Official BBR Tier List v7

[Tesh]

no, mc peepants beat ryo

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Wolf is not "too average", he's terri-awful.

"Too average" lol. He's the perfect example of how one or two really big flaws can ruin a character. It's a statistics problem; many match-ups Wolf players claim are even assume perfect play from the Wolf (ZSS, Sheik, DDD? a few other examples). "Nah man wolf can just space away from that ****ing infinite you have" and whenever they get hit by it, it's a mistake by them. But everyone makes mistakes and over the course of an entire major, there's not a player in the world that isn't going to **** up. With Wolf, ****ing up vs. some characters means you take tons of damage or lose a stock.

Wolf is bad because players aren't computers.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Wolf is bad because players aren't computers.

Except M2K

 

[Luco]

I like the summary, SM.

 

[Ishiey]

Wolf's top-tier MUs are pretty good, going fairly close to even with essentially everyone above him outside of:

MK (-1 at best imo, but still better than everyone else below him sans Fox)
Pika (agreed at -2 for the next MU chart, and there are barely any Pikas so it's not so bad in practice)
Wario (-2 at worst, results and consensus from a fair amount of mains on both sides)
D3 (should be borderline unwinnable in theory since one mistake at any % is a stock, and the margin for error is tiny, but -3 is fair).

Outside of those 4 characters then, you can more or less say that the better player will win the MU since all the MUs are reasonably close (when it comes to characters at/around/above Wolf's level). MK is MK, so this is actually pretty good in the grand scheme of things. Pika and D3 you barely see, and even then it's something that people aren't exploiting to the fullest (footstool lock, smallstep/ledge infinite), let alone those that second/pocket the characters. These aren't MUs where you should be winning against a high-level Wolf main without fair MU knowledge/experience. Wario is common as a secondary, so once again very few people know how to do the CG (the only reason the MU is in the list above). This means that Wolf's serious problem MUs aside from MK aren't going to be common in tournament, and thus won't be the main reason his placing is hindered. Metagame development should make these things more of an issue for Wolf, but since we're all bad and do mediocre in tournament there's no real reason to worry about doing so yet.

All of this is actually pretty good, tbh. A big reason to keep him down is the lack of results, which is totally fair, but compared to the characters that he'd be competing with, who can really go above him based off of all this? Pit or TL with a -2 vs MK? Perhaps, since they have decent top-tier MUs otherwise and no notable counters. G&W or D3 who have -2s against half of top-tier? lol I assume there's a reason nobody plays these characters anymore? Fox who gets straight bodied by ICs and has less even MUs in top-tier? Sure, beating D3 is nice, but when do you even see that character nowadays.

So I guess my question to those that say Wolf is terrible is, what characters would you consider better than Wolf that aren't already above him, and why?

tl;dr Wolf is still bad, but like 2/3rds of the cast is worse than him so it's all relative.

 

[Luco]

tl;dr Wolf is still bad, but not hideously bad

Is basically what you're saying.

Sorry I couldn't resist.

IMO, wolf is slightly above average: 'Borderline' actually seems like an entirely accurate name for him right now, to me at least. *shrug*

 

[Seagull Joe]

's a character that is easy to become good with, but hard to become great with. The difference in skill between the top s to the lower s is so large. Normally, I would say this applies towards most characters, but is a character that requires so much more precision, spacing, patience, and time that the differences are largely noticeable. This also tends to be the reason most people either quit him for a better character or never get "great" with him.

I think Ish is gonna be the next top if he just learned the matchup lmao.

Edit: holds everyone back in tournament Ish. That's a relative thing, not a thing LOL. If anything, mains go farther in tournament because his matchup vs is better then most. Least, this is from my perspective.

 

[infiniteV115]

What's so hard about Wolf? You just bair and dsmash.

Oh and you also laser sometimes but then it doesn't work. And grab and pummel like 7 million times and then dthrow

 

[Seagull Joe]

What's so hard about Wolf? You just bair and dsmash.

Oh and you also laser sometimes but then it doesn't work. And grab and pummel like 7 million times and then dthrow

You try it.

 

[Tesh]

Wolf isn't bad because he is hard to play. He is just bad.

 

[infiniteV115]

I did. It was pretty easy.

 

[Espy Rose]

Yeah Seagull.
Wolf really isn't that hard.

 

[Illuvial]

I was playing casuals for a few hours with some friends when we decided to do a random tournament, I was Wolf and my friend got his main (Link).

I almost 2 stocked him my first time using Wolf doing almost exactly what Infinite had posted. The kicker is that my friend plays Wolf as his third best, so he knows the Match-Up.

Guys, Wolf is hard ;-;

 

[B0NK]

 

[Luigi player]

The only thing that's kinda hard to learn (imo) about Wolf is how to recover/not mess it up...

 

[Ishiey]

I was playing casuals for a few hours with some friends when we decided to do a random tournament, I was Wolf and my friend got his main (Link).

I almost 2 stocked him my first time using Wolf doing almost exactly what Infinite had posted. The kicker is that my friend plays Wolf as his third best, so he knows eh Match-Up.

Guys, Wolf is hard ;-;

You were fighting Link lol, of course you 2-stocked him with Wolf bull****

IMO, Wolf is a character that is in a sense difficult to play at top level because of how bad things can go once you do something wrong and get hit/grabbed. One mistake tends to mean a lot for Wolf since he'll often take tons of damage or be put in a bad position, similarly to Snake (but more immediate damage and less positional disadvantage, usually). The difference is Wolf doesn't live as long as Snake or kill as early as Snake (or punish as hard as Snake), so Snake has more leeway in this regard. It's kind of like the old argument for why Marth was bad, because you need to play at a level that hasn't been observed yet to perform as well as theory indicates. Marth has recently shown that he can do that, whereas Wolf has not.

But seriously, try playing Wolf against people who know how to fight Wolf lol. It's about as easy as using Snake against people that are used to fighting him, or D3, etc. Some characters have good moves that become easier to abuse as you become familiar with them.

Playing Wolf =/= knowing how to fight Wolf btw. It takes practice fighting the character to really be comfortable with it, just like every other MU in the game.

 

[Shaya]

Spacing with wolf is kinda awkward.
I feel he's one of two high air mobility characters (Squirtle) who are really awkward with their l spacing in terms of their telegraphed movements once they're in the air. Not many characters can so actively abuse it.

 

[Illuvial]

Yeah, that is one thing I noticed with him is that his entire move set was kinda clunky and awkward, but I did enjoy playing him. I prefer his recovery and lasers to Fox's even though Fox has a superior laser, but I digress. I may replace Fox with Wolf, but I have yet to play with him again so who knows!

Seriously though, I have to ask it again, does Link have ANY decent people repping him these days?

 

[Tesh]

Nope, all the good links moved on the better characters. Once people peak with a bad character, most of them are going to look for more options to challenge themselves and stop working so hard for so little.

I could see him being useful in some matchups in theory, but he is a pretty hard character to play overall and there is a better version of him for any fanboy mains that want a chance at actually winning.

 

[infiniteV115]

Mr.R's Link is pretty good. Probably the best in the world really, cause it's Mr.R. Or maybe LordXavier, idk

 

[Tesh]

Yes, as I said, the best users of those characters won't waste their time maining them. Ganondorf might be the only low tier character where the best user might actually be a main.

Ofcourse this is imo, where PT is low tier and Lucas is mid tier.

 

[Luco]

Apparently we (Aus.) used to have one of the best in the world.

Whatever happened to Scabe?

 

[da K.I.D.]

You would know better than we would, youre the aussie here...

 

[BPx]

Zeton has been playing Link lately.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yes, as I said, the best users of those characters won't waste their time maining them. Ganondorf might be the only low tier character where the best user might actually be a main.

Ofcourse this is imo, where PT is low tier and Lucas is mid tier.

The best Samus player is almost definitely a Samus main, but Samus has a higher rate of turnover than Wal-Mart.

Then again, Quiksilver.

Don't forget Peach

 

[Coolwhip]

-You know, i really don't care about the tier list & where mario ranks.
I will continue to use the plumber & rep him in tourneys, no matter what.
win, lose or draw, it doesn't matter to me.-

 

[blacktwins13]

-You know, i really don't care about the tier list & where mario ranks.
I will continue to use the plumber & rep him in tourneys, no matter what.
win, lose or draw, it doesn't matter to me.-

Sry But Mario Doesn't Draw in this Game. i think your looking for the Game Mario Paint (troll). Also no such thing as a draw in tournament (Excluding ties for 7th place and That BS)

 

[B0NK]

So how many of you who believe Toon Link is high tier still haven't unlock the "Play Toon Link 10 Times" award on your Wii's?

 

[Seagull Joe]

I quit brawl for competitive jump roping.

So how many of you who believe Toon Link is high tier still haven't unlock the "Play Toon Link 10 Times" award on your Wii's?

He's about as good as and . The BBR just put him in HT so would win MT events even easier. Success .

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

but toon Link has so menny projektiles dere's no way he can not be high teer

oh an @bunk i used 2 mane toon Link so i think i no wut im tocking aboot

 

[Illuvial]

Toon Link belongs with the other Borderlines. He just has too little room for error (along with other flaws) that just hurt him far too much for him to be a high tier.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

TL needs like 2 frames off all his aerials and a real kill move.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Sh airdodge>Utilt works 98% of the time. The 2% is when you Sh airdodge>Usmash. All this talk and no quest to be found...I miss him already.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

All this talk and no quest to be found

yeah wtf is up with that?

 

[Dekillsage]

toonlink is mid tier ;__; )7

 

[Illuvial]

I don't support Toon being mid tier since he does have a good chance at winning big tourneys with proper match-up knowledge (MJG vs. Otori at Apex proved that) and a little bracket luck.

That is why I support the Borderline tier so much, characters like Toon, Wolf, ROB and Pit finally have a place that properly shows where they are in relation to other characters.

 

[Jabejazz]

yeah wtf is up with that?

**** I dunno man. Could be related to the ****storm from a couple pages ago. Then again, I'm no Sherlock Holmes.

 

[pidgezero_one]

I'm back! Did you guys miss me? I missed you too. <3

Wolf is not "too average", he's terri-awful.

"Too average" lol. He's the perfect example of how one or two really big flaws can ruin a character. It's a statistics problem; many match-ups Wolf players claim are even assume perfect play from the Wolf (ZSS, Sheik, DDD? a few other examples). "Nah man wolf can just space away from that ****ing infinite you have" and whenever they get hit by it, it's a mistake by them. But everyone makes mistakes and over the course of an entire major, there's not a player in the world that isn't going to **** up. With Wolf, ****ing up vs. some characters means you take tons of damage or lose a stock.

Wolf is bad because players aren't computers.

That's one big-ass infinite.

's a character that is easy to become good with, but hard to become great with. The difference in skill between the top s to the lower s is so large. Normally, I would say this applies towards most characters, but is a character that requires so much more precision, spacing, patience, and time that the differences are largely noticeable. This also tends to be the reason most people either quit him for a better character or never get "great" with him.

I think Ish is gonna be the next top if he just learned the matchup lmao.

Edit: holds everyone back in tournament Ish. That's a relative thing, not a thing LOL. If anything, mains go farther in tournament because his matchup vs is better then most. Least, this is from my perspective.

I would like a moment for rebuttal

 

[SaveMeJebus]

One of the main reasons Wolf is bad is because a very limited character. Other than F-air and B-air, he doesn't really have much to approach with. This means Wolf is forced to mix up his approaches way more than most characters. If he had a better way to force an approach, this wouldn't be much of a problem.

 

[SoulJoker]

One of the main reasons Wolf is bad is because a very limited character. Other than F-air and B-air, he doesn't really have much to approach with. This means Wolf is forced to mix up his approaches way more than most characters. If he had a better way to force an approach, this wouldn't be much of a problem.

I agree beyond those approaches he doesn't have much going for him. The most he has is a shield that can break him out of tornado and a gun. His gun is quite useless in its self. It's not like Falco's whose can be used in a way to keep opponents at a distance for a while and to tack on that extra percent while Wolf's is slow, extremely predictable, and easily dodged.