was 2nd on the tournaments and first in the match up, so overall he was first, snake was 6th on the match up, but first on the tournament list, so he was 2nd. Snake had a total of 7 points, Metaknight had a total of 3 points.

Meta Knight:
Snake:
Mr.Game & Watch:
Marth:
R.O.B.:
Toon Link:
Wolf:

Falco:
Wario:
Pikachu:
Pikman:

King D3:
Lucario:
Pit:
Kirby:
Ice Climbers:

Fox:
Diddy:
Lucas:
ZSS:
Ness:
Ike:
Zelda:
Peach:
Donkey Kong:
Sonic:

Sheik:
Link:
Luigi:
Mario:
Ivysaur:
Squirtle:
Jigglypuff:
Bowser:
Charizard:
Captain Falcon:

Samus:
Yoshi:
Ganondorf:

 

[Metro Knight]

After viewing both lists, I think that the Pokemon trainer statistics, but be inaccurate, on the tournament list, it showed them all together. On the match up list, it ivy/squirtle together. But other than that it seems pretty legitment.

 

[solecalibur]

top tier will probly be pit because every one is good with him lol

And no this isnt who im good with its just what i think
my list

Pit
Wolf
Rob
Snake
Mr Game and watch
Pokemon trainer
Lucas
Peach
toon link
lucario (Spell that right?)
Zelda
Wario
Mario
Sheik
Zero Suit
Lugi
Jiggilypuff
Link
pickachu (cant spell ftw)
uhh i cant really think all of them for sure just what i think we all know bowser is gonna be dead last no suprize?

 

[BDawgPHD]

I combined the Match-up chart and the tournament list. If someone was 39th and 39th, than the character got 78 points, and that would make them the worst character. The character who placed best in tournaments and by the match-up ranking, would be at the top, example, Metaknight was 2nd on the tournaments and first in the match up, so overall he was first, snake was 6th on the match up, but first on the tournament list, so he was 2nd. Snake had a total of 7 points, Metaknight had a total of 3 points.

Meta Knight:
Snake:
Mr.Game & Watch:
Marth:
R.O.B.:
Toon Link:
Wolf:

Falco:
Wario:
Pikachu:
Pikman:

King D3:
Lucario:
Pit:
Kirby:
Ice Climbers:

Fox:
Diddy:
Lucas:
ZSS:
Ness:
Ike:
Zelda:
Peach:
Donkey Kong:
Sonic:

Sheik:
Link:
Luigi:
Mario:
Ivysaur:
Squirtle:
Jigglypuff:
Bowser:
Charizard:
Captain Falcon:

Samus:
Yoshi:
Ganondorf:

How do you determine the gap between each tier section?

 

[Metro Knight]

I looked for natural breaks, it isn't a traditional tier list. Basically if someone had 22 points, and the next person down had 25, than the difference would be large enough to justify a break. You could also do it like this. Just use my methodology from the top. Position of Tournaments on Ankoku's list, and from KaShank's Match-up chart Anaylsis.

Meta Knight: 3
Snake: 7
Mr.Game & Watch: 8

Marth: 11
R.O.B.: 13
Toon Link: 15
Wolf: 16
Falco: 19
Wario: 20
Pikachu: 22
Pikman: 25

King D3: 29
Lucario: 29
Pit: 30
Kirby: 31
Ice Climbers: 32

Fox: 37
Diddy: 39
Lucas: 42
ZSS: 42
Ness: 43
Ike: 44
Zelda: 45
Peach: 47
Donkey Kong: 47
Sonic: 49

Sheik: 53
Link: 54
Luigi: 55
Mario: 58
Ivysaur:59
Squirtle:59
Jigglypuff: 60
Bowser: 61

Charizard: 66
Captain Falcon: 67
Samus: 67
Yoshi: 71
Ganondorf: 72

 

[Ills]

Can I have a link to Ankoku's list?

 

[salaboB]

I looked for natural breaks, it isn't a traditional tier list. Basically if someone had 22 points, and the next person down had 25, than the difference would be large enough to justify a break. You could also do it like this. Just use my methodology from the top. Position of Tournaments on Ankoku's list, and from KaShank's Match-up chart Anaylsis.
Wario: 20
Pikachu: 22

Pikman: 25
King D3: 29
Lucario: 29

I'd put Pikman up with Pikachu, since that's only a gap of 3 and there's a jump of 4 that stabilizes right below it.

 

[hizzlum]

can someone please tell me why pikachu is any good in brawl, being put in the high tier sounds off. And wario is a high tier character but not that high up. D3 and pit should swtch places with these two in my opinion.