Official BBR Tier List v7

[NAKAT]

What s have I lost to? In the past two years I've played Kt once and no other s. I must be wrong of course because I'm arguing with the great Quest.
I'd love to hear a list of your wins that make you appear better then your attitude at least.

It ain't worth it. Just move on son.

 

[NAKAT]

Ahh i'm glad ya think so!
Just curious, because I thought for sure the other cario's would wanna talk about it.
It's one of those MU's that plays out like a game of cat and mouse. Fox should be able to keep us out and control the flow of the match majority of the time, but the occasional slip up leads to alot of damage and gimp attempts.

Actually, trela had a MM against a Fox player quite sometime ago to show how quick the tide of battle can be turned in that MU thanks to our stupid attack strings. It's a little old, but it still feels like how it's played out today.

Yea I agree with you. I am really basing it off my set vs Trela at SKTAR. I've played a lot of Lucario's before that though and it feels the same. At the highest level though (Trela) I would say it's about -1 Lucario.

 

[bubbaking]

Fun Fact. I had NO notable wins in 2010. I didn't start going to tournaments until November of that year and I was a new Yoshi player. I don't know why you're assuming I even had wins back then. In fact I only had 2 notable wins in the entirety of 2011. It wasn't until summer of 2012 when I started pulling out all my big wins so I have no clue what you're talking about xD

And yet you still ended up as an arguably top 5 NA Yoshi. Impressive.....

 

[Dekillsage]

Raptor is so ****ing good it blows my god damn mind.

Raptor
WHY U SO GOOD?!?!

 

[bubbaking]

Raptor, did you ever get that crazy 'combo' you had on Pane during our teams friendlies put up on YT?

 

[RaptorTEC]

Nah. It was hype when I did it during the match but when I rewatched it it just felt stupid lol. 5 fairs in a row should never connect... xD

 

[NH Cody]

Fun Fact. I didn't start going to tournaments until November 2010 so having any notable wins as a new Yoshi player is impossible... In fact I only had 2 notable wins in the entirety of 2011. It wasn't until summer of 2012 when I started pulling out all my big wins so I have no clue what you're talking about xD

I completely made up that year. I figured he was referring to your win on Atomsk and others from the distant past.

What s have I lost to? In the past two years I've played Kt once and no other s. I must be wrong of course because I'm arguing with the great Quest.
I'd love to hear a list of your wins that make you appear better then your attitude at least.

Yeah KT recently and Jerm a while ago. I thought you were alluding to Raptor's wins from the distant past so I alluded to your record from the distant past.

if you MUST know some of my wins, then I beat some people at Apex. I'll put this in a spoiler.

Spoiler

I beat Zero Tay, the top German ZSS, in pools; Hall, the west coast Snake main, in pools; LOE1 in a $10 MM; Shadow1PJ in a $5 MM; Raziek, who was on the Top 5 Marth list, in a $5 MM; Zekey, the DDD main who was trashtalking me on AiB, in a $5 MM; Southpaw, the TL who was also claiming he was better than me in the top 5 thread, in two $10 MMs; Archer, the Toon Link/Meta Knight main in a $5 MM; and a couple others whose names escape me. If we're counting friendlies with people I never played in bracket, then I have a lot of wins there too. In New England tournaments I consistently beat just about everyone, even the best Diddy main in New England, who is supposedly a "top 10" player in the region. My loss record for the past few months is pretty legit, as I only lose to the top 2-3 players.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I completely made up that year. I figured he was referring to your win on Atomsk and others from the distant past.



Yeah KT recently and Jerm a while ago. I thought you were alluding to Raptor's wins from the distant past so I alluded to your record from the distant past.

if you MUST know some of my wins, then I beat some people at Apex. I'll put this in a spoiler.

Spoiler

I beat Zero Tay, the top German ZSS, in pools; Hall, the west coast Snake main, in pools; LOE1 in a $10 MM; Shadow1PJ in a $5 MM; Raziek, who was on the Top 5 Marth list, in a $5 MM; Zekey, the DDD main who was trashtalking me on AiB, in a $5 MM; Southpaw, the TL who was also claiming he was better than me in the top 5 thread, in two $10 MMs; Archer, the Toon Link/Meta Knight main in a $5 MM; and a couple others whose names escape me. If we're counting friendlies with people I never played in bracket, then I have a lot of wins there too. In New England tournaments I consistently beat just about everyone, even the best Diddy main in New England, who is supposedly a "top 10" player in the region. My loss record for the past few months is pretty legit, as I only lose to the top 2-3 players.

But who have you beaten in NE besides Sails? You said you consistently beat everyone, but who does that entail?

Those people are ok. LOE1 is one of my favorite kids.

 

[Illuvial]

So now bashing Wifi players is valid? As a Toon Link player you of all people should recognize how great Wifi can make a player. Just look at MJG

Is Quest always this silly?

 

[bubbaking]

Why do the TLs think they lose to DDD? That's just silly.

 

[NH Cody]

I mean, I could give names, but you'll probably just laugh and assume they're not as challenging as they actually are.

I've beaten KC24, joe ST, peachkid, hinkage, lordxavier, somacruz, almo, etc. The point is I'm not bad and I'm tired of people randomly coming at me and questioning my knowledge of the game. I feel I am qualified to be in this thread especially in comparison to a few others.

 

[bubbaking]

There is no such thing as "qualified to be in this thread." Shut up with that silly talk.

Edit: We question your knowledge when you make empty arguments that challenge the very UN-empty arguments of the best player of a certain char.

 

[Illuvial]

Last I checked we all had the right to discuss the tier and meta game in this thread and forum. Why must people be aggressive towards others?

Why can't we, be friends? Why can't we, be friends? Why can't weeee be frieeeeeends!?

 

[RaptorTEC]

I completely made up that year. I figured he was referring to your win on Atomsk and others from the distant past

You think summer of last year up until now is the distant past?

As for the wifi subject, I think it's extremely helpful for learning mu's. But if you ONLY play wifi you will never get far or remotely close to it. People naturally adapt to what they see is working, and if they only play wifi they're not going to realize that a lot of the things they're adapting to is useless. I started off on wifi and went to my first tourney and got bopped. I was one of those wifi kids who thought they were the ****. It wasn't until I played Delta in that tournament that I realized I was terrible. Anyway, if people are going to use wifi to practice they should go offline too so they can see what actually works and what doesn't.

 

[Bloodcross]

Hah!

Casuals!

 

[RaptorTEC]

Bloodcross, I heard you're the best green MK in NE vs gardener hat Jigglypuff on Wednesdays after sunset. Confirm?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Back into the topic of the Tier List:

 

[Seagull Joe]

Back into the topic of the Tier List:

's form of a rectal exam.

 

[Bloodcross]

There’s more than one way to reach the goal. Yes, to each his own. My motivation was very different than Quest's. My motivation was to be the best, to be the greatest Brawler alive as I always have been, until Quest came into the picture. Quest's success was like a demon in my head. How could he be a super Brawler when I the prince of all Brawlers could not? The intensity of my training was maddening. At four hundred and fifty times Earth’s normal gravity a basic training game became a desperate struggle for survival. Even the simplest moves required every ounce of willpower I had. I wasn’t sure how long I could sustain the effort without breaking in two. It seemed like the only thing holding my body together was my one desire to be better than Quest. At times I thought I was losing my mind. Why couldn’t I obtain what Quest had obtained? It didn’t make sense. It was infuriating and it was my fury that kept me alive. I decided to continue my training in the solitude of space where I would be unhindered by the distractions of the Earth and when a violent electrical storm erupted in the skies of the planet I was on, I welcomed it. It seemed fitting like it was an outward manifestation of the storm that was raging inside of me. Then the meteors started coming down but I was determined to survive and to protect my ship from destruction. It was my only way out, my only way off that nightmarish heap of rubble. I thought I had everything under control but then the mother of all meteors seemed to appear out of nowhere to claim my ship and my life. Normally it would have been child’s play to blow up that rock but after training at four hundred and fifty times normal gravity for so long it took everything I had and more. “Queeee ssssttttt….” Then something just snapped, something inside of me. “No! No more! That’s it! I don’t care!” I didn’t care anymore. I didn’t care about being better than Quest. I didn’t care about being a super Brawler. I didn’t care if I lived! I didn’t care about anything and then IT happened. Yes, that’s how it happened. That’s how I became a super Brawler. The sleeper has awakened. I am the prince of all Brawlers once again on Wednesdays after sunset!

 

[infiniteV115]

Toon Link; Didn't Read

 

[blacktwins13]

Our definitions of mid level play is probably different.
I consider myself a mid level player, and numbers almost never beats me

and i consider myself to be the most *** player in the world. raptor help me so i can be good like you

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Snake is bad. He sucks in the air and has no OOS options other than shield grab that do not involve dropping his shield. The reason why he looks so good is because at mid to mid high levels, grenades are great for forcing approaches and Snake is great at punishing mistakes. At higher levels, players learn to avoid grenades and stay away from Snake's good zones. His tilts are still great at high levels but not as great. At higher levels, you should rarely be getting two hits off of the f-tilt. U-tilt can also not be easily spammed at higher percents.

 

[Dekillsage]

Snake is bad. He sucks in the air and has no OOS options other than shield grab that do not involve dropping his shield. The reason why he looks so good is because at mid to mid high levels, grenades are great for forcing approaches and Snake is great at punishing mistakes. At higher levels, players learn to avoid grenades and stay away from Snake's good zones. His tilts are still great at high levels but not as great. At higher levels, you should rarely be getting two hits off of the f-tilt. U-tilt can also not be easily spammed at higher percents.

His pros outweigh his cons. Don't feel like writing books anymore explaining how suuuuupahhh snake is ;_;7

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Like I said, he still is a top tier character even if it is at the bottom. I just don't think he is ever going to get anywhere near to where he once was

 

[Dark.Pch]

SFP, Mr Eric is horrible. Choking and not having the right mindset is part of skill.

Sure, continue praising a random twelve-year-old who's somehow "amazingly talented" when he loses to Ness as Marth. have fun with that.

It's Ness vs Marth, lolol. let's get real for a second.

You are a freaking joke. First off, you have not beaten anyone big to even be putting others down. Marth lost to a Ness. That makes the player bad? M2K and the great japanese players who played higher then alot of americans top players lost to a freaking ZSS. You wanna go and call them horrible for that as well? Lose a match up you win and that makes you a bad player. Stupid freaking logic. One of the dumbest things I have ever heard from a typical smasher.

I have watched him play offline. He has a smooth Marth. Patient and trys to be safe. He is not some typical Marth that likes to push buttons so much and panic to the F-B's or up-B. He is doing well for someone who is starting to come to tournaments. Sage has been stepping his game up giving people like Jbandrew problems. Sage had the win on him game three last weekend. And Jbandrew has to lame him out to win. Mr.Eric nearly beat Sage in tourny in a close game playing really freaking well. One of the hypest sets of the tourny. I don't see nor hear you bringing any hype.

I actually told Mr. Eric to not be discourage by the lost and that he played really well. Then nearly beat a hella smart player such as shaky. Horrible players don't do things like this. If you would have joined the tourny, Mr.E would have outplaced you. I'd put money on that one. If you would of had to fight him in tourny, he would have mopped the floor with your ass too.

I don't understand why people in this community are so freaking stupid. You think cause you have a blue name on AIB, that gives you the right to talk ****? You have not done anything epic kid. So don't open your mouth and bring others down cause you mad. Someone like Mr. eric trying and working really had and pays off quite well for his first few tournies. While someone like you who went to apex, did all these money matches and etc is still seen as a joke and none give a **** about you.

So quit disrespecting upcoming hard working players and being a scumbag when you seriously have done anything big. Just go back to feeling good about yourself on wifi and stay there.

The BBR panel does not just want a skilled players, but players that are well spoken, have experience, and a firm grasp on how most of there character MU's are played out. Being more skilled then another players does not necessarily mean you are more knowledgeable or more qualified.

I'm gonna call BS on that. I applied for the panel. I was voted more then the others to be on it. And I not get in for a stupid reason of owing someone something. I actually keep alot of info about Peach in general and her match ups. I don't feel like typing it all so you can just see how I get to work here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss91wEqdD1k

Peach is not better than Fox or Wolf though. Like......no.

Stick with your opinion. And I will stick with mines. Seeing the way people judge things and go solo on image, ALOT of people are gonna think the same thing. Just like how players are lazy in matches, they are also lazy to do proper research.

People just don't expect things to change. Let's say I was to agree that Fox does go even with MK. He is not the only character in this game that you have to worry about. People need to get off this nonsense already. What about the rest of the high tiers? People keep ignoring this lil detail just to make their character look good. Peach does well vs IC ,Olimar, ZSS, Pikachu and Wario. Her Major problem out of the obvious character is Marth. Out side of charater match ups:

Peach
- Better ground game
- Better air game
- Better pressure game
- More options to finish off a player
- Better edgeguarder
- Walls better
- More options of recovery
- More range
- Harder to punish on block (with solid pressure, it forced to side step/roll. Leads to better educated guesses for baits and punishemts)
- Better punishments out of shield.
- Safer ways to get back on stage from the ledge (like getting up on the ledge and doing any action under 8 frames and be completely invinicble thanks to float landing)
- Versatile projectile
- Can fight with projectile in hand both in the air or grounded.
- Frame traps better
- Can fake out an opponent better on stage thanks to her wavedash.
- Better at approaching
- Harder to gimp/punish recovery
- Don't have to worry about 0-nearly death/death nonsense.


Fox

- Forces an approach better.
- Faster.
- Racks up damage better from a distance.
- Better air fake outs for safe landings on recovery thanks to his D-B mixed with his dair
- Better ceiling kills
- Kills Faster
- Better Pivot grab
- Recovers faster
- Refreshes moves better
- Can stall in the air

Im not gonna sit here like alot of people in the community and base stuff planing on image or word of mouth. Just because many people think the character is garbage and won't ever let this 08 image go already. I for one look at all area of characters and match ups before I say anything. I don't go by image and word of mouth. Nor worship the tier list and results to make things set in stone.

Fox ain't better, and nether is Wolf.

 

[Vermanubis]

I mean, I could give names, but you'll probably just laugh and assume they're not as challenging as they actually are.

I've beaten KC24, joe ST, peachkid, hinkage, lordxavier, somacruz, almo, etc. The point is I'm not bad and I'm tired of people randomly coming at me and questioning my knowledge of the game. I feel I am qualified to be in this thread especially in comparison to a few others.

And you're telling me that <my> experience is invalid? No offense to any of these players, of course. None of them are bad. But, none of them are high-level. No one's saying you're bad, but it's the fact that you pontificate as if you're experienced, which, judging by the above list, you're not, at least to justify your 'tude. Everyone has a right to share their opinions in this thread, good or bad, but it's your attitude that makes you difficult--not your opinions.

If you want your input to be taken seriously, back it up with results; not a mouth.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Read a few pages, this is quite entertaining.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

tl;dr Marth beats everyone 55:45 in the realist of meanings. He loses maybe 4-5 matches 45:55. In terms of extremes, D3 is probably the only character who pushes those probabilities further than 45:55 but it comes down to a specific part of the MU in which the paradigm for MUs in Brawl right now tends to disregard it.

What's Marth's record like with MK? My understanding is that despite the loads of theorycraft suggesting it's not a huge disadvantage Marth gets knocked out by MK all the time.

I think the 2008/2009 feeling that Marth gets wrecked by MK is still pretty true, tbh. Sure, Marth can do a lot onstage but off-stage is a mess.

 

[Luco]

Quest, you can't sleep on mr. Eric because he lost to shaky. That's like calling M2K a bad player a year back when he lost to Ocean. -3 MUs aren't impossible dude.

 

[Seagull Joe]

The church of Verm is a way of thought/life many should take up. Verm for my favorite poster.

 

[Luco]

The church of Verm is a way of thought/life many should take up. Verm for my favorite poster.

You're late to the club, bro.

Took me a while to phrase that right.

 

[IceArrow]

I mean, I could give names, but you'll probably just laugh and assume they're not as challenging as they actually are.

I've beaten KC24, joe ST, peachkid, hinkage, lordxavier, somacruz, almo, etc. The point is I'm not bad and I'm tired of people randomly coming at me and questioning my knowledge of the game. I feel I am qualified to be in this thread especially in comparison to a few others.

Wow, am I really that bad that Almo and Lord X go before me.

 

[RaptorTEC]

>_____> Seriously?

 

[Dekillsage]

Someones butt hurt

 

[da K.I.D.]

When a Link player is on you list of high profile wins, You might not have any high profile wins.

but for real, it doesnt even matter all that much who you play outside of giving people a basis for your thoughts, but as long as you back up your statements with proper evidence, then people will listen to you. If you feel that people arent listening to you here, typically its more because of who you are as a person, rather than who you are as a player.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

When a Link player is on you list of high profile wins, You might not have any high profile wins.

but for real, it doesnt even matter all that much who you play outside of giving people a basis for your thoughts, but as long as you back up your statements with proper evidence, then people will listen to you. If you feel that people arent listening to you here, typically its more because of who you are as a person, rather than who you are as a player.

True. This leads to people agreeing more with conservative viewpoints even if they don't really agree, because they don't want to be seen as stupid. Conventional thinking is hard to unseat in a community where the only way to be seen as intelligent is to agree with everyone else or win a lot.

Doesn't matter to me. I welcome your scorn. I'm also always right.

 

[NH Cody]

And you're telling me that <my> experience is invalid? No offense to any of these players, of course. None of them are bad. But, none of them are high-level.

did I say they were high level?
did you not read my previous post with some of my other good wins?
as if you are anywhere near them in terms of skill?
when you just admitted to not having entered a tourney in seven months?

No one's saying you're bad, but it's the fact that you pontificate as if you're experienced, which, judging by the above list, you're not, at least to justify your 'tude.

You're horrible and are nowhere near as experienced as I am. Your attitude is what caused the problem initially. Stop being a hypocrite.

learn to read.

If you want your input to be taken seriously, back it up with results; not a mouth.

You have no results and your mouth says ignorant things like always. My results are 10x better than yours have ever been.

It's funny how you just said "anyone can give input" but now they have to back it up with results?
then you can't post cause you have none.

Wow, am I really that bad that Almo and Lord X go before me.

I said etc.

When a Link player is on you list of high profile wins, You might not have any high profile wins.

says the person who has no recent high profile wins at all and enters like 2 tourneys every 6 months.
did I say that he was a high profile win?
was that the only post I made about wins? or was that specifically in response to Seagull Joe asking about New England?

Remember last time you made an ignorant comment and I advised you to stop being illiterate and read before going on random rants?
you might want to work more on that that.

 

[Vermanubis]

We've reached Nash equilibrium folks. There is no reasonable way for me to decisively determining trolling or not.

Also, seriously, Quest. You can ride someone's ass as much as you like, but please try to do it respectfully (unless it's me, in which case, call me anything but late for dinner). This thread is usually pretty heated, but there's a difference between someone who's contentious and someone who's just being straight catty. I have a feeling that that attitude is gonna see you out the door here pretty soon if you don't cool it with the temper.

 

[mikeray4]

I mean, I could give names, but you'll probably just laugh and assume they're not as challenging as they actually are.

I've beaten KC24, joe ST, peachkid, hinkage, lordxavier, somacruz, almo, etc. The point is I'm not bad and I'm tired of people randomly coming at me and questioning my knowledge of the game. I feel I am qualified to be in this thread especially in comparison to a few others.

All those people from NE are bad. The best one from that group is hinkage and you only beat him 1 time (he pooped on you the next time). The other time you beat him was at an MK banned tourney. Sails is a FAIR diddy kong, all of his 2 wins on good players have come with hours of studing videos of them. ( and he's still 1-8 with me and BC).


As of right now YOU ARE NOT a notable player from this region, you ARE BAD. You haven't even place top 3 at a tourney that has 3 PR players at it. I'm sure anyone you mentioned besides sails will agree that beating them does NOT mean you are good.

 

[NH Cody]

You have no idea what you're talking about. stop trolling me. you clearly didn't even read my other posts.

by the way your bias is showing when you say "Hinkage isn't bad but KC is" when KC is a significantly better player than Hinkage and always beats him in tourney when they play. I didn't just beat Hinkage once. I beat him twice AND I beat him in friendlies last tourney with a character I don't even normally use. And yes I did get top 3 in January. Fatal, Koolaid, KC and Sails were all there and even YOU claimed that Sails is a top 10 player. So you're wrong.