Official BBR Tier List v7

[Z'zgashi]

I still dont think any characters should be banned.

 

[Vkrm]

I don't agree. You ever played third strike? In the console version you can unlock gill, the end boss to the arcade mode. Gil has got to be the strongest street fighter character who has been, and if he was available in the arcade during sf3's tourney lifespan ALL serious matches would've been Gil mirrors.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Im talking about Brawl, lol.

 

[| Big D |]

It would be a shame if ICs got banned at this stage of the meta game.

There is a lot of room to grow for ICs. Right now there are ATs that are known but haven't been taken advantage quite yet. With practice we can extend our options vastly.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

What does that video show that's worth checking out?

I was under the impression (from both personal experience and watching ICs players) that pivot desyncs (those ones that are named after Lux, dunno if pivot is the correct word) are the best kind 90% of the time; and then there are just a few situational ones that help here and there.

 

[| Big D |]

Well for one thing we can buffer desyncs from any move including shield.

While SNDs are good they won't always be the best option, and using the best option in the right scenarios can become the difference in a stock.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Cool.
All the Brawl ICs should play Melee.

Our character has so much undiscovered potential right now, and is infinitely more fun than the Brawl version.

 

[Phoenix Lord']

BBR is good, I'd say.

 

[Luco]

Naw Falco's alright
I'm telling you, MK+ICs+Oli banned tournies are the way to go.

I agree with zzgashi that no-one should be banned.

I don't really like the idea of banning MK, Oli and ICs and maybe falco for moral reasons: I'd hate to be told I couldn't main my character anymore because he was considered to be 'broken'. (also Lucas is pretty good at splitting up the climbers, he has no reason to approach falco... and oli + MK match-ups aren't too bad :3 )

 

[Grim Tuesday]

MK is pretty bad, just obscure enough that the Lucas can scrape out wins imo.

 

[Luco]

MK is pretty bad, just obscure enough that the Lucas can scrape out wins imo.

Not sure tbh. A -2 atm but it's still winnable if you're a better player.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

From what I saw of M2K vs. Mekos, looked like -3 material to me...

 

[-LzR-]

The only reason ICs and Olimar are so damn amazing right now is because the more you nerf MK the more you buff those. Remove MK, bring back RC and such and then they suddenly aren't that good anymore.

 

[Luco]

From what I saw of M2K vs. Mekos, looked like -3 material to me...

That's possible but for some reason i'm not convinced. I dunno, maybe it was just how he did take back a stock rather quickly on his final life.

I don't doubt it's in MK's favour but -3 seems a little harsh to me. Outplaying is outplaying but I don't really think the options MK has versus the options Lucas has warrant it a -3.

I'm not a top player though and haven't versed nearly enough MKs (does it strike you as odd that so many players here use Marth and Snake? Lucas' worst nightmare...)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

We don't exactly have enough data to suggest that Olimar/ICs are a problem... >_>

I'd like to remind everyone that Marth dominated the Melee metagame for, what, the first 6 years of the game's life? I don't recall any hasty moves to change the ruleset and ban... FD or something to nerf him.

And now the best player in the world is a *Peach*. Just because lots of characters are top tier, doesn't mean they need to equally share the glory.

Luco: Hehehe, NSW is out to get you! I dunno, MK/Lucas could be -2
It just feels like he can cover every option. Of course, if MK messes up on one of those coverages then he can get punished pretty hard...

 

[Jeff the Killer]

Ike has a problem with recovery, but is crawling up.
Toon Link is going up albeit he is not as strong as Link and is much, MUCH easier to KO.
Meta Knight will soon plummet because of Olimar.
Snake is going DOWN that tier list.
Just wait for Link's biggest redemption. He will soon share the list with Olimar. (Besides, Link is in the front of the cover, plus he IS Sakurai's favorite character)
Captain Falcon will be the same. So will Luigi. So will Ness.
Mario is going to go down due to him being the ONLY 64 veteran to change down specials.
Marth is going up still.

Some of this will happen. Link, Ness, Luigi, Falcon and Olimar will be indefinite. We all know Snake is going to star KO down that list, sadly.

 

[Luco]

Ike has a problem with recovery, but is crawling up.
Toon Link is going up albeit he is not as strong as Link and is much, MUCH easier to KO.
Meta Knight will soon plummet because of Olimar.
Snake is going DOWN that tier list.
Just wait for Link's biggest redemption. He will soon share the list with Olimar. (Besides, Link is in the front of the cover, plus he IS Sakurai's favorite character)
Captain Falcon will be the same. So will Luigi. So will Ness.
Mario is going to go down due to him being the ONLY 64 veteran to change down specials.
Marth is going up still.

Some of this will happen. Link, Ness, Luigi, Falcon and Olimar will be indefinite. We all know Snake is going to star KO down that list, sadly.

Yes but you have to consider Link's weaknesses *passes the torch on to a person who can explain it way better than I can*

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ike has a problem with recovery, but is crawling up.
Toon Link is going up albeit he is not as strong as Link and is much, MUCH easier to KO.
Meta Knight will soon plummet because of Olimar.
Snake is going DOWN that tier list.
Just wait for Link's biggest redemption. He will soon share the list with Olimar. (Besides, Link is in the front of the cover, plus he IS Sakurai's favorite character)
Captain Falcon will be the same. So will Luigi. So will Ness.
Mario is going to go down due to him being the ONLY 64 veteran to change down specials.
Marth is going up still.

Some of this will happen. Link, Ness, Luigi, Falcon and Olimar will be indefinite. We all know Snake is going to star KO down that list, sadly.

Is this enough to get you banned? What's the policy on troll accounts here?

 

[Luco]

Is this enough to get you banned? What's the policy on troll accounts here?

I do not believe Jeff is trolling. When I was new I believed my main/secondary were top tier material.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Mario is going to go down due to him being the ONLY 64 veteran to change down specials.

10characters

 

[EthereaL]

Melee doesn't......lol just kidding (Im not kidding.) My opinion is that banning would be good for brawl in theory. The URC intended for the ban to breathe some life into brawl by increasing character variety. It just didn't work out that way. Instead of getting timed out by mk's you get CG'ed by D3 and laser camped by the space turkey. Brawls real broken, with or without MK.

I just wanted to point out that if you're defining "broken" as characters having difficult/impossible-to-overcome advantages, then Melee is far more "broken" than Brawl.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

...Every top tier in Melee has several even match-ups and at least one unfavorable match-up, depending on who you ask.

wut

The fact that bottom tiers get ***** worse doesn't make up for that advantage; they are equally unviable in both games (i.e. completely)

 

[Luco]

10characters

Most people hate the fact that he changed Dspecials and I guess at a casual level (honestly not sure about competitive) his old downB would seem better...

Maybe?

@ Ethereal: Yeah, one of the first games I played I went Ness against a Jigglypuff on the IC stage. Got destroyed so quickly because rest is so dang broken. ><

At the same time, certain CGs in Brawl are just as broken.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The only reason ICs and Olimar are so damn amazing right now is because the more you nerf MK the more you buff those. Remove MK, bring back RC and such and then they suddenly aren't that good anymore.

Actually Olimar is very powerful on Rainbow, Brinstar and many other banned stages such as jungle japes. If anything the current ruleset is holding him back because he doesn't gain any particularly powerful stages [his best is currently Castle Siege imo] while he still has to deal with MK, Falco and ICs whom Olimar can hardly beat on 'neutral' stages. If MK were banned and 'janky' stages were legal Olimar would have at least two highly benefitial stages against his two worst remaining match-ups. Those stages won't make his evenish match-ups against Snake, Marth or Wolf worse either - Wario is the only match-up that will likely become worse for Olimar. Overall it's still a massive boost for Olimar.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

^I am so glad that I'm not the only one who feels this way.
The "janky air stages" are quite underrated for grounded characters.

 

[Vkrm]

I'd like to remind everyone that Marth dominated the Melee metagame for, what, the first 6 years of the game's life?

that's not completely true. Shiek the first 3years, then fox from 07 to present day.

 

[infiniteV115]

I agree with zzgashi that no-one should be banned.

I don't really like the idea of banning MK, Oli and ICs and maybe falco for moral reasons: I'd hate to be told I couldn't main my character anymore because he was considered to be 'broken'. (also Lucas is pretty good at splitting up the climbers, he has no reason to approach falco... and oli + MK match-ups aren't too bad :3 )

I never said any of them were broken. My point was that banning them could cause a boost in brawl's popularity because everyone hates them because they're boring in most MUs.

 

[Vkrm]

I wouldn't expect brawl to get a second wind after banning mk. I expect most people don't care who's viable, they don't want to play the game competitively for reasons other than bad balance. Besides, brawl doing fine as far as tournament attendance last I checked

 

[Vinylic.]

That's because lots of players do something hype. Pretty much the number one thing I want to see in competitive brawl.

 

[DMG]

You all better pray to god Nairo doesn't pull a M2K one day and fly away LOL

 

[tarextherex]

Mk is fine, banning him won't exactly bring life into the game but the fact that the URC made that big announcement and all about banning him made new players think he was undoubtebly broken and they didn't ask any real questions about it since they might as well keep the best character banned to make things easier for them

Oli sucks just nair through his **** and punish his landings. It's a MU that requires more adaptation but it doesn't break the essence of smash

Banning Nana's throws and footstool would be understandable though, cgs aren't unbeatable but they do change the game too much tbh. Even without infinite they would still be high tier material, hell they might stay the same placing since they would still do about 20+% with a grab and can kill with a grab. They also got a lot of untapped potential with desyncs

 

[-LzR-]

There is no reason to ban ICs chaingrabs.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ike has a problem with recovery, but is crawling up.

He already went up, and if he DOES go up any more, itll be just a spot or two. Ike is definitely a decent character, but hes pretty perfect where hes at atm.

Toon Link is going up albeit he is not as strong as Link and is much, MUCH easier to KO.

Power isnt everything, otherwise Bowser would be much higher. The reason Tink is so much better is because hes safer, faster, has a better recovery, and doesnt get locked/combo'd/etc anywhere near as hard.

Meta Knight will soon plummet because of Olimar.

I can guarantee you MK isnt going anywhere lol.

Snake is going DOWN that tier list.

Possibly, but if so not by much. Hes further down than hes ever been before and quite honestly, I cant see him any lower than he is now cuz Snake is still a VERY solid character (get it, cuz Solid Snake)

Just wait for Link's biggest redemption. He will soon share the list with Olimar. (Besides, Link is in the front of the cover, plus he IS Sakurai's favorite character)

Pretty sure MK is his favorite character seeing as Sakurai created the Kirby series and MK was his own 'special project' that he worked almost exclusively on. Also, favorite =/= best (although in brawl it kinda worked out that way), just look at Kirby in Melee. Lol. And as to why Link is bad, its because 1. he cant recover, 2. he gets combo'd/locked/chained WAY too hard, 3. his moves come out too slow (frame 6 jab, really?), 4. his movement is pretty slow, 5. he gets wrecked by basically all of top/high tier, and much more.

Captain Falcon will be the same. So will Luigi. So will Ness.

Falcon has 0 priority, Luigi is slow as balls and cant approach, and Ness has a big grab release problem and a lackluster recovery. Could see Ness move up a bit I guess, but Falcon/Luigi have nowhere to go but down imo.

Mario is going to go down due to him being the ONLY 64 veteran to change down specials.
Marth is going up still.

As someone who uses Mario, his down b change has nothing to do with his drop lol. While I do prefer the nado, its mostly due to Marios lack of range and priority.


Aaaaaand thats that

 

[Mekos]

From what I saw of M2K vs. Mekos, looked like -3 material to me...

Nah It isn't that bad. U gotta know the back story for that. M2k and I were at Chudats house for that tourney and spent the night.

We played mad friendlies and during the friendlies he asked me what to do in various situations and I taught him.

Then we met in tourney and he did just what I told him.
Basically I taught him how to shut me(my specific mixups and recovery) down and he did. lololol

 

[Vkrm]

They shouldnt ban ic grabs but I do dislike how they are abused in the current meta. I don't think it's fair 1 grab equals a stock, thats not depth. I dont want to start an argument but let me ask you guys something, why did sakurai think something like c.Falcon's u-air>u-air>knee is unfair, but then puts in an easier 0-death with chaingrabs?

 

[DeLux]

He also designed ICs in the context of FFA with items I imagine

Try playing ICs in an FFA with items and let me know how many 0-deaths you can get

 

[Z'zgashi]

Cuz Falcon's knee feeds off of swag.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i dont see how IC chain grabs in brawl are any different from wobbling in melee aside from the fact that its easier to die (thus, easier to kill nana) in that game.

 

[Vkrm]

I agree it's a problem in both games. In melee however, the characters are better at killing each other. Having two characters to fight with and babysit is an entirely investment in a melee environment.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Oh god, if the chain continues, and AI keeps improving...

Nana is going to just keep getting HARDER and HARDER to kill, until eventually, she'll become unstoppable...

Im calling that in Smash 8, Solo Nana will be god tier.