Official BBR Tier List v7

[bubbaking]

You mean M2K likes him, since NJ = M2K.

 

[Delta-cod]

And Japan.

 

[bubbaking]

Nah, even Japan had to bring in crazy rules to keep him in check. Fox is practically an MK counter over there.

Edit: John12346 lurking this thread. Yo, I'm on Skype!

 

[SKYLO]

I knew it! Olimar was always one of my best. But so is Mr.Game & Watch... If only he was a middleweight *sigh*

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

He's not banned because Japan has him legal, and they came and wrecked us. The Smash community values player skill over reasoning ability and so he was unbanned.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Actually, he was unbanned because he doesnt deserve to be banned. Only reason he was banned in the first place is because out of nowhere a big pro ban bandwagon came along, and everyone thought it was cool so they joined in. Then, once its time had passed, they all got of it and boom, no more ban.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Zz, MK is broken and you should feel bad.

 

[Shaya]

It's the lack of a national level TO willing to run MK banned events.

I think a lot of people in the states are willing to travel (especially atlantic south area due to megabus / general large population centres / proximity) for such events. MK doesn't need to be "banned", in the same way that we don't need to "ban" pictochat or brinstar. If the general smash populace hasn't gotten it yet then we're going to keep going in circles over this until the next game hopefully subdues its interest (can you imagine us *****ing about MK in brawl with us being a year or so into the next game? for some reason I think it's possible)

 

[clowsui]

**** you shaya you massive **** I am running a Mk ban super regional in march where's the love bro

 

[Shaya]

You're right bro, sorry~
I haven't been paying much attention to what's going state-side since I've been back and it slipped my mind

 

[Death Arcana]

Zz, MK is broken and you should feel bad.

i second this
and everything mink stands for

 

[Luco]

Zz, MK is broken and you should feel bad.

We never have to worry about banning MK in our tournaments because we don't get any, unless they travel from America.

Come to Australia, dudes.

 

[Tesh]

Alot of prominent pro-ban TOs and top players have quit. Almost everyone left in the Brawl community openly desires or at least tolerates MK being legal.

Moral of the story is that you can't keep MK down for long, so you might as well give up.

 

[Luco]

Alot of prominent pro-ban TOs and top players have quit. Almost everyone left in the Brawl community openly desires or at least tolerates MK being legal.

Moral of the story is that you can't keep MK down for long, so you might as well give up.

... Or come to Australia where he's not prominent.

We get Marths and Warios and Falcos and Snakes here... and like nothing else. >_>

 

[bubbaking]

He's not banned because Japan has him legal, and they came and wrecked us. The Smash community values player skill over reasoning ability and so he was unbanned.

That actually makes sense when you think about it. I play this game to contest another person's skill, not reason with him, and the same goes for spectating. It's a lot more hype to witness awesome tests of skill than to worry about the legitimacy of what's happening.

If Japan is coming here and showing us that they are more skilled than we are, then perhaps we can afford to take a page from their book. Then again, we have to remember that their situation and circumstances are a lot different from ours. Their tournaments only have a few neutrals legal, these tournaments are usually single elimination, and these same tournaments have FREE entry. Such things shape their metagame (and tier lists) differently from ours.

 

[DMG]

Actually, he was unbanned because he doesnt deserve to be banned. Only reason he was banned in the first place is because out of nowhere a big pro ban bandwagon came along, and everyone thought it was cool so they joined in. Then, once its time had passed, they all got of it and boom, no more ban.

Well actually, what happened is people were willing to make rules and change the stage list for MK. What happened after Apex? We didn't just unban MK, we shifted more over towards Japan's ruleset and people to this day consider going even further with a ground/air time limit. Someday in the future, Brawl will only be played on 3-5 stages and it will never be because of any character besides MK ever. To be completely honest, I dunno why every match isn't just played on FD SV BF at this point.


That was the biggest change or impact: be more like Japan. Japan came with MK and won with MK. After that event, even though MK became legal he was also saddled with a worse ruleset for him. Less CP's, more people giving a damn about scrooging, larger timers, etc. They have a secret, so we gotta go find it. Emulate their rules and we achieve success.


The general shift in attitude was more like fine, we can have MK but regulate him better. Because plenty of even anti ban people were not happy with RC or XYZ stages because of MK, were not happy with 8 min MK, were not happy that there was still some potential to stall with MK, etc. MK became legal, but taxed regulated and carefully monitored.

Alot of prominent pro-ban TOs and top players have quit. Almost everyone left in the Brawl community openly desires or at least tolerates MK being legal.

Moral of the story is that you can't keep MK down for long, so you might as well give up.

Lot of people quit Brawl in general. MLG tossing us out was a huge blow to our prospects.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Look dude. One reason I'm never going to Australia.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_funnel-web_spider

 

[Nido]

We have deadly snakes too

 

[Luco]

Look dude. One reason I'm never going to Australia.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_funnel-web_spider

ROFL! If you're coming to Sydney, honestly you should be more worried about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_brown_snake

But we have hospitals and they don't really show up in suburban areas anyway. Well, at least the snakes don't. Anyway, just avoid the undersides of bricks and houses and you're totally fine.

Australia is like, the land of the venomous. We have poisonous snakes, spiders, scorpions... I was about to say venomous birds but as it turns out, the spur on the Plover doesn't actually inject venom, though it is a common myth.

And anyway, who cares about them when you can come to a place where MK doesn't dominate?

 

[Steam]

MK is banned in my region. the only reason why I still play this game.

and we don't have to implement any dumb rules for the sake of keeping him. just, whoosh. gone. easy.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

MK is legal in my region, the only reason why I still play this game

 

[Nido]

MK is legal in my region, the only reason why I still play this game

^ This

 

[Grim Tuesday]

MK is banned in my region but everyone still uses him in friendlies to prepare for interstate tournies.

It leads to a more diverse metagame than either pro or anti ban.

 

[Steam]

^ This

seems like a pretty masochistic approach.

*would have quoted jebus but has had him blocked for about a year*

 

[Nido]

MK isn't that hard to deal with though

 

[Espy Rose]

Then you'll have no problem at APEX. Go for the gold, kiddo.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

MK is banned in my region. the only reason why I still play this game.

and we don't have to implement any dumb rules for the sake of keeping him. just, whoosh. gone. easy.

This, for sure.

MK is banned in my region but everyone still uses him in friendlies to prepare for interstate tournies.

It leads to a more diverse metagame than either pro or anti ban.

Also, this. No harm in it, really.

 

[BSP]

MK isn't that hard to deal with though

When you restrict teams to 1 MK at most, take away most stages, and even regulate him on the stages that we do have legal, he's at least "manageable".

Even then, the ditto is still the best option.

 

[bubbaking]

MK is banned in my region but everyone still uses him in friendlies to prepare for interstate tournies.

It leads to a more diverse metagame than either pro or anti ban.

Well, that's only because at least one region doesn't have him banned. SOMEONE has to take the hit for all of you. That's pretty much what happens at fests on LI too, even though around half of all the the tourneys there have him banned. Actually, I think we on LI do it the best. About half of our tourneys have him banned and the other half have him legal. It's probably 'cause Raptor runs one half and Vinnie runs the other half.

When you restrict teams to 1 MK at most, take away most stages, and even regulate him on the stages that we do have legal, he's at least "manageable".

Even then, the ditto is still the best option.

In my PR at my university, I have him banned, but I have a 'Gentleman's Clause' in place stating that if both parties agree to it, he can be chosen. Same goes for teams, but double MK is permanently banned. We pride ourselves on variety! We have a lot of decent people who play mid/low tier chars in both Melee and Brawl.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

**** Australia.

Holy ****.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

When you restrict teams to 1 MK at most, take away most stages, and even regulate him on the stages that we do have legal, he's at least "manageable".

Even then, the ditto is still the best option.

Teams and singles are two completely different games. MK can actually drill break and have his partner tornado him to safety. It also doesn't help that most top MKs like teaming with other top MKs. We always ban stages before characters. We ban Pirate ship instead of banning characters who can rudder camp. The best character in every game is almost always going to be the best option against itself

 

[DMG]

Top MK's teaming with each other shouldn't be the reason to ban MK. In fact that sounds entirely scrubby, like punishing people for doing well.

If Double MK is banned, it's due to how stupid the team is, not because "Well Jason and Anti teamed so they already won". Even now, you've had people argue Double MK isn't technically the strongest team, but that it dumbs down competition too much and requires the other team to also have MK.

MK himself in Doubles is entirely unhealthy and should have been banned a long time ago in Doubles. Singles is iffy, but everyone and their grandma ****ing hates MK in teams. Double MK too good, but MK + top tier partner isn't? MK Wario/G&W/Lucario is the standard you want? lol

 

[SaveMeJebus]

The thing is that we don't have very many players who are only dedicated to playing doubles. If we did we would see more character diversity.

 

[DMG]

You'd see a lot more character diversity if you banned MK himself in Doubles. Whobo was a perfect example of that, I mean absolutely perfect.

Either way, argument shouldn't be ban it cause too many top players just team with themselves and do Double MK. It should be whether the team is ****in lame or not. It IS lame, but then now what? Ally switches to Snake instead of doing double MK with his partner? Instead of 2 MK's on a team, they split up and now every team has 1 MK? Yeah whole lotta diversity there.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I never said that was a reason. I just said it didn't help. Most team combinations haven't even been tested out more than once at top level or even at all

 

[bubbaking]

If Double MK is banned, it's due to how stupid the team is, not because "Well Jason and Anti teamed so they already won". Even now, you've had people argue Double MK isn't technically the strongest team, but that it dumbs down competition too much and requires the other team to also have MK.

MK himself in Doubles is entirely unhealthy and should have been banned a long time ago in Doubles. Singles is iffy, but everyone and their grandma ****ing hates MK in teams. Double MK too good, but MK + top tier partner isn't? MK Wario/G&W/Lucario is the standard you want? lol

As lame and all-purpose as he is, he isn't any worse in Brawl teams than Fox is in Melee teams. That guy does everything you could possibly want him to do and double Fox is just as lame as double MK, yet in a game with MUCH less diversity than ours, they don't ban Fox or double Fox from teams. I'm for banning double MK, but I don't think banning MK entirely is the right option. There are some team combos that can't be accessed via MK, such as G&W/Pika, PK Kid/ZSS, DDD/anyone, etc.

 

[Luco]

**** Australia.

Holy ****.

We wuv you guys!

And I only just noticed what bubba did to his sig.

Lucas + pika team = too OP.

 

[bubbaking]

My sig...?

 

[Luco]

Oops, sorry, I meant avatar. :o

 

[bubbaking]

Mr. Eh is a genius!