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Official BBR Tier List v5
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
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PZ
Smash Lord
Umz explain ZSS plz...Honestly, I'd agree with you, but I believe Pikachu does 2nd best vs Mk. After him then the spacies and then probably Zss or Wario or Snake or something.
Squirtle solo might be even better then Diddy =O. Key word is might.
Conviction
Human Nature
Air game .
PZ
Smash Lord
Ik that but I dont quite understand how she would deal with an mk on the ground besides side bs and dsmash lol
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Dtilt
Jab mix-ups
side-b
MU is -2 or -1 depending on the stage, ZSS' saving grace is really that she doesn't autolose to MK on RC or Brinstar.
Her air game is also really scary to him I guess. She's terrible off-stage though vs MK, like, she can come back but she'll take like 20% damage minimum. :\
Jab mix-ups
side-b
MU is -2 or -1 depending on the stage, ZSS' saving grace is really that she doesn't autolose to MK on RC or Brinstar.
Her air game is also really scary to him I guess. She's terrible off-stage though vs MK, like, she can come back but she'll take like 20% damage minimum. :\
Steam
Smash Hero
still better than most lmao
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Really? I mean, Fox and Falco tend to just come back, lol. I agree that she doesn't get outright owned which is nice, but the flip side of that is that if you are predicted, you still use a tether recovery which means you can't ever let it become your last option or you just get edgehogged. It's pretty sucky. Couple that with the fact that MK can wait until you flipstool him while he's hanging on the ledge and then LH Nair you off-stage again... it's all pretty obnoxious.
Charged dsmash is also pretty good against MK I guess, his initial dash (period he can't shield) is just long enough that a charged dsmash out on frame 1 is pretty scary and might force him into the air. Mixing up between sideb, paralyzer shots (wavebounced and uncharged especially), jab mix-ups (ugh don't let him predict you), dtilt, and charged dsmash is preeeettty effective, but ultimately once he gets in, you're going to end up in a bad position from dtilt-ftilt 1 mix-ups alone.
I'm not really an expert on the MK match-up but I don't think it's nearly as good as most ZSS players do. It's pretty workable, but you definitely have to outplay MK to beat him. Her biggest boon is that her aerials just outright beat his, including his glide attack. Second would be that she doesn't get stageraped. After that, MK's air speed makes him pretty easy to manage when she has the lead, and due to her speed and disjointed aerials tornado is less annoying for her than other characters. But she doesn't have a grab, and jab doesn't complete, so almost everything on the ground is a guessing game. Fox and Falco definitely have better MK match-ups. I don't know about Wolf. Pikachu probably is a little better.
On the other hand I don't really think Snake is as bad as most ZSS players so
Steam
Smash Hero
I was just saying most characters take more than a consistant 20%
PZ
Smash Lord
O thanks for the answer.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 11,841
Not at all...
Just making sure you know he's talking about Solo Squirtle/Diddy vs MK?
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
How do you figure? (for Squirtle vs MK) I would think that his over all lack of range vs MK's disjointed range + grab release issues would keep that from being true.
I have no opinion, lol.
Just making sure Spelt doesn't misunderstand what he quoted Seagull on.
Conviction
Human Nature
Kinda late but it's not my fault, I can't really access it. (thanks though John).Since it wasn't specified, I modeled the data for the "Average Cumulative" grouping.
While Wolf may LOOK good on this particular graph, pay attention to the numbers in the Y-axis, then you'll change your tune... -___ -;
Falco
Reflex 992.1
Ally 667
Atomsk 398
DEHF 386.4
DarkLink 355
Blue Rogue 310.9
Larry 300
Judge 257
Shugo 245
RedHalberd 241.4
RedHalberd 237.4
Malcolm 228.25
Kel 189.9
Arty 185.6
Hunger 153.6
Ally 145
Jnig 138
Mongoose 102
Mongoose 102
Viper 99.6
kismet2 95
Alphicans 95
Zak 95
Frank Rizzle 88
Stroumbert 88
Krystedez 78
H1N1 76
Warioman! 75
Dphat 70.4
Berserker 69
Xaltis 66
UltimateRazer 63
Superwolf 60
M@v 57.5
Xzax 54
Swordgard 54
Seibrik 54
Vinnie 54
Ninjalink 51
Iliad 50
Dynomite 49.2
Ice 47.5
Bassem 47.25
Pelca 44.7
Timotee 44
Atomsk 43.5
DoomMachine 42
DJ Falco 37.5
Hylian 37.5
HungryBox 35.5
Moe 35
TypeX 32
L-Boss 30
K9 27
Fiji 25
Nerd 24
BSP 22.5
Megafox 22
Kadaj 21.5
Croi 20
Gi 20
Swordgard 19
Billy 18
Magik 18
SSGuy 18
Micaelis 18
GDX 15
Bloodcross 14.8
Sin242 13
Curlz 12.6
Fizzle 12
DJ Jack 12
KiraFlax 10
Ozz 10
Li-D 7.5
Culex 5
Those are the 4 most up tight mid tier characters.
Looking at it Fox and Peach are pretty close.
Pit.....LOL
Wolf is up there.
Fix'd
Poltergust
Smash Master
Reflex plays Falco?
Conviction
Human Nature
Idk when, I just started going back to tournies 2 months ago. So I haven't been around too long to see it. I've only seen PT and Wario.
John12346
Smash Master
Ignore the Falco breakdown, I ****ed that up really badly.
And as far as the graph, I just wanted to point out how underwhelming the Y axis was. Wolf is indeed better than the other characters on that particular graph, for sure.
And as far as the graph, I just wanted to point out how underwhelming the Y axis was. Wolf is indeed better than the other characters on that particular graph, for sure.
Conviction
Human Nature
Ohh ok, I was confused on what you meant by that.
Thebest1pj
Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
Larry AND DEHF in the falco graph.
zeldasmash
Smash Lord
Any ideas on when the tier list will be released?
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
3/19 and 4/23 are days Wolf spiked. Looooooool. Days I placed at tourneys. How is that a problem for data?
John12346
Smash Master
Also, keep in mind that chart is the cumulative version.
Plus, Kain is the reason you Wolf guys aren't placing in the dumps, as much as I don't want to admit it...
Plus, Kain is the reason you Wolf guys aren't placing in the dumps, as much as I don't want to admit it...
Nike.
Smash Hero
Holy cow you guys post here ALOT O_o
On the subject of Pit, I think Pit has very meh rep right now. There are some good ones and alot of meh ones, just like Peach was. Alot of mid tiers are in that situation as many players have moved on to make more use of their talent (luigi?) or no one has made a huge splash with them in a while. Pit is a pretty solid character though (he should drop for now based on results though) but he is waiting for a hero. Peach looked pretty trash too before Illmatic.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 11,841
DA BESS THURRYCRAFTER EVUR o
Conviction
Human Nature
pit. meh rep? I don't think so.C Tier
D Tier
z00ted
The Assault of Laughter ﷼
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2010
- Messages
- 10,800
such a great post, lol
Steam
Smash Hero
I like how ziek has 15 uses
I know, just making a point. When I say mid level or lower, I'm basically saying Pit has NO top level players and maybe a couple of decent players that actually 2nd him or something. Its not really comparable to Sonic having top level mains (Espy, __X__) in ADDITION to their mid level players. I'd definitely put Pit in the same boat at 2010 Peach. Luigi had players like BigLou (didn't he switch to like Diddy or something?) and Boss (did he quit?). I don't think Pit's poor performance is JUST him being a mediocre character. Even low tiers have some impressive stuff going on now and then.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
if you learn how to properly wade through the bullcrap, you can actually learn and teach a lot in this thread...
also, lol at that list and the ratio of post in this thread to overall post for those people.
spelt: 1 out of 5.5-6
Steam: 1 out of about 6.5
Chuee: 1 out of 10 or so.
Me: 1 out of about 21
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