Official BBR Tier List v7

[bubbaking]

Well, for the most part, Sakurai 'confirmed' that he's working on new movesets for new characters. Old chars might just stay the way they are. Btw, did you know that Fox was balanced around being very 'easy to suicide with'?

 

[Shaya]

that pretty much means remakes on mk and ice climbers (and maybe oli)... for the love of god.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

MK doesn't need a remake, he doesn't have range or KO power (excluding a few moves that could be adjusted)

 

[bubbaking]

I see what you did there.

Edit: About Sakurai's balancing of Fox, his exact quote was, "I got asked once by a student 'Is Fox really strong in Smash Bros. Brawl because you like Star Fox?' Absolutely not. I don't balance things based on that. These are very important titles that the creators and fans are leaving to me. In the worldwide online rankings, Fox's winning record is right in the middle of all the characters. The idea with him was a character that suicided often, but made up for it with other skills, but I guess that prominence gave him this image of being really powerful."

The student's question actually makes sense since Fox is Top Tier in Japan.

I guess we can also conclude from that quote that Sakura is using Wifi match results as his data for whether he got his 'balance' correct, and for all his intents and purposes, I guess he did.

 

[John12346]

I am EXTREMELY worried about that excerpt because it essentially means that Sakurai MAY be intending to balance the game based on Basic Brawl results, which unfortunately are dominated by Ike, Pikachu, and Kirby, among anyone carrying a reflector around...

(yes I play Basic Brawl from time to time, long story...)

 

[pidgezero_one]

Please please please we don't need another melee kirby

 

[Iota]

Sakurai balancing off of basic brawl...? Someone stop this madness.

 

[Player-1]

lol but fox is garbage in this game

 

[bubbaking]

Wow, it all makes sense now! If Fox was balanced around counteracting his 'suicide-ability', then MK's current state is clearly warranted. He's light and all of his specials can put him into free-fall! He must be a SD paradise... Buffs pl0x!!!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

To be fair, MK players do suicide a lot

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm gonna start playing Basic Brawl and SDing all my stocks so that ZSS gets buffed

 

[PMC66]

I'm pretty sure Ganon's back roll is faster than jigglypuff's mobility.

Its easily +1 ganon.

i'm laughing at the sarcasm not because it's true.

But honestly anybody that tries to give Ganon any slack as a character should keep their mouth shut or they'll look stupid :3.

Seriously put him in his own tier he looses to every character in the game. I rarely see characters as poorly made as Ganondorf put him in I tier or whatever.

 

[bubbaking]

Hey, you're back. Ganon's results say otherwise, btw. Also, can someone explain to me why Ganon loses to Falcon? I can kinda understand Bowser and Link by intuition, but why Falcon?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I'm gonna start playing Basic Brawl and SDing all my stocks so that ZSS gets buffed

Not to take the discussion in this route. but I have doubts that zss will even be in smash 4

 

[Iota]

There should be more characters from the metroid series.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

RID-MOTHER****ING-LEY

caps

 

[Iota]

It'd be cool to have a space pirate or one of the bounty hunters from metroid prime hunters in smash 4 too.

 

[infiniteV115]

Ridley/Kraid/Space Pirate/bounty hunter from MPH seem like the only possibilities really.
Or maybe that black dude from Other M, can't remember his name. Or Adam Malkovich (but I doubt it)

Dark Samus/SA-X are unlikely cause one of the major changes from Melee-->Brawl was the elimination of 'clones', I doubt they're going to bring clones back/add new clones.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Hey, you're back. Ganon's results say otherwise, btw. Also, can someone explain to me why Ganon loses to Falcon? I can kinda understand Bowser and Link by intuition, but why Falcon?

cuz a good falcon will dance circles around ganon, due to the obvious difference in speed.

 

[Iota]

The idea that Ridley could make the cast is delusional.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Ridley is cool as a boss (along with MetaRidley), and he should stay like that, imo.

 

[pidgezero_one]

it's be cool if the balloon fighter from balloon fight was a playable character i think i'd main him

 

[Raziek]

Guys, we have an entire separate forum for this discussion of Smash 4 potential characters.

Use it.

 

[pidgezero_one]

balloon fight is relevant in every subforum

 

[infiniteV115]

If a spammy Samus = Spamus
Then a campy Samus = Campus


imo

 

[pidgezero_one]

What the heck are you tlaking about infiniteW115

 

[Grim Tuesday]

imomu s

 

[bubbaking]

cuz a good falcon will dance circles around ganon, due to the obvious difference in speed.

A difference in speed shouldn't really dictate a MU value, though. Otherwise, Falcon wouldn't be such a bad character, and Sonic's MUs would be a lot better than they are. How does Falcon get in safely? Sorry, but I'd like a good explanation for why Ganon loses to Falcon, and to me, just Falcon being faster isn't good enough reasoning. Sheik is tons faster than DDD but that's not a losing MU for him.

Dark Samus/SA-X are unlikely cause one of the major changes from Melee-->Brawl was the elimination of 'clones', I doubt they're going to bring clones back/add new clones.

Wolf and Lucas. And Ike. Also, arguably TL.

#Invalidated

Ridley is cool as a boss (along with MetaRidley), and he should stay like that, imo.

Bosses can make good characters, IMO. See: Ganon, DDD, and MK. I personally think Ridley would make a great addition. In fact, I wouldn't mind if they just cut out Zard and gave Ridely a lot of his traits a la Mewtwo to Lucario.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Wolf and Lucas. And Ike. Also, arguably TL.

How the **** can ANYBODY consider Ike a clone of anyone?

 

[Player-1]

Ike is a diddy clone

 

[infiniteV115]

Wolf and Lucas. And Ike. Also, arguably TL.

#Invalidated

Similar characters =/= clones.
In Melee, clone pairs like
-Dr. Mario + Mario
-Fox+Falco
-Marth+Roy
-Link+Young Link
-CF + Ganon
-Pichu + Pikachu

Had almost identical movesets and animations, with only minute differences (eg Mario is slightly more mobile than Dr.Mario but his moves do slightly less damage, same goes for Marth+Roy but Roy had fire, a scaling counter and his sword was WEAKER at the tip, Falco's lasers and shine were different from Fox's and he was slower, etc etc)

Wolf is not a 'clone' of anything. Not even close. His entire moveset is fundamentally different from that of both Fox and Falco. Yeah they're all Star Fox chars with lasers and a reflector, but if you look at the rest of their movesets, animations and playstyles you'll see they're not really similar enough to be 'clones'.

Ness and Lucas are somewhat similar but again they're just not similar enough to be labelled 'clones'. Not even close. Their attacks and movement styles are completely different.

Ike and Marth...are you serious? -.-
Their only similarities are that they're both from FE, they both have swords and they both have a downB counter.

With TL I suppose you could make a case of him being Link's clone but the similarity between TL and Brawl Link is much smaller than the similarity between Melee Link and YL. With those two, literally all their moves were the same except Link's were bigger and stronger, TL's arrows and sweetspot dair had fire, his upB was bigger and multihit and...actually I think that's it. They even moved in the same way, with Link just being a little slower.

In Brawl, TL and Link are almost completely opposite in their movement styles, though they do have all the same moves outside of the boomerang, bair, usmash and fair. If anything I'd label them semiclones.

The point still stands that the elimination (or attempt at it) of clones from Melee --> Brawl was one of the major changes between the two games. Dr. Mario, Roy and Pichu were completely removed, Falco and Ganon had quite a few of their moves changed and TL and Link were made completely opposite in their movement styles.

Also keep in mind that in the Metroid series, both Dark Samus and SA-X are meant to be literal clones of Samus (well...I guess it's arguable for Dark Samus but she turned out to be pretty much identical to Samus, just with a few additional capabilities that probably wouldn't work in Smash 4. With SA-X it's definitely not arguable). Including them in the next game would mean they either de-clone from the Metroid series (which wouldn't really make any sense) or stay true to the Metroid series and reintroduce clones in the smash series, which would defeat the purpose of all the changes they made between Melee and Brawl.

 

[Espy Rose]

Sonic's MUs are bad because people are still shockingly ignorant about what Sonic can do.
Heck, Wolf players are starting to think they +2 us. It's laughable.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

In fact, I wouldn't mind if they just cut out Zard and gave Ridely a lot of his traits a la Mewtwo to Lucario.

I think I wanna address this now.

What traits did Lucario get from Mewtwo? Their Neutral B is similar, their Usmashes and Jab have a similar animation. They're both Pokemon. That is literally EVERYTHING they have in common.

Mewtwo has just as much in common with Lucas as he does with Lucario lmao. Same giant double jump, similar Dsmash. Dtilt is similar, Lucas's just has way less range.

 

[infiniteV115]

Just because Lucario replaced Mewtwo doesn't mean they're similar, lol.
eg Ike and Roy.

(@bubbaking)

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Just because Lucario replaced Mewtwo doesn't mean they're similar, lol.
eg Ike and Roy.

(@bubbaking)

tbh, I would say Lucario replaced Pichu (rep of newest Gen at time of making) while PT replaced Mewtwo (Gen 1 Rep)

 

[pidgezero_one]

ness and lucas aren't clones unless you consider "attacks having the same name" to be the only characteristic of a clone

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Yeah, and if Ike and Marth are clones then Pikachu and Jigglypuff must also be clones.

Cuz they come from the same game and all.

 

[pidgezero_one]

ike is marth clone coz he got a counter and uses a sword lololol

 

[Espy Rose]

Lucario is a Marth clone because he has disjoints and a counter.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Everyone is a clone of everyone because they all have jabs