Official BBR Tier List v7

[Supermodel From Paris]

then snake makes the majority of the rest of the cast unviable.

This is only true if he gets far enough in bracket to fight one of those characters. MK round 1 or 2 would be kind of a blower. Also, Snake isn't invalidating anyone right now if Ally isn't at the tournament. LOL

 

[Dekillsage]

This is only true if he gets far enough in bracket to fight one of those characters. MK round 1 or 2 would be kind of a blower. Also, Snake isn't invalidating anyone right now if Ally isn't at the tournament. LOL

That's because all the snake players live in New England. Razer retired but he was a dominate force in his region(along with gnes). Even if snake loses to a mk or pika in winners he'll just beat the other chars the mks put in losers to advance.

 

[da K.I.D.]

...you use ZSS LOL. obviously this is not true for the radically different MUs like Olimar/ZSS/peach where a little aggro is okay.


..anyone good? o.o

Stop trying to defend Vermanubis. He's obviously over-inflating his character

and youre obviously over inflating your ego.

Unlike you, verm has actually given solid reasonings for his opinion. Whereas you have done nothing but come up with bs reasons to try and discredit him. at least say something about the matchup besides "Hurr Durr I throw stuffz i winz"

 

[NH Cody]

stop being an illiterate airhead and actually read what I said. He was quite clearly the one who didn't give any reasonings. He even admitted that he was just drawing on "his experience." from like 2009. and his aib ladder matches. and his friendlies with jerm. these things are srs bsns. If you're going to argue based on "experience" then you better have a ton of it and be able to specify.

also rofl @ *da KID*, the most conceited braggart around, accusing me of inflating my ego. lolol

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

IMO if you're gonna flame someone it should be either Seagull Joe or Thiocyanide.

 

[NH Cody]

Seagull Joe I usually ignore unless he says something meaningful. I haven't formally met Thiocyanide anywhere yet.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Just as a side note/trivial fact:
The other day I was looking at many videos of several Toon Links and I noticed all of them, every single one of them would Z-air in the exact same fashion.
Jump backwards>Airdodge>small delay>Move Forward>Zair.
It was so weird to watch.

 

[NH Cody]

were those videos by any chance from 2009?

 

[Dekillsage]

Tls have been doing that since 2008. Nothing has changed

 

[NH Cody]

I think kyokoro's referring to sh airdodge zair. That definitely is not as common today

maybe in certain MUs like Olimar but not most.

I don't see why this is relevant or why we're wasting time with this.

 

[ぱみゅ]

For one, I said it was trvial. Second, there was no time lapse between them. Probably mid 2010 and newer. Third, they all were against DDD. Fourth, yes, it was SHZair. Fifth, it was relevant because I always wonder why such a fast attack gets powershielded everytime.

 

[infiniteV115]

I find TL players don't really mixup the timing with their zairs that much. That's probably the main reason behind it getting PSed so often.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Snakes only bad match ups are Mk-2 falco-1 pikachu-1
olimar is even/ in the 45-55 range
diddy kong is +1.It's not an even match up.
Marth isn't a bad match up either. It's in the 50-50 range as well
+1 Ics

then snake makes the majority of the rest of the cast unviable. You can play him solo... you just have to be the best. Snakes would rather complain though, its fine.

does not beat +1. does though. I don't know if I necessarily agree that is -2 with , but I guess it's possible.

IMO if you're gonna flame someone it should be either Seagull Joe or Thiocyanide.

LOOOOL.

Seagull Joe I usually ignore unless he says something meaningful. I haven't formally met Thiocyanide anywhere yet.

Aw shucks.

I think kyokoro's referring to sh airdodge zair. That definitely is not as common today

maybe in certain MUs like Olimar but not most.

I don't see why this is relevant or why we're wasting time with this.

o_O. It's been done from 2008-2013. Go home Quest, you're drunk.

For one, I said it was trvial. Second, there was no time lapse between them. Probably mid 2010 and newer. Third, they all were against DDD. Fourth, yes, it was SHZair. Fifth, it was relevant because I always wonder why such a fast attack gets powershielded everytime.

Because it's expected so people have their hand on their shield command automatically.

is annoying to fight, but not super hard. Just outright annoying cause there are projectiles everywhere. Sometimes I get lazy and just outcamp, bair/reflect projectiles, and laser because has that easier option compared to the rest of the cast where you got to ps everything.

 

[NH Cody]

MK does kinda give Snake the business.

*Zero just beat Ally*

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

MK does kinda give Snake the business.

*Zero just beat Ally*

And at the same time, I can't remember the last time Ally lost to MK before Zero.

 

[Seagull Joe]

MK does kinda give Snake the business.

*Zero just beat Ally*

Zero didn't **** him. He lost 3-1. That isn't indicative of a -2 matchup when Ally hasn't lost to like any other besides M2k (?) who he beat in 2 sets last time O_O. If anything that just validates the matchup is a slight disadvantage seeing how Ally won a game. I cannot remember what stages Zero won on because that's also a huge factor.

 

[infiniteV115]

Zero won on SV game 1, lost on FD game 2 (Ally's CP), won on Halberd game 3 (his own CP, not Snake's) and won on BF game 4 (Ally's CP)

 

[Seagull Joe]

No one beats Zero on halberd. If Ally banned it, the set would've probably been slightly different (At least in round counts).

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Yeah, at this point I'm always dumbfounded when I see people allowing Zero to go to Halberd.

 

[Seagull Joe]

My stage list needs to be used (Probably the fairest one):

Neutrals
and Yoshi's Island: Brawl

Counterpicks
and Pokemon Stadium 1.

When are people going to realize is overpowered on Halberd/Delfino?

 

[infiniteV115]

I think if anything he had a better chance of winning on Halberd than he did on Delfino/Frigate (idk which he banned). But yeah Zero's phenomenal on Halberd

 

[Espy Rose]

My stage list needs to be used (Probably the fairest one):

Neutrals
and Yoshi's Island: Brawl

Counterpicks
and Pokemon Stadium 1.

When are people going to realize is overpowered on Halberd/Delfino?

Pokemon Stadium 2 please.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Lists like that make me die a little inside.
At least add PS2 and make it FLSS. There, the same stagelist one I used last time I made a MK-legal tournament (except it was Halberd instead of Frigate. If you ban it, where else can MK take you?)

 

[NH Cody]

how does 60:40 metaknight's favor sound...

 

[Vermanubis]

stop being an illiterate airhead and actually read what I said. He was quite clearly the one who didn't give any reasonings. He even admitted that he was just drawing on "his experience." from like 2009. and his aib ladder matches. and his friendlies with jerm. these things are srs bsns. If you're going to argue based on "experience" then you better have a ton of it and be able to specify.

also rofl @ *da KID*, the most conceited braggart around, accusing me of inflating my ego. lolol

First of all, not to say it invalidates your opinion, but when the consensus is unanimous that you're full of it, then it might be a good idea to, if not change your opinion, at the very least reflect on it a little and consider that the odds of you being the only one who's not an idiot are relatively low.

Secondly, even friendlies or WiFi are good MU samples. I think it's pretty well-kept that WiFi's, or any online function's sole virtue is to learn MUs. The underlying implication is that you know more than all of these Toon Links, and that you'd be the champion in proving just how severely TL beats Ganon. Were high-level tournament matches from the past 6 months all that mattered in considering MUs, then Ganon's MU spread would be 80% blank due to, by your standards, nonviable information.

Lastly, your attitude isn't helping. Knock it off with the name-calling, please.

 

[Attila_]

To many unqualified opinions for my liking. Someone should just ask ally what he thinks about these mus and get it over with. I do believe ally agreed a while back that snake wasn't as good as people make him out to be.

Snake as a character barely wins anything. Ally, on the other hand, wins everything, and is the only reason that anyone gives any credit to snake.

 

[Crackle]

Anyone have a guess at top 3 or top 5 for the next tier list were it released today?

I don't know what to think about IC's or ZSS or Snake right now...

 

[Seagull Joe]

I'm joining the church of Verm.

 

[Vermanubis]

I'm joining the church of Verm.

Welcome.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Random but I love how Verm and DLA (sorta) just look like METAL as **** dudes.

Sorta like: "You must be this badass to use this character" sorta thing

 

[NH Cody]

First of all, not to say it invalidates your opinion, but when the consensus is unanimous that you're full of it, then it might be a good idea to, if not change your opinion, at the very least reflect on it a little and consider that the odds of you being the only one who's not an idiot are relatively low.

1. there is no such "consensus"
2. no one important has agreed with you in this thread. other than maybe DLA. Way to fail at appealing to popularity.

3. it's funny how you say this

Knock it off with the name-calling, please.

when you've been openly condescending and just randomly called me "full of it." Hypocrite much?

Secondly, even friendlies or WiFi are good MU samples. I think it's pretty well-kept that WiFi's, or any online function's sole virtue is to learn MUs.

okay, but you still haven't revealed your examples of the people you've played, or even when.

The underlying implication is that you know more than all of these Toon Links

no, this is something you made up on the spot.

and that you'd be the champion in proving just how severely TL beats Ganon.

really? I don't recall saying that either.

Were high-level tournament matches from the past 6 months all that mattered in considering MUs, then Ganon's MU spread would be 80% blank due to, by your standards, nonviable information.

Again, you're changing my argument to something else that I never said. Where did I say that it had to be a "high level" match, or that it had to be within the last 6 months... I specifically stated that as far back as a year would be fine. If you can't even bring up ONE DARNED GANON main who has played in tournament for a year, then there's no way you can be claiming this character is at all relevant and that his metagame has been advancing significantly more than TL's to the extent that he can somehow beat TL. while there were 200 toon link mains working on strategies to improve the character.

also you still haven't responded to any of my posts about why it's impossible for ganon to get in. You've just been ranting about your "experience" and trying to degrade me. can't say anymore until you answer those.

 

[DeLux]

Epistemology why >_>

Be nicer please, thank you

 

[Vermanubis]

Well, it's not that you said it, but rather, it's necessarily implied. Also, if you think being called "full of it" qualifies as name-calling, then I think we might have to put you away for a bit. (I also don't think that I've been condescending, either)

Anyway, I did give both examples of who I played, and how it's possible for Ganon to get in. NAir is just one option, since it cancels out arrows and it creates a wall for TL to get past. His primary recourse is to use boomerangs. That isn't to say Ganon has an easy time getting in, which I think you're mistaking me to say, rather, that it's not impossible. One Ganon catches TL, it's lights out, thanks to his bad roll. If you want a more thorough list of possibilities, Ganon can NAir OoS on a blocked BAir/NAir (from any distance), which is TL's primary close-up pressuring tool. He can NAir through most of his projectiles, and obviously, he dies about 4x as early as Ganon. Oh, he can also DA OoS against most blocked aerials as well. As for the ZAir, TL's ZAir is a very minor poking tool. Unlike Samus, he has nothing he can set up from it unless he goes postal and charges like a rhinoceros. A PS > NAir can punish any ZAir attempts because, unlike Link and Samus', TL's is itty-bitty.

As far as his metagame goes, there've been tournament-goers, but you mocked the idea of MU samples being from a year ago, and I think the most recent tournament that had a Ganon in it was me 7 months ago. However, make no mistake; characters can find new strategies, but TL's been found out--it's not as though his metagame has evolved to such a point that his aerials are no longer punishable on shield, that his arrows go through NAirs, his ZAir got longer and that he no longer dies at 100%.

 

[NH Cody]

and I think the most recent tournament that had a Ganon in it was me 7 months ago.

this is ridiculous, why are we still discussing this horrible character

Anyone have a guess at top 3 or top 5 for the next tier list were it released today?

I don't know what to think about IC's or ZSS or Snake right now...

1. metaknight. 2. olimar 3. snake because of dabuz

even though it should be 1. meta knight 2. snake 3. olimar

 

[Espy Rose]

Random but I love how Verm and DLA (sorta) just look like METAL as **** dudes.

Sorta like: "You must be this badass to use this character" sorta thing

He can probably eat children.

 

[Vermanubis]

You say that as if you haven't witnessed it personally.

 

[Crackle]

this is ridiculous, why are we still discussing this horrible character






1. metaknight. 2. olimar 3. snake because of dabuz

even though it should be 1. meta knight 2. snake 3. olimar

You think snake and olimar are the next best thing since metaknight eh? What about your 4 and 5?

Anyone else have a top 3 or top 5 guess and reasons?

I personally think diddy is somewhere in the top 5. I am iffy about the whole idea of snake or olimar being top 3 with their severe deficiencies (snake in air, olimar off stage).

 

[Seagull Joe]

 

[NH Cody]

why would ICs be in the top 3? they have no results

 

[Crackle]

You're right Quest, Vinnie doesn't exist and Esam/Ally aren't using IC's for certain matchups as of late