Official BBR Tier List v5

[Ripple]

so it wasn't until now that D3's found out that you can buffer a JC up-smash on some characters?

doesn't seem right to me

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I think it really depends on the stagelist because depending on the stagelist you can CP oli really really well. While Lucario's best stages are all good wario stages.

But Lucarios never agree on matchups so lol.

Some people get down and agree on some.

DDD, MK, and Snake are all agreed to be bad match-ups.

Marth, Wario, Olimar, etc. are more debatable, granted I think he does lose to Marth, Wario is...questionable since I need to see people attempting to play like DMG does against Lucario's, and Olimar I think it's even.

 

[Steam]

yeah it's really hard to get a gauge from non Lucarios too because everyone thinks they beat Lucario.

Fox, DK aren't 4-6 lmao

 

[Zephil]

Fox vs Lucario is even who said it was 4-6?

 

[Steam]

Fox vs Lucario is even who said it was 4-6?

Lotsa people on your boards :V

I personally think Luc-Fox is a bit closer to 55-45 Fox... but Luc-DK is even >_>

 

[demonictoonlink]

Fox Lucario definitely isn't significantly in Foxes favor if at all...Where do the Lucario boards get these numbers?

EVEN with DK? Wat?

 

[Steam]

Fox Lucario definitely isn't significantly in Foxes favor if at all...Where do the Lucario boards get these numbers?

EVEN with DK? Wat?

Luc boards say even to 55-45 fox :/

and ya, Luc DK is even. Luc does nasty things to DK when he has to recover or fall to the stage.

 

[Zephil]

oh yeah I just read the thread but I don't agree. We win the camp game but you get stronger wit heach laser that hits you. I think the reason why its so difficult to make a MU rate for Lucario is that people don't take seriously the boosts that Lucario gets when he is losing

 

[Steam]

oh yeah I just read the thread but I don't agree. We win the camp game but you get stronger wit heach laser that hits you. I think the reason why its so difficult to make a MU rate for Lucario is that people don't take seriously the boosts that Lucario gets when he is losing

Fox deals with aura much easier than most characters because the first mistake past 110 or so is an upsmash kill.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Zelda deals with aura much easier than most characters because the first mistake past 110 or so is an LK kill.

Love ya steam.

 

[Steam]

Zelda can't punish anything nearly as well as Fox can with Usmash.

Plus Lucario actually has to approach Fox. and fox actually has a degree of versitility

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Zelda can't punish anything nearly as well as Fox can with Usmash.

Plus Lucario actually has to approach Fox. and fox actually has a degree of versitility

You underestimating Zelda too much steam =/.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike deals with it easier than either of them.

He's still at a disadvantage though. :/

And Zelda can't approach well enough to really have a chance to deal with it early.

 

[Steam]

You underestimating Zelda too much steam =/.

IDK how Zelda's supposed to force any mistakes out of Lucario. It's kinda Lucario that does that to her in that MU >_>

edit: Fox actually better than ike. Fox basically gets a guranteed kill on the first mistake past 110. Ike doesn't however he can get kills at 50 off of big mistakes.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

IDK how Zelda's supposed to force any mistakes out of Lucario. It's kinda Lucario that does that to her in that MU >_>

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you think Lucario can throw out whatever move and be safe that's not even close to being the case.

 

[Steam]

he can't do anything he wants but has a lot safer options on Zelda than fox

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

he can't do anything he wants but has a lot safer options on Zelda than fox

you do realize that zelda's dtilt clashes with all of your normals on the ground and it beats out your jab....buttttttttttt whatever Zelda sucks.

 

[DTP]

Noooooo please don't start this again AL

.__.


EDIT: Actually, no, I need some entertainment. I'm bored right now.

Btw, Dtilt doesn't win matches!! And it doesn't automatically make her decent in a matchup.

 

[Steam]

actually it won't if luc spaces it right since aura hitboxes can't be clashed with. But that's not what I'm talking about lol

Zelda doesn't get a free kill off of whiffed Fsmash for example

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

yeah it's really hard to get a gauge from non Lucarios too because everyone thinks they beat Lucario.

Fox, DK aren't 4-6 lmao

Don't forget ZSS, Wolf, Pit, and Mario.

Fox vs Lucario is even who said it was 4-6?

Fox boards had almost every Fox saying 6-4 Fox's favor.

 

[Steam]

Don't forget ZSS, Wolf, Pit, and Mario.



Fox boards had almost every Fox saying 6-4 Fox's favor.

Pit? really?

and it's only pierce that says mario beats lucario. Mario boards say Luc favor :V

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty sure it's considered even with the rest of the Wolfs.

Don't be pointing fingers, Ryu. :3

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Pretty sure it's considered even with the rest of the Wolfs.

Don't be pointing fingers, Ryu. :3

I'm pointing at the ones who are saying he loses to Wolf, even if most say it is even which it is.

 

[Deleted member]

What's your opinion on Lucario vs. Pit?

 

[Nitrix]

Pit vs Lucario is close. Neither character has a strong advantage. It could be argued 55:45 either way imo.

 

[Steam]

What's your opinion on Lucario vs. Pit?

I'd say even to slight Luc advantage. Only in luc's favor because of pit's difficulty of getting kills

 

[Deleted member]

I'd say even to slight Luc advantage. Only in luc's favor because of pit's difficulty of getting kills

I'd say the same, but more because of Aura than anything.

 

[Nitrix]

Lucario's floatiness makes it easier for Pit to kill Lucario because it gives more openings to land a b-air. Killing isn't a huge problem in this matchup

 

[demonictoonlink]

yeah, it's that bad

it doesn't seem so terrible at first, i agree, and logistically it makes sense; ddd takes a ton of damage but doesn't die, ddd racks up a ton of damage and kills early

the issue comes, though, in that ddd just can't kill reliably. mk avoids all of his kill moves. the timeout system also hurts ddd in that if he's behind in % (which he almost always will be, considering mk's early damage racking ability), he ALWAYS has to approach, which only tacks on more damage for a character who has trouble approaching anyway.

worse yet, where can you even take MK? your best stage in the MU is FD, but they'll ban that. so you wanna go to smashville, right? good luck striking to a small, flat stage. mk solidly beats ddd on every stage, but those two are the only ones that at least give you a chance to get away and breathe when he starts messing up your shield.

it's definitely his worst matchup when played right. **** sucks.

Didn't see this before, but thanks

Although even if you would know much better than me, I would never believe it's his worst. I mean...Ice Climbers...Pikachu...DIDDY KONG. Even if the MK MU is super hard, at least he has tools in the MU. What's he gonna do with bananas? Combo into Ftilt?

But yeah, I've always felt the timeout thing really hurts DDD against MK.
Also, does MK have a guaranteed way to prevent Dthrow followups?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Noooooo please don't start this again AL

.__.


EDIT: Actually, no, I need some entertainment. I'm bored right now.

Btw, Dtilt doesn't win matches!! And it doesn't automatically make her decent in a matchup.

I know that doesn't however, that doesn't mean that X character shoot downs all of her options. When Zelda dtilt comes out frame 5 and clashes with all of lucario's ground moves and beats his jab it should tell you something.

actually it won't if luc spaces it right since aura hitboxes can't be clashed with. But that's not what I'm talking about lol

Zelda doesn't get a free kill off of whiffed Fsmash for example

That's what this game is all about both of us spacing properly I already know that Lucario's out ranges Zelda however, it's up to me to be able to get in the range of my moves and be able to punish your moves. Lucario really isn't limiting Zelda's options or ability to punish.

I've been told that Zelda can SH over the fsmash. I think she can FH fair or FH FF nair to some shenanigans. Ah PS of Lucario's Fsmash is by Zelda is a free kill depending on the spacing life etc etc but you get the point.

 

[Steam]

Lucario's floatiness makes it easier for Pit to kill Lucario because it gives more openings to land a b-air. Killing isn't a huge problem in this matchup

Pit's bair is also incredibly telegraphed. and he won't be sweetspotting bairs if Lucario plants himself on the ground and isn't stupid. Lucario might also be able to beat out Pit's bair with his own aerials. Either way a Lucario that's aware won't get killed by sweetspot bair.

@auspher- yeah Pit's bad killpower + Aura

 

[Deleted member]

I've been told that Zelda can SH over the fsmash.

I kinda doubt it.

@Steam: Aura yeah, but I don't know about killpower. I don't have much trouble killing Lucario with Pit. Bair does work wonders against a recovering Lucario.

 

[Steam]

pit would have to send luc off low though to get him in a position like that due to his slow fall speed and with proper DI I don't think pit has moves that can send him at that angle

@AL-SHing over Luc's Fsmash requires so much commitment that against a good Lucario you'll usually just get ***** for it. that's even if you can.

and if the aura hitbox connects with a hurtbox it lands regardless. if luc is spacing well nothing will clash. and if moves clash luc could just shield the Dtilt and punish >_>

and if luc is spacing well he'll be out of range of Dtilt anyways :/

 

[St4ticFir3]

Killing luc has never been the problem in this match up for me. If I can't land a B-air Fsmash can do the job fresh. I'd say goes even or close.

 

[Spelt]

tier list thread: too lazy to type out "lucario"

 

[Albert.]

poor spe

 

[Yamato Hong]

Should we all discuss characters' hitbox placements, too, and how they contribute to the tier list? ^-^

 

[Steam]

Killing luc has never been the problem in this match up for me. If I can't land a B-air Fsmash can do the job fresh. I'd say goes even or close.

yeah doesn't Fsmash come outon frame 6 like Luc's fastest ground move that hits in front of him (jab)? stuuuupid. Luc can outrange it with Fsmash though, no idea what else. though thank god light arrows can be clashed with otherwise this MU would suck.

 

[St4ticFir3]

yeah doesn't Fsmash come outon frame 6 like Luc's fastest ground move that hits in front of him (jab)? stuuuupid. Luc can outrange it with Fsmash though, no idea what else. though thank god light arrows can be clashed with otherwise this MU would suck.

Yeah, it comes out frame 6-8. I actually really enjoy playing against Lucario (luc).

 

[Steam]

yeah... and doesn't Luc's Dair basically destroy your ledgegame? :I

I don't have much Pit exp. lol. No one plays pit :/