Official BBR Tier List v5

[Coney]

lots of stuff

well when i say those things i don't mean to say that, like, his mobility or matchup spread or camping game are TERRIBLE or anything, they're just not good enough to be any higher, he just doesn't do anything exceptional

imo anyway, you'd obviously know more about him than me

also yeah @ mobility, poor ddd :<

yeah i'd chase you down below the ledge, don't know if it'd be a good idea but it's only because i'm ****ing crazy and chase everyone everywhere, even with ness

 

[stingers]

i think ROB is exceptional at keeping people out
but he's not exceptional enough I'll agree =p
I do think he's better than where he is though. Top of C tier. better than ZSS too imo but w/e nick riddle hype.

the problem with DDD chasing ROB down far below the ledge is that you can't really reach us unless we're vertically equal to the ledge when we start up b, and that shouldn't ever need to happen. if we MOVE vertically equal to the ledge and start to move upwards we have enough time to cover ourselves if you try to drop off and be covered until the time we reach the ledge. robs nair is **** and up b moves p. fast

 

[Steam]

Rob's should usually recover low when they can because of how vulnerable RoB is from underneath :V

 

[YagamiLight]

Knockback resistance would be the effect of friction happening. Friction has a stronger effect on heavier things. Here on earth, we measure how heavy things are by weight. Therefore I believe it is a fitting name.

wtf friction

wtf logic

Knockback resistance would be, strictly speaking, the effect of inertia. That is to say, an object at rest tends to remain at rest (and an object in motion remains in motion). Inertia depends on the initial mass of the object (and other factors).

Weight is mass (amount of matter in an object) multiplied by gravity (hence why we can weigh things, since gravity is constant everywhere on the surface of the Earth).

Brawl doesn't take place on Earth, however, and we can see that characters fall at speeds that vary tremendously (with characters of similar mass and body size falling at completely different speeds, such as Lucario and Link, for example).

Anyway the point is that you are really quite wrong and that weight should define a character's fall speed + knockback resistance (or, if you prefer, we'll say mass) instead of the one trait that you are describing, namely the resistance to hits.

So uh, wow.

 

[deepseadiva]

Yagami with those interesting posts.

He recovers much easier vs Mk's then Peach. He can scar through any terrain by just holding down.

Wolf for new hype character.

Which I think is deserved and justified - he's pretty good when not being molested by anything with a pinch of hitstun. But granted his recovery is fast, it seems so unversatile. Meanwhile, Peach can get back free if she still has float. Possibly comparable otherwise. But still.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Let's be honest, Meno. You get off the stage, you rarely come back without taking a **** ton of damage, and pretty frequently you get gimped. The just floating around for a bit thing worked for awhile, but then I realized I could just keep fairing. You beat that a lot of the time with your own fair, but if you miss or I wait for it, you get daired.

Peach has a reaaaally hard time getting back against MK.

 

[deepseadiva]

Freeeeeeeeeeee

 

[-LzR-]

Everyone here have played against Rob's who recover by holding upB? No wonder you think his recovery sucks.

 

[demonictoonlink]

V!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

V!

And Rob's recovery is AMAZING. He just has to go about it differently against certain characters. Bees always just goes to the other side of the stage, which seems really smart.

He still can be gimped by MK alright obv.

 

[deepseadiva]

But really, float means I get back.

Or maybe I'm just seeing the difference between recovering with float and recovering without one.

please no more dairs please

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

S: Meta Knight

A: Falco, Snake, Diddy Kong, Marth, Wario, Ice Climbers

B: Olimar, Pikachu, King Dedede, Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Mr. Game & Watch,

C: Toon Link, Kirby, Peach, Wolf, Donkey Kong, Sonic, R.O.B.,

D: Fox, Luigi, Pit, (Zelda/Sheik), Sheik, Ike, Yoshi, Ness,

E: Pokémon Trainer, Lucas, Mario, Bowser

F: Samus, Link, Captain Falcon, Zelda, Jigglypuff,

G: Ganondorf

Rearranged it a bit, all imo again of course.

 

[-LzR-]

It's MU Dependant. Against Marth and MK he is gonna have a hard time. Against stuff like Falco or Snake there is nothing to worry about.

 

[Steam]

Everyone has a hard time recovering against MetaKnight >_>

 

[demonictoonlink]

Falco...should never be above Diddy. Nor Snake, but people have been weird about him lately.

The second best characters in the game should NOT have counters. Diddy Kong does not have counters.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Falco...should never be above Diddy. Nor Snake, but people have been weird about him lately.

The second best characters in the game should NOT have counters. Diddy Kong does not have counters.

Can you safely say no one in the cast other than MK has an advantage against him?

 

[MKOwnage]

Can you safely say no one in the cast other than MK has an advantage against him?

Olimar is a possibility. I personally don't thinks so. Diddy seems to be a pain for Meta Knights everywhere.

EDIT: Never mind totally mis read the post.

 

[Albert.]

I think DTL is pointing out that Pika counters Falco and thus, Falco should not be considered for top 2, which I agree with

Why do people still think that Snake is top 3 though?


It should be MK, Diddy, Falco, Snake.

Doesn't relevant tournament data back this up?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Results do but I'm asking about Diddy's match-ups, those seem to be rather vague in general. People say he has no counters or possible bad match-ups outside of MK but I'm not sure how true this is when general info on his match-ups are either outdated or non existent.

 

[Spelt]

No. Falco shouldn't even be in top 5.

 

[Albert.]

No. Falco shouldn't even be in top 5.

Good post, I'm glad that you included eloquent thoughts and measured logic.

 

[DTP]

S: Meta Knight

A: Falco, Snake, Diddy Kong, Marth, Wario, Ice Climbers

B: Olimar, Pikachu, King Dedede, Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Mr. Game & Watch,

C: Toon Link, Kirby, Peach, Wolf, Donkey Kong, Sonic, R.O.B.,

D: Fox, Luigi, Pit, (Zelda/Sheik), Sheik, Ike, Yoshi, Ness,

E: Pokémon Trainer, Lucas, Mario, Bowser

F: Samus, Link, Captain Falcon, Zelda, Jigglypuff,

G: Ganondorf

Rearranged it a bit, all imo again of course.

Oh wow I really like this list.

Rearrange Falco, Diddy and Snake and then it's perfect! Imo.

Also maybe switch Pit and Luigi iunno, doesn't really matter much though.

 

[Dre89]

Jigglypuff apparently counters Diddy. I know some people think he goes even with characters like Mario and Tink.

 

[DTP]

Jigglypuff doesn't really counter Diddy lol
She is capable of handling him decently well compared to a lot of other characters, which says something considering her tier placement and overall garb status. But the match up is in no way in her favor imo.

Like I said, she does alright against him, but that doesn't make her a Diddy counter, does it?

Not sure what the exact match up is thought to be. 55:45 Diddy?

 

[deepseadiva]

Jigglypuff countering Diddy.

...really, if we honestly stop and think for a little it's obvious she actually hard counters him.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Can you safely say no one in the cast other than MK has an advantage against him?

No. In fact, I'm pretty sure Diddies would agree that Snake is harder. But I can comfortably say Diddy has 0 COUNTERS, unlike Flaco.

I think DTL is pointing out that Pika counters Falco and thus, Falco should not be considered for top 2, which I agree with

Why do people still think that Snake is top 3 though?

The first part for sure.
The second is because Snake is legitimately the second best (well imo third, but people don't agree with me about ICs)
You just can't beat that combination of camp game that can ****ing kill (c4 = top 3 kill move in game imo), recovery (yeah he gets ****ed up during it, but he can get back), kill power, speed to damage to knockback ratios....back air. ****ing back air is a RIDICULOUS kill move that comes from nowhere.
And yeah, you can exploit some things about Snake, and you can punish a lot of what he does when you play smart, but he just was built with what a character needs to be amazing.

Jigglypuff apparently counters Diddy. I know some people think he goes even with characters like Mario and Tink.

Jigglypuff DOES NOT counter Diddy. In fact nanerless diddy ***** Jiggz. Mario...I have no idea about...but I'm just gonna say that's probably not the case. And Toon Link does fight Diddy well, but it's more a matter of having tools that Diddy isn't used to dealing with. It's not bad for Tink, but it's prolly diddies favor.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah, Diddy destroys Puff kinda hard. In fact, Diddy counters Puff.

And I am tired of everyone putting Puff in the 2nd worst, she sucks, but let her stay where she belongs, the 4th crappiest char. She has no players, but Link, Ganon and Zelda haven't proved to be better either. THEY ALL SUCK.

Puff belongs to the crappiest low tier, just above bottomtier. I can't say any reasons beacuse it will be instantly invalidated by "Puff lacks representation"

 

[Yikarur]

Diddy:Jiggs Match up is too good. You just need to wait and.. fair
:D

 

[deepseadiva]

c4 = top 3 kill move in game imo

Really...?

Maybe control mechanism, but top three kill move? Do people get hit by it that often?

We are talking about the same move, right? Not the mine thing he buries. The one with the audible warning from the character himself?

 

[Yikarur]

I remember..
My shield got ftilted in a C4 that randomly exploed at that time.
it almost broke ;__;

 

[-LzR-]

Snake's only reliable killmove is his utilt. It's predictable as hell, but we still get hit by it. The others are just random stuff that kills you around 150%.

 

[phi1ny3]

I still like his dtilt, probably his second more powerful one hit killer outside of aerials, and I've gotten some shieldpoked kills by wearing on someone's shield and them expecting a utilt coming. It's a shame it's pretty unsafe on block unless you hit with the very tip of it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Listen carefully to what's being said, guys. The pros are here!

 

[-LzR-]

Listen carefully to what's being said, guys. The pros are here!

Lol that's related

 

[Browny]

Snake's only reliable killmove is his utilt. It's predictable as hell, but we still get hit by it. The others are just random stuff that kills you around 150%.

And if you dont use bowser...?

 

[-LzR-]

Tell me what RELIABLE killmoves Snake has outside of utilt?

 

[Laem]

any move that connects

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah, connecting is the problem. Only utilt reliably connects.
Yeah Ganon has killing potential with shieldbreaks too

 

[deepseadiva]

Yeah, connecting is the problem.

Snake. Snake has trouble landing moves.

:/

 

[Browny]

considering EVERY SINGLE ONE of snakes attacks and most specials kill below 150 fresh on most characters, that implies that snake has no reliable attacks... at all.

 

[Steam]

Doesn't diddy lose to wolf? :V

Also Snake can kill with like his entire moveset before 150