Official BBR Tier List v5

[NAKAT]

Pikachu's won't even really encounter Fox mains due to them being smart enough to pick up a secondary.

 

[Spelt]

For the record, disjointedness is measured off of hurtboxes, not models. and as you can see in this video, hurtboxes are ridiculously tiny compared to models, so yes, there's a good chance rest is disjointed.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Ike is finally mid tier
Meta is finally S tier









what a suprise.

 

[Ripple]

^^^^ OMG troll face woody.

anyways, DK sucks. lucas is where its at

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I have an important question--

When you -do- clank with the opponent, do certain characters/moves take longer to go to the neutral animation than others?

Also, can you buffer another move during the clank like normal?

 

[Spelt]

i think you're both sent to neutral state in the same amount of time after a clank. not sure about buffering though.

 

[SuSa]

I have an important question--

When you -do- clank with the opponent, do certain characters/moves take longer to go to the neutral animation than others?

Also, can you buffer another move during the clank like normal?

Pretty sure it's the same spped. I want to say 7 frames? I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be too hard to test. The reason I say this is because if you take two characters and repeatingly clank their moves together, one won't beat the other when timed properly. I could be wrong on the number of frames, iirc it's 7 or 12 from Snake's utilt stopping projectiles and cancelling itself ('clanking with projectiles')

Also I'm totally unsure about buffering..... I would assume so seeing as tradeoffs like what I mentiond above happen and the easiest and most likely way that is is both are buffering the inputs, rather than both being frame perfect.

/assumptions, so don't fully trust them

PS:
I can't find my GC controller, until I do I can't do my testing on priority.

 

[Sunnysunny]

By Stretching I believe Sunny meant the Hitbox moves while Yoshi is charging his (LAZER!) F/U/DSmash

Huh? Well that too, but yoshi is stretchy~! Squishy squishy squishy yosh yosh~! =w=

 

[vVv Rapture]

I really wish more people played Pikachu. It just seems to me that Oli and Pikachu have the tools to round out A tier, to be honest, maybe even pass ICs (****ing hate those kids on my lawn), but unfortunately Pika doesn't have as much rep as he should.

Those two are definitely wildcards or dark horses or whatever. I wouldn't be surprised to see those two rise a bit more next time, but I definitely like where they are now.

Anyways, go back to discussing priority or...Yoshi's squishyness?

 

[Poltergust]

I prefer to call Yoshi spongy. I dunno, it just seems appropriate to me. And Kirby is a cake.

You know, I can almost swear that if MK does a glide attack and you clank with it that he recovers faster...

 

[SuSa]

I prefer to call Yoshi spongy. I dunno, it just seems appropriate to me. And Kirby is a cake.

You know, I can almost swear that if MK does a glide attack and you clank with it that he recovers faster...

Glide attacks are speshul and if I had a solid memory of how it works out when it clashes with another attack I could answer that.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

MK's Glide Attack is stupid. It clanks out Ike's Fsmash. -_-

 

[SuSa]

I can't tell if that was troll bait, or if you were actually being serious after all this discussion about priority and moves clanking just happened.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'm serious. It clanks out Ike's Fsmash. That's why if MK is gliding towards Ike, we have to use Usmash instead of Fsmash if we want to punish: Usmash doesn't clank with anything.

 

[NickRiddle]

MK's Glide Attack clanks with anything that does > 1%. (It does not clank with the antenna during Olimar's jab, it just wins.)
ZSS's Nair is the same way.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Really? I thought Ikes Fsmash wasn't beaten by anything. Well nearly anything. ._.

I dunno spongy makes me think about sponge cake, and now cake makes me think about kirby.
Squishy is fitting me thinks. His N-air and jabs make squishy noises like a rubber duck~! C:

 

[volume]

this list da bess

 

[Poltergust]

I dunno spongy makes me think about sponge cake, and now cake makes me think about kirby.

That was exactly my line of thought.

By the way, just so everyone knows, attacks that have super-armor can still be clanked with.

 

[san.]

I'm serious. It clanks out Ike's Fsmash. That's why if MK is gliding towards Ike, we have to use Usmash instead of Fsmash if we want to punish: Usmash doesn't clank with anything.

Bair also works fine, considering the only two outcomes if both connect: MK gets hit or you both get hit, and there's a pretty decent leeway in time where it will hit. Usmash is kind of hard to time, and it's not likely MK will continue to glide once they see the startup animation.

 

[C.J.]

Pretty sure it's the same spped. I want to say 7 frames? I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be too hard to test. The reason I say this is because if you take two characters and repeatingly clank their moves together, one won't beat the other when timed properly. I could be wrong on the number of frames, iirc it's 7 or 12 from Snake's utilt stopping projectiles and cancelling itself ('clanking with projectiles')

Also I'm totally unsure about buffering..... I would assume so seeing as tradeoffs like what I mentiond above happen and the easiest and most likely way that is is both are buffering the inputs, rather than both being frame perfect.

/assumptions, so don't fully trust them

PS:
I can't find my GC controller, until I do I can't do my testing on priority.

I don't know for sure, but, I'm pretty sure, while the moves may clank, the users still experience their own move's hitlag. So, if Diddy's ftilt (assume 4 frames of hitlag random number, no idea) clanks with Ike's Jab1 (assume 2 frames of hitlag (again another random number, no idea) I think Ike would have a 2 frame advantage.

Again, no idea for sure but I remember Marth having frame advantage on MK if Marth's jab clanks with MK's glide attack.

 

[SuSa]

Like I said.... MK's glide attack is speshul... as are all 3 glides IIRC.

 

[OpFor]

is their a link to a japanese tier list

 

[Spelt]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287307


This is only the opinion of one person, though.
so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[DMG]

I've clank Marth's Fsmash with Wario Fsmash

 

[acjamn2]

Yay yoshi! +2

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm still trying to understand the weird logic with Pit, Pokemon Trainer, and Fox on this list.

The BBR understood people were upset over the fact Pit got a rise off of the potential talking of a few members, which had little to no proof or a little thoerycraft to back it up. He was risen over multiple characters who had proven there own placement yet were shafted. He was lowered respectfully.

Then we get to Pokemon Trainer and Fox, so Reflex is an outlier for PT they say Reflex is the only one getting results so Pokemon Trainer, then Fox has TKD and maybe Zeton has an outlier...and he gets a 5 spot boost...I can kinda understand this one more than Pit since Fox actually has more respectful results to help back him up, but not to the extent he received. I don't get how Pokemon Trainer get lowered saying he has an outlier, yet Fox gets a buffer when he has the same thing as PT.

So theory craft is the only way to make a good argument for them, which I could see Fox getting more hype...but the fact he has 3 Mu's where he has major problems is something that I don't think should let him drop this far. DK has one MU where he has an LOL time, Fox has 3 MU's while individually aren't as bad as the DK one, still put together is a pretty big deal when we are considering the character is going to be used in a singles bracket.

DDD has a infinite or a side step on DK, Pikachu has a 0-death on Fox.

I'm not seeing much of a legit reasoning over a 5+ raise the more I took time to think about it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Don't you know? Fox can fight Meta Knight to an extent, so everyone is jizzing their pants over him.

That, and I'm not good because ANYONE could win in my area, apparently. >:/

 

[stingers]

is that why ROB is still low? i quit

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'm still trying to understand the weird logic with Pit, Pokemon Trainer, and Fox on this list.

The BBR understood people were upset over the fact Pit got a rise off of the potential talking of a few members, which had little to no proof or a little thoerycraft to back it up. He was risen over multiple characters who had proven there own placement yet were shafted. He was lowered respectfully.

Then we get to Pokemon Trainer and Fox, so Reflex is an outlier for PT they say Reflex is the only one getting results so Pokemon Trainer, then Fox has TKD and maybe Zeton has an outlier...and he gets a 5 spot boost...I can kinda understand this one more than Pit since Fox actually has more respectful results to help back him up, but not to the extent he received. I don't get how Pokemon Trainer get lowered saying he has an outlier, yet Fox gets a buffer when he has the same thing as PT.

So theory craft is the only way to make a good argument for them, which I could see Fox getting more hype...but the fact he has 3 Mu's where he has major problems is something that I don't think should let him drop this far. DK has one MU where he has an LOL time, Fox has 3 MU's while individually aren't as bad as the DK one, still put together is a pretty big deal when we are considering the character is going to be used in a singles bracket.

DDD has a infinite or a side step on DK, Pikachu has a 0-death on Fox.

I'm not seeing much of a legit reasoning over a 5+ raise the more I took time to think about it.

I don't get it either. It's illogical. There is nothing to support Fox moving up that high. All known data suggests he should be right around Wolf. Maybe one character in between them, but that would the absolute max.

Like I said before: they combined their PT and Pit mistakes to misplace Fox. It's just...weird.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Don't you know? Fox can fight Meta Knight to an extent, so everyone is jizzing their pants over him.

That, and I'm not good because ANYONE could win in my area, apparently. >:/

If they want to base the tier list solely on how a character can fight MK, ok, more reason for me to support a ban.

You place pretty much on par with other top Fox mains and PT drops. Makes total sense am I right?

I don't get it either. It's illogical. There is nothing to support Fox moving up that high. All known data suggests he should be right around Wolf. Maybe one character in between them, but that would the absolute max.

Like I said before: they combined their PT and Pit mistakes to misplace Fox. It's just...weird.

I agree.

Fox gets +5 off of theorycraft, my only reason for it.

 

[san.]

Just because Reflex is really good, and has enough skill and knowledge to make wise move choices of PT's moveset doesn't change the fact that he's doing quite well. Don't need to undermine his/other people's success and coat it with the term 'outlier.' Obviously, Player skill of a character does not have to follow a linear path.

Not much to say about Fox. I thought Fox has a lot of players who place alright with him. I think it's just BBR following through with their theorycraft of what makes a character good, and Fox ends up higher due to their logic, or rather, inability to reason why they had Fox at his previous position.

And Reflex probably places better than almost every top Fox main.

 

[NAKAT]

Just because Reflex is really good, and has enough skill and knowledge to make wise move choices of PT's moveset doesn't change the fact that he's doing quite well. Don't need to undermine his/other people's success and coat it with the term 'outlier.' Obviously, Player skill of a character does not have to follow a linear path.

Not much to say about Fox. I thought Fox has a lot of players who place alright with him. I think it's just BBR following through with their theorycraft of what makes a character good, and Fox ends up higher due to their logic, or rather, inability to reason why they had Fox at his previous position.

And Reflex probably places better than almost every top Fox main.

My dude O.O

~NAKAT~

 

[Spelt]

o lol, more fox hate. time would be better spent chewing on a diamond.

If they want to base the tier list solely on how a character can fight MK

...Where have you been for the last 2 1/2 years? lolololol.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

...Where have you been for the last 2 1/2 years? lolololol.

Basing a tier list off of how a character handles a single character is pretty flawed when they ignore the how the character handles the rest of the cast.

 

[Spelt]

the rest of the cast isn't the metagame.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

the rest of the cast isn't the metagame.

It is when 2 of those characters are in S/A tier.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I like Fox as C tier both because I think he belongs there and because it detracts the trolls away from ZSS bumping up to B.

 

[Chameleon]

Falcon will reach the mid-tier someday,
when he's done texting while fighting.

 

[Tesh]

Any time top MKs don't know a matchup, people think a character is good.
Yoshi
Jigglypuff
Pikachu
Olimar
Bowser

and now Fox

Soon enough people will realize that MK whups fox just like everyone else.

 

[IsmaR]

Funny that you didn't mention Sonic.