Susi
Smash Apprentice
Dekillsage, could you tell me how badly Snake beats Ness?
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Official BBR Tier List v7
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
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RaptorTEC
Smash Champion
He doesn't.
Illuvial
Exploring Tallon IV
It was too late because you knew? How in the **** does that even make an inkling of sense?
Overrated by a small and vocal minority on repeated occasions, still gets voted into lower mid tier
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Uh... no.
2 years ago it was perfectly fine to ban him.
1 year ago its still fine to ban him.
Even now its fine to ban him.
The thing is we're a bunch of ***** cats.
So we dance around the issue rather than face it directly.
Ledge grab limit.
IDC ban.
Ruleset catered to making MK worse.
I bet if the Brawl community played Power rangers they'd tell Ivan Ooze player's they can't use his specials twice in a row.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
MK isnt banned because he isnt as broken as people think. If he was ban worthy, he'd be winning everything all the time, and MK has only ever won 1 or 2 of the what like, 5-6 Apex tournaments, and thats the biggest smash tournament series there is. As a top tier character who is best in the game, we should expect him to win a lot of the time, but if a character in ban worthy that character should be over powered to a point where you straight up cant possibly beat the character if the player using said player abuses him to a point where its impossible to win. However, MK is the BIGGEST TOURNAMENT SERIES THERE IS FOR THIS GAME can even get at least a 50% win rate in the finals, so why should we ban a character that people have learned to beat? Sure, he's still the best, and sure, he still wins a lot, but hes the best character in the game, the best character SHOULD win the most. Broken characters that need to be banned CANT be beat, but MK can be beat as its been shown many times.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
The same way it makes sense that 3 years into the game, we still wouldnt have an general understanding of how good all the characters are.
aka, it makes no sense, but people still ran around saying that four years into the game saying that its too late to change the status quo and ban mk.
@ z'z
does the fact that still made more money than all the other characters put together at all of those apex's mean anything to you. like, the top 16 is still 60 % mk. banable and broken are not the same thing, nor should they have to be. banable should only refer to something that is too good. and mk is too good.
I understand your point. The issue is not that people want him banned because he's "broken". He clearly isn't even though he ****s on 90% of the cast. That's not the point here I think.
People want MK banned because the evolution of the metagame and the rulesets revolves around MK. To even him out with the rest of the cast.
MK can be beaten more easily in the actual setting, simply because the new rules added are usually put in place to "balance" him so to speak.
I'm in the middle as far as the ban goes. I personally like the matchup, even though I'm godawful at it.
There's something thrilling in playing a losing MU.
Have a platypus.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
p.s. less than a dozen stages in a brawl tournament is a crime.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Z'zgashi said:
A stupid and old argument that reminds me about how ignorant the Brawl community can be. You do not need to be along the lines of Ivan Ooze to be ban worthy. You do not need to be an SF2T Akuma type of broken to be banned.
You can be Dark Armed Dragon status and get banned.
You can be Destiny Hero status and get banned.
You can be Judgement status and be banned.
You do not need to be obscenely broken to be ban worthy.
Its idiotic thoughts like that which lead to the terrible stagelists and rules that were implemented today.
For real though. There's a reason I don't go to tournaments often anymore >_> (the reason is actually because I'm a lazy bum, but still)
It's definitely a lot funner without him present.
He's banned in CO currently, and ever since, the character diversity has sky rocketed. I know longer need a secondary just for dealing with MK.
It's rather nice.
He's banned in CO currently, and ever since, the character diversity has sky rocketed. I know longer need a secondary just for dealing with MK.
It's rather nice.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/limited/
Ah right, it was banned, THEN limited.
After running about as a 3 card for the longest time.
Same for a few other cards that are banned due to their nature such as Monster Reborn (though that went limited for a time), as well as Raigeki.
http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/limited/
That was my point.
It is due to the overcentralizing nature, not because it is flat out OP.
Which is my point.
Wasn't referring to Yu-Gi-Oh, was referring to the GGXX character Justice whose name I mixed up.
She isn't nearly as broken as Akuma or Ivan Ooze, but she is still banned.
Thanks for the correction on DaD and my error on Justice.
No problem, son.
Illuvial
Exploring Tallon IV
/Rant mode engaged
It sounds like we are letting the MK mains that are winning tournaments left and right decide if MK should be banned. If something is banworthy, then ban it! Don't ruin the game for the remainder of it's lifecycle based on some lame excuse of "it's too late". You are literally saying "**** the 10+ characters that will benefit greatly from a MK ban, it is too late for that, so anyone that plays those characters can **** themselves because recreating the ruleset is hhhhaaaarrrd..."
EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER BENEFITS FROM A MK BAN! Ice Climbers would become number 1 in theory, but with a more diverse stagelist that would not be an issue! DON'T YOU SEE THAT FIXING THIS GAME IS AS EASY AS BANNING THE CHARACTER THAT IS RUINING THE META!?!?!?!?!?!
/Rant mode disengaged
It sounds like we are letting the MK mains that are winning tournaments left and right decide if MK should be banned. If something is banworthy, then ban it! Don't ruin the game for the remainder of it's lifecycle based on some lame excuse of "it's too late". You are literally saying "**** the 10+ characters that will benefit greatly from a MK ban, it is too late for that, so anyone that plays those characters can **** themselves because recreating the ruleset is hhhhaaaarrrd..."
EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER BENEFITS FROM A MK BAN! Ice Climbers would become number 1 in theory, but with a more diverse stagelist that would not be an issue! DON'T YOU SEE THAT FIXING THIS GAME IS AS EASY AS BANNING THE CHARACTER THAT IS RUINING THE META!?!?!?!?!?!
/Rant mode disengaged
GalaxyWaffles
Smash Apprentice
IMO, if MK isn't banned then the meta will never evolve. Too much **** revolves around him & only him. If people want him banned then ban him. Simple. With him banned we would see a lot more diversity character wise and possibly more people would go to tourneys.
Why are the majority of people here so stupid?
Why are the majority of people here so stupid?
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I'm not your son, bro.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
lol @ ICs being #1 without MK...
theyre only number 2 now because theyre the best option against mk. without him, all the robs, ikes, yoshis, pits, zeldas, wolfs zero suits and whoever else are free to run train on them.
p.s. I run my own tournaments and i ban mk and its fantastic. everyone will bring up unbanning him once in a while but they dont really miss it, they just forgot how bad it is.
top 4 at my last tournament was Sonic, Pikachu, Mario, Lucario.... pretty fkn sweet.
oh and one last thing, nobodys ever tried it to my knowledge, but I feel like theres a half decent chance Justice would have gotten banned from GG tournaments for being brokenly powerful. As it stands she was only banned because she was console exclusive. Kliff might have been a better example for what you were trying to say, but im not sure.
theyre only number 2 now because theyre the best option against mk. without him, all the robs, ikes, yoshis, pits, zeldas, wolfs zero suits and whoever else are free to run train on them.
p.s. I run my own tournaments and i ban mk and its fantastic. everyone will bring up unbanning him once in a while but they dont really miss it, they just forgot how bad it is.
top 4 at my last tournament was Sonic, Pikachu, Mario, Lucario.... pretty fkn sweet.
oh and one last thing, nobodys ever tried it to my knowledge, but I feel like theres a half decent chance Justice would have gotten banned from GG tournaments for being brokenly powerful. As it stands she was only banned because she was console exclusive. Kliff might have been a better example for what you were trying to say, but im not sure.
Illuvial
Exploring Tallon IV
I will never run a MK legal tournament offline. EVER!
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Combined with his fastfall and multiple jumps, which you failed to mention, his "only options" of airdodge and dair are actually very fine options. Btw, you can also FF nair on top of the opponent. Its fast and lagless enough that the opponent probably won't be able to react to it. On-hit, it true-combos into utilt at low-mid%'s (and grab at low %'s) for some good damage. Then you have Inhale, and its B-reversal stuff, which I'm very surprised you didn't mention because Coney is practically famous for using those to cover his landing. Heck, even bair helps out.is stupidly easy to juggle. I haven't kept up with the thread, but who is honestly saying that? His only option to get back down while being juggled is to try to airdodge or dair (lol).
Well, in all honesty, the tools DDD uses to land are also tools he has to avoid being juggled. That goes for every character. Then he has a tool (DJ, especially combined with dair) that just helps him avoid getting juggled. "Snake can trade with a grenade or attempt to go high," but DDD can just force through you with dair if he really, REALLY wants to get his feet on the ground to replenish his jumps, and with all his jumps, he can go pretty high, too. So I'd say we have all the advantages that Snake has plus, y'know, more.....You guys mixed up the tools DDD uses to land with the tools he doesn't have to avoid getting juggled. People will hit DDD, Snake and Dk over and over and over because they don't have much. Snake can trade with a grenade or attempt to go high... that's pretty good(It's not really that good
)
This is the best way to handle banning MK. Assuming you want him gone.
This is how he ended up getting banned in CO atleast.
Everyone just started hosting MK banned tournaments until it was the most common tournament ruleset there.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
I ****ing hate you.
Your over exaggerating.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Wish it was that simple. LI started hosting a LOT of MK banned tourneys during and even after the URC MK ban. I think they even took over most of the Brawl scene, but MK-legal ones simply made a resurgence (thanks to Raptor and Vinnie and maybe Coontail as well, I think, but not sure) and now, well, MK-legal is the new standard.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
But it actually is that simple. People are just a bunch of wusses.
So by character diversity you mean Ice Climbers and Olimar?
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
YOU JERK!Your over exaggerating.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
I'm guessing you didn't watch WHOBO4.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
During the MK ban period, the most successful character without a doubt was not Ice Climbers or Olimar, but Diddy Kong.
At WHOBO 4, top 8 had Pikachu, ICs, Snake, Ike, ZSS, DK, Dedede, Diddy Kong, Wario, Toon Link, and a few others. Most top placers used secondaries too.
Why? Because with MK gone, Brawl is a super diverse CP-oriented game.
My opinion straight-up is that MK players who want to keep him legal want all of the reward without the work everyone else puts in. And because they are the best-placing players, they are a powerful lobby capable of putting their own wishes above what is best for the game and for the rest of the community. They do so by manipulating the rule sets and stage lists and by threatening to quit, etc. MK is overpowered, too central, and should have been banned years ago. Period.
At WHOBO 4, top 8 had Pikachu, ICs, Snake, Ike, ZSS, DK, Dedede, Diddy Kong, Wario, Toon Link, and a few others. Most top placers used secondaries too.
Why? Because with MK gone, Brawl is a super diverse CP-oriented game.
My opinion straight-up is that MK players who want to keep him legal want all of the reward without the work everyone else puts in. And because they are the best-placing players, they are a powerful lobby capable of putting their own wishes above what is best for the game and for the rest of the community. They do so by manipulating the rule sets and stage lists and by threatening to quit, etc. MK is overpowered, too central, and should have been banned years ago. Period.
RaptorTEC
Smash Champion
All the Impacts I've hosted have been MK banned since that was the most popular one by vote so I'm not sure what you're saying /:Wish it was that simple. LI started hosting a LOT of MK banned tourneys during and even after the URC MK ban. I think they even took over most of the Brawl scene, but MK-legal ones simply made a resurgence (thanks to Raptor and Vinnie and maybe Coontail as well, I think, but not sure) and now, well, MK-legal is the new standard.
BlueXenon
Smash Lord
Were there any top olimars at whobo 4?
I think mk's place very well at tournaments because they are good and put in a lot of work to become better.
Illuvial
Exploring Tallon IV
^^^^^^^
This guy knows what's up.
How would we go about banning him in a more universal manner though?
Without any major ruleset change, it's gonna be a progressive one.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
And everyone else puts in 20x the work they do to beat them.
MK can literally YOLO fair/shuttle loop 90% of the cast
Why is smashboards telling me to buy premium when i already have it? you can't explain that
DOn't you hate it when you're trying to cash a cheque and then the teller says "sorry sir but this number is too big to legally exist" i hate that
We stop players from doing this with our limits on MK. If we're going to claim he isn't broken, we need to let MK use his tools to the best of his ability and stop bringing him down with restrictions.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
You're gonna end up a girl when I break my foot up in your taint, ya dig?
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