Official BBR Tier List v5

[Spelt]

and the game will never crash if you don't chain jacket when you have already hit the enemy aleast 3 times per life I believe

It's not per life. just 3 attacks that game

 

[Sinister Slush]

Now that I think about it, you're right (although he does stretch our during those two moves, too).

Yoshi is so spongy... whatever that means.

Sheik could probably rise, but I think she needs better results. She does seem to be a tad lower than what she should be at, though.

By Stretching I believe Sunny meant the Hitbox moves while Yoshi is charging his (LAZER!) F/U/DSmash

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11343563#post11343563

The Pikachu/Falco match-up just got even worse if that was possible, since Pikachu now has a guaranteed kill out of the chain grab. The MK match-up just got interesting too, although MK is significantly harder to grab.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Has ShadowLink never seen a ****** before?
That's clearly what it is.

Raw meat can look like one as well. =\
In anycase I was rather hoping it wasn't and just a case of internal sweating

 

[vVv Rapture]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11343563#post11343563

The Pikachu/Falco match-up just got even worse if that was possible, since Pikachu now has a guaranteed kill out of the chain grab. The MK match-up just got interesting too, although MK is significantly harder to grab.

That actually made my day. Good find (assuming you don't like, you know, scour the Pika boards hoping something like this would show up, but if you do, that's cool).

I dunno what exactly that will bring the matchup to, but I'm interested in seeing how this works in-game (doesn't seem to be a video yet) and if anyone can use it in a tournament.

As for MK, it's not that big of a deal. When MK dies, he's still MK when he comes back.

 

[Chuee]

As for MK, it's not that big of a deal. When MK dies, he's still MK when he comes back.

and when he comes back Pika can repeat the process if he gets another grab >:D

 

[etecoon]

MK should already be running from pika like he was the ice climbers at low % anyway, CG was already to near death and MK has the tools to avoid it, don't see how this changes anything

poor falco though lmao

 

[Chuee]

MK should already be running from pika like he was the ice climbers at low % anyway, CG was already to near death and MK has the tools to avoid it, don't see how this changes anything

Wat, the pika CG on MK was only to like 50% or something.

 

[etecoon]

I thought it was a little higher + combo'd into something, either way MK is a light weight so that's still good and my main point was that MK could and should be going out of his way to avoid it anyway

 

[DMG]

Oh man, blue waffle

SAVE YOURSELF KIDS

 

[SuSa]

The day someone makes an list of sheik moves that don't clank vs the cast attack is the day Sheiks will use chain jacking regularly or wont depending on the results.

The second people learn how priority works in this game... I might actually start taking more people seriously.

Do I have to necro my priority thread?

 

[ShadowLink84]

and when he comes back Pika can repeat the process if he gets another grab >:D

Doesn't SDI defeat it?

 

[Tristan_win]

The second people learn how priority works in this game... I might actually start taking more people seriously.

Do I have to necro my priority thread?

-.-

Even after reading your thread I still stand by my statement.

 

[Spelt]

Priority in this game is stupid. especially ground priority.

 

[SuSa]

-.-

Even after reading your thread I still stand by my statement.

WRONG PRIORITY THREAD

I realized my actual priority thread was a post to a smash researcher AGES ago. I'd have to go find it as it's somewhere on my wall.

EDIT:

TL;DR of priority:
There is no such thing except transcendant.
Everything else is classified as "normal" and only works because of hitboxes.

More disjoint = higher "priority"
Attack hits opponents hurtbox before their attack hits your hurtbox = Higher "priority"

I've had jabs clank with fsmashes, it just has to be timed stupidly well and you need a large enough of a disjoint to ensure your character doesn't get hit by the fsmash when trying to jab.

 

[Spelt]

also, when two grounded hitboxes collide if their damage outputs are between 10% they will clash, no matter what.

 

[SuSa]

No... just... no.

 

[Spelt]

8%. woops.

 

[SuSa]

No... still...no...

 

[Spelt]

...But, it's how it works. it was probably a bit too over simplified but ground to ground doesn't work solely based on hitbox/hurtbox ratio like air to air and air to ground do.

 

[Deleted member]

Falcon's jab clanks with marth ftilt?
I would hope not lol
(TBH idk though, i know yoshis ftilt clanks with snakes ftilt and utilt though).

 

[SuSa]

Falcon's jab clanks with marth ftilt?
I would hope not lol
(TBH idk though, i know yoshis ftilt clanks with snakes ftilt and utilt though).

Marth has a sword. Sword = Disjoint. Disjoint = won't clank.

Priority is just hitboxes colliding. Damage doesn't matter, only hitboxes and hurtboxes.

 

[Spelt]

Yes, falcon's jab clanks with marth's ftilt. I even went into training just now and tested it, which was a slight pain because of me not only having two hands.

 

[SuSa]

Falcon's Jab clanks with Snake's utilt. <_<

 

[Spelt]

Told you brawl priority is great.
Isn't it great?

 

[SuSa]

Except for a few ****ed up things, you can theorycraft what move will beat what just by knowing if it has transcendant priority (practically all of MK's attacks) or not.

Then you just calculate the range of said moves, and where a characters hurtboxes would be compared to it's hitboxes. Then you'll know if you'll be hit, clank, or hit them.

Which I find funny when people say theorycraft is useless in Brawl.. it's almost as reliable than data. XD

 

[Luxor]

Susa, tell 'em.

DAMAGE

DOES

NOT

MATTER

Every time someone says "x move does 10% so it can break through y move" I die a little inside. Why is everybody so ignorant?

 

[Deleted member]

Thats pretty neat, u can just falcon jab and beat everything against snake (since he aint gonna short hop at you) XD

 

[SuSa]

Susa, tell 'em.

DAMAGE

DOES

NOT

MATTER

Every time someone says "x move does 10% so it can break through y move" I die a little inside. Why is everybody so ignorant?

TELL THEM WITH ME YOU HAVE MORE RESPECT.

Every time someone says ANYTHING about "oh, Olimar just has bad priority" I die a little inside. It's just his Pikmin work as "they get hit, no more hitboxes. haha dye olimar!" which in a sense can be seen as bad priority.. but it's not. =\

Also Falcon's Jab clanks with Marth's ftilt? Hm...I'd assume it didn't *marks it as ONE OF THOSE WEIRD EXCEPTIONS I WAS TALKING ABOUT*

Give me a break, I haven't even played Brawl since AX and before that since I quit SWF... I can't know every **** detail still. =\

 

[Poltergust]

very time someone says ANYTHING about "oh, Olimar just has bad priority" I die a little inside. It's just his Pikmin work as "they get hit, no more hitboxes. haha dye olimar!" which in a sense can be seen as bad priority.. but it's not. =\

Now you're just getting into semantics. In the practical sense, Olimar's Pikmin moves do indeed have bad priority. It's fine if people say that they do.

 

[Spelt]

but ... ground/ground priority does base off of damage e_e
go try any two grounded attacks between 8% and they will clank.


and also i'd argue olimar has the best priority in the game.
at least with his smashes/uair.

 

[SuSa]

It doesn't, it just seems like it.... theres no coding for priority in the game except transcendant. (I'm like 99% sure on this... could a Smash Researcher or Brawl hacker comfirm this?)

It either clanks, or it doesn't clank. Theres your priority system.

PS:
Olimar's uair only ***** due to having multiple hitboxes.

EDIT:
This is the general response to what just happened.

Guys....Susa wins.....
Bow down to SuSa, the god of all things logical.

Do what SuSa says.

[/QUOTE]

I agree with SuSa. Too good.

No no, Susa is always right.

 

[Spelt]

Oh well, i'm always wrong so eh.

 

[Browny]

Marth has a sword. Sword = Disjoint. Disjoint = won't clank.

Priority is just hitboxes colliding. Damage doesn't matter, only hitboxes and hurtboxes.

lmao you have no idea what youre talking about and considering your above post, may I suggest sticking to brawl general discussion?

Spelt dont worry man, youre right on this one.

 

[SuSa]

lmao you have no idea what youre talking about and considering your above post, may I suggest sticking to brawl general discussion?

Spelt dont worry man, youre right on this one. 3 seconds in training mode proves this.

Wow... I'm not even going to bother giving this a proper response outside of this sentence.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Marth's moves clank I think. Which ones are we talking about? Aerials?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Just a small correction, damage does sometimes matter.

Any two attacks that deal 8% or less will automatically clank on the ground. In other words, if I jab and Fox jabs, the moves will clank regardless of hitbox size. SuSa, you are wrong here sorry.

However, outside of that 8% window, hitboxes are all that matter, I think. Am I wrong?

 

[demonictoonlink]

The thing is, we all know Inui logic is blatantly flawed, but he just goes with it, and I have to respect that.

 

[SuSa]

He didn't even bother reading about my exceptions. There are some, and it's far more complex than my TL;DR version.

The point is, it comes down to hitboxes and hurtboxes. If two hitboxes collide before a hitbox can hit a hurtbox, the moves clank. Only exception is transcendant priority which DOES NOT CLANK WITH ANYTHING.

But no, people are ignorant and ****ing stupid. A smash researcher even came in:

Susa, tell 'em.

DAMAGE

DOES

NOT

MATTER

Every time someone says "x move does 10% so it can break through y move" I die a little inside. Why is everybody so ignorant?

Browny, I suggest you learn how Brawl's coded and come back with solid evidence of me being wrong. I'm pretty **** sure there is only one variable for priority which controls transcendancy. Outside of that it's all hitbox and hurtbox collisions. I suggest you look into who the **** I am before you try to tell me where I belong as well.

Go back to spamming the Sonic Social thread. I'll go searching for the post, because I have a feeling theres a post somewhere, in the Smash Workshop about priority. As it'd be one of the variables to modifying attacks.

And cue generic Steak main post ending

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

SuSa, relax. There's so much wrong information about everything floating around that people can read stuff and believe it any time, even if the source comes from a reputable source. I've seen smart posters say some serious bull**** before, including you, so try to be civil. It's not that big of a deal.

Priority is a mess in this community. Everyone has 1000 ideas about how it works based on things they've read and experienced. Here's what I know, but I might be wrong:

1. On the ground, attacks that deal 8% or less damage clank if their hitboxes connect on the same frame.
2. If they connect on different frames, the hitbox that connects to a hurtbox first wins.
3. If two attack hitboxes collide and one attack deals more than 8% damage, the attack that connects to a hurtbox wins regardless of the damage dealt.
4. Special attacks and certain attacks programmed as articles will always clank (except projectiles, which are usually nullfied by any attack with a few exceptions like Bombs). Examples are ZSS' neutral air and forward smash.
5. Aerials never clank with ground moves and always win. In the air, there is no clanking; the first hitbox to connect to a hurtbox wins the exchange. If they connect at the same time, the attacks will trade hits (both players are hit).
6. Transcendent priority moves pass through other hitbubbles and connect to a hurtbox without even acknowledging the hitbubble, but are not exemptfrom hit trades.
7. Grabs usually win any exchange due to grab armor (assuming grab connects).