Official BBR Tier List v7

[Uncle]

This has nothing to do with the tier list.

This thread hasn't been on topic since page 340, so you may as well "report" everyone who has posted since then.

To steer it back on topic, you guys were talking about G&W earlier. I don't see the little dude rising much higher than where he is now. His MUs with top tier (except for Wario and Pikachu) are just too lackluster. His representation isn't really getting any better either. Vinnie plays ICs more than Gdubs from what I've noticed, so that leaves us with.............Alphicans, Pwii, and Penta?

They're all talented players, but I'm willing to bet that even they'd agree that Gdubs is C Tier at absolute best. He's a decent character that can make a fine secondary or co-main, but he's not viable on his own. He's kinda like D3 in that regard, except that he doesn't counter anywhere near as many mid/low-tiers as the King does.

 

[PMC66]

Like I said, Vinnie might inflate some of them for G^W lol. His opinion of the character is higher than most people.

Also sorta depends on how you rate MU's in the +/-. If -2 only translates to 6:4, or if you include 65:35's in that range, would change it as well.

Game and watch does not beat Wolf,

even with MK i loled

 

[| Big D |]

I'm disappointed, if I were to call him out, I'd be like...

This has nothing to do with the tier list.

Backseat modding is considered spam.

On that note, I know Alphicans is not using as much Gw as he used to, perhaps he would agree with you.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

G&W is another one of the Dedede problems. He beats everyone below him, but falls short with those above him.

That being said, there are only 3 characters that GnW is below average against (in order) IC's, Marth, DDK.

He is -1 against Olimar, Snake, and Falco.

He is between -1 and -2 against MK.

He beats Wario and Pika and he beats or goes even with all of high tier as well.

I think he should rise a little bit, but saying he should be 10th without having any real tournament success to back it up is a bit of a stretch. I would personally put him over Dedede.

 

[Iota]

Wario doesn't lose to GW, It's even.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

GnW has a very slight advantage. Our nair shuts down Wario's air game easily. All that Wario has is his waft, which is pretty difficult to land, especially with GnW's UpB.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Neither GnW can land a kill move properly, both of them are very annoying against each other.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

GnW can kill with a fresh fair as well as out of a tech chase.

I'm not saying it's 6:4 Or anything like that, but we do have the slight advantage.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

GW doesn't beat all characters below him. He doesn't beat Fox, does't beat Sonic and probably doesn't beat Pit and DK either.

 

[DMG]

Depends on what you mean by beat. He doesn't 6:4 all of those characters but he's got a few 55:45/kinda leaning his way. Fox probably the closest to even out of that group, or like Wolf.

 

[Uncle]

I personally think it's even. Both characters have a lot to worry about from each other. Gdubs can effectively harass/wall Wario with proper use of Nair/Bair/Uair, but Wario can effectively take a more (but not entirely) grounded approach in this MU. The threat of Grabs, FSmash, Waft, and Uair will make GDubs tread with caution. I'd say Wario has the edge in kill reliability, while Gdubs has the edge in controlling airspace.

 

[Luigi player]

Many characters in mid and below go like even with gaw.

 

[Delta-cod]

Adding onto that list, Yoshi definitely goes even with GnW.

 

[PentaSalia]

G&W is very viable, everyone just sucks loool.

I'll agree with C tier

Also G&W doesn't **** everyone below him, but most of his matchups mid and below are slight advantage to solid. A couple are even but it's debatable.

 

[BSP]

Who's better, GW or DDD?

Edit: nvm, that's a boring one

How about Lucario v Zero Suit?

 

[infiniteV115]

I always think of Lucario and ZSS as being about equally good but now it seems like Lucario just loses too hard to MK and DDD :\

 

[RaptorTEC]

That guide also said a good strategy with MK is to use Dimensional cape twice quickly to confuse your opponent. Also as diddy, take out a banana and throw it to your opponent. If it hits that gives you enogh time to charge your peanut gun to shoot them. Those were the funnier ones lol

 

[Iota]

I personally think it's even. Both characters have a lot to worry about from each other. Gdubs can effectively harass/wall Wario with proper use of Nair/Bair/Uair, but Wario can effectively take a more (but not entirely) grounded approach in this MU. The threat of Grabs, FSmash, Waft, and Uair will make GDubs tread with caution. I'd say Wario has the edge in kill reliability, while Gdubs has the edge in controlling airspace.

This is a pretty good summary imo. The biggest mistakes I see Wario mains do in this MU are wasting their double jump for air camping and generally focusing on vertical spacing rather than horizantal/diagnolish spacing. It's an even match up but the majority of Wario mains don't know it so it ends up looking in GW's favor lol.

 

[-LzR-]

I think it's one of the most even MUs in the game.

 

[zmx]

I always think of Lucario and ZSS as being about equally good but now it seems like Lucario just loses too hard to MK and DDD :\

ZSS loses just as badly if not moreso to MK. At least Lucario has beaten top MKs in the past.

I'll give you DDD. But Marth also loses to DDD and he's still where he is.

 

[-LzR-]

Wait what. Did you just say Marth loses to DDD?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Marth losing to DDD isn't that outlandish.

 

[-LzR-]

If by lose you mean not even.

 

[| Big D |]

Marth loses to Dedede.

He's like the only one who can shield grab fair, and he can reliably get Marth to the ledge to exploit his recovery.

Not to mention ftilt out spaces Marth on the ground and bair does a number in the air.

It really is Dedede's favour.

 

[infiniteV115]

ZSS loses just as badly if not moreso to MK. At least Lucario has beaten top MKs in the past.

I'll give you DDD. But Marth also loses to DDD and he's still where he is.

Lol no she doesn't.
DDD and ROB have also beaten top MKs in the past, it's still a terrible MU. Granted imo Lucario does better against MK than both of them, but it's still a fairly bad MU.
And Marth doesn't lose to DDD as badly as Lucario does.

 

[Shaya]

Marth loses to Dedede.

He's like the only one who can shield grab fair, and he can reliably get Marth to the ledge to exploit his recovery.

Not to mention ftilt out spaces Marth on the ground and bair does a number in the air.

It really is Dedede's favour.

I'm known throughout the land as the worst Marth against Dedede and I beat you
Marth's favour at least.

I was actually so surprised to find out that marth's fsmash is safe on dedede's shield that I fell over backwards and stopped losing the MU, lololol.

 

[| Big D |]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Ok first of all it was a friendly.

IDK why you would brag about a win where I get you to what 120% on your last stock, and then I come in fresh, and go for inhales, inhales only. A more serious match, I definitely wouldn't have done that, or maybe I would if I didn't care. For the rest of the match it was hella one sided, and at the end you refused to MM or even play another friendly with my Dedede.

Dedede roasts Marth on the Barbie.

 

[Shaya]

Accept your losses man, jeez. Just cause you lost you gotta make up all these JOHNSSSSSSSSSSS.
Also wasn't bragging. Was just talking about how bad I am against Dedede.

Either way, Dedede wins slightly or whatever. It's a frustrating match up though purely because its one that needs to be kind of 'fresh' in your mind to play it properly (similar to ICs really), and now that he's pretty rare when people bring out that pocket D3 you have to work for it .

 

[SinisterB]

johnss

.​

​

 

[| Big D |]

You guys suck >.>

 

[Chuee]

Lol no she doesn't.
DDD and ROB have also beaten top MKs in the past, it's still a terrible MU. Granted imo Lucario does better against MK than both of them, but it's still a fairly bad MU.
And Marth doesn't lose to DDD as badly as Lucario does.

Everytime Lucario vs MK happens at top level, it usually goes fairly even (Trela, Junebug vs M2K, Anti, Nairo). ROBs only wins on top MKs are like Ocean's win on M2K and tearbear.

 

[BSP]

Can anyone see Falco going back to A tier next list?

 

[C.J.]

Probably not, BSP.

Also, while I'll admit that Trela/June have gone even with M2K, Nairo, Ally, etc I don't think a Lucario has ever done overly well vs Anti. He's so good at that MU is ridiculous.

 

[| Big D |]

To be fair, you could say the same thing about Pikachu.

 

[C.J.]

Yes, but he didn't specifically mention Pikachu players doing well vs Anti.

Also, Pika loses that MU so w/e

Hi Ed!

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Damn, he saw through my lurking. Well done.

 

[Laem]

Despite current popular opinion I still believe marth goes at least even with d3. D3 is basically a sitting duck until Marth messes up, which may or may not happen often. And when it doesn't happen you may as well just WHEAYHUP-DHOOMHF outta there.

 

[DMG]

Yes, but he didn't specifically mention Pikachu players doing well vs Anti.

Also, Pika loses that MU so w/e

Hi Ed!

I mean, Lucario loses to MK too.

Anti does pretty good at a lot of MU's as MK. Diddy or Olimar being another example: no pulling wool over his eyes it feels like.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Can anyone see Falco going back to A tier next list?

As, like, the third or fourth best character, of course. People just need to wise up and face the facts.

Marth loses to Dedede.

He's like the only one who can shield grab fair, and he can reliably get Marth to the ledge to exploit his recovery.

Not to mention ftilt out spaces Marth on the ground and bair does a number in the air.

It really is Dedede's favour.

Pretty much. Dedede is one of the best choices to fight Marth, period.

 

[-LzR-]

I don't really see what DDD has on Marth except for being able shieldgrab bad Marths. When Dedede gets hit or offstage he can kiss his stock goodbye.