Official BBR Tier List v5

[ShadowLink84]

Im implying that Im fairly knowledgable about pikachu and his MUs, but we also have a convenient MU chart where everyone can have information about pikachu. However supposedly people do no agree with some of pikachus and others MUs on that chart, and if yall wish we can reargue some of the MUs. But that would also be annoying. Mostly Im just looking for consensus on how to deal with MUs since people are both using the MU chart for reference and openly disagreeing with it.

Okay, do keep in mind I do not mean it in an insulting manner, but I questioned because if you were so very confident I was wondering why.

If I remember correctly, I think your MU chart was taken into account. not sure. Bah I need a coke.

 

[z00ted]

I wasn't referring to that.
I was referring to Mike losing to Raz.

Pretty surprising considering Raz has never beaten ESAM once in his entire life.

but whatever, we cool bro

 

[Conviction]

Why change something that hasn't messed up yet? Lol

Illy: I think he was talking about raz beating Mike, and Neo beating him.

 

[Scatz]

LOL are you serious?

You're seriously going to say that ESAM's loss against me was illegitimate because I lose to Nike?

For your information, Marth is my absolute WORST matchup. He completely counters my entire playstyle and Nike just so happens to have a insane amount of Peach experience.

ESAM got *****, so no johns. I've also ***** the **** out of K Prime multiple times (who has tons of Peach experience).

It's dat Inui logic man. I find it totally legit

Spoiler

Naw, but my intention was for a QFT. Keep doing work Illmatic.

 

[Chuee]

Pretty surprising considering Raz has never beaten ESAM once in his entire life.

but whatever, we cool bro

Aye
@Iblis: Not neo, Raz lost to Nike in pools at Whobo, while he beat Mike in pools at a Socal local.

 

[z00ted]

ohhh I'm a freakin' idiot loooool

I didn't read people talking about Marth

Raz doing work

 

[Steam]

Why change something that hasn't messed up yet? Lol

Illy: I think he was talking about raz beating Mike, and Neo beating him.

it has messed up. marth isn't placing like he used to.

 

[z00ted]

why is this thread so god damn active, lol?

 

[Spelt]

People are attracted to idiocy.

 

[Conviction]

Illimatic. Steam is jebusing everyone, that's why.

 

[Orion*]

ESAM got *****, so no johns. I've also ***** the **** out of K Prime multiple times (who has tons of Peach experience).

Didn't that random peach beat Esam in FL? ._.

also

LMAO at marth not having options. and then comparing him to GaW

trolloololololol

 

[z00ted]

Kyon isn't really random.

ESAM also went Donkey Kong (LOL) game one.

 

[Steam]

marth is linear compared to most of the roster and it's hurt him results wise. you can't deny that he's not as strong he he used to be results wise :/

don't know why that can't be the metagame changing.

 

[Conviction]

LMAO at marth not having options. and then comparing him to GaW

trolloololololol

Steam is jebusing

Orion get it right.

Spoiler

Jebus is a good player, but his arguing/logic is LOL

Also, I'm pretty sure besides Mike, Kadaj is doing work.

 

[Steam]

why is my logic bad? can you reply to my actual point rather than just arguing small details of the comparison? I know marth is linear to a much less degree than GW lmao

 

[Orion*]

marth is linear compared to most of the roster

That's the problem. He isn't linear at all :/
what characters are you even comparing him to like it just doesnt make sense...?

also... Falco is AMAZINGLY linear and still ***** >_>
i never see that argument on him LOL

 

[Raziek]

Steam, we did reply to it. Over and over. Then you made a ridiculous claim.

Now you're asking us to tell you again.

This is why people are now saying you're Jebus'ing.

 

[Chuee]

Kyon isn't really random.

ESAM also went Donkey Kong (LOL) game one.

I facepalmed when I saw DK.

 

[Conviction]

*I saw this circle coming back around*

Answer to your question Jebus: Read the past couple of pages. Also you try to bring up specifics so I'm defining your specifics and showing they are wrong.

 

[Spelt]

i don't think you know what linear is.

game and watch isn't even linear.
he used to be, i guess...
back in '08 when people would get ***** by bair because people didn't know how to sdi.
but now, all of his options are subpar at best, and you really have to mix it up hardcore to accomplish anything, really.

 

[Tagxy]

Okay, do keep in mind I do not mean it in an insulting manner, but I questioned because if you were so very confident I was wondering why.

If I remember correctly, I think your MU chart was taken into account. not sure. Bah I need a coke.

That was my bad, the first question I shouldve asked is if you were using the MU chart or going from your opinion. Naturally if I disagreed with your opinion I wouldve argued my point, but if theres a consensus to follow along with the MU chart Im fine with that equally as well.

The only problem I have is sometimes people try to have it both ways. Theyll mention that pikachu loses to lucario, olimar and marth badly, but 2 pages later will mention that pikachu shouldnt be +0 vs MK. It cant be both ways, if I accept without argument that pikachus bad MUs are correct than I shouldnt have to argue that pika's good MUs are correct as well. Same with Marth, etc.

 

[Delta-cod]

marth is linear compared to most of the roster and it's hurt him results wise. you can't deny that he's not as strong he he used to be results wise :/

don't know why that can't be the metagame changing.

LOL.

I'm sorry, I can't take it anymore. Marth. Linear. Loooooooooooooooololololol

 

[Conviction]

Delta did you just see him say that? I believe he said it 20 times LOL.

 

[Steam]

orion actually answered me. yay

I will give you falco, though I think he's more powerful due to his strong options being in many areas (strong camping game and strong up close)

Marth has no projectile (which is huge) and in any given situation doesn't have too many different things he can throw at you that do different things.

MK is MK, Snake is pretty linear but has the rediculous damage output and survivability to make is risk/reward better. Diddy can mix up stupidly well while being safe. ICs have dumb risk reward with respect to one option. but they're a wierd character >.>. Wario has his mobility and in this gives him a lot of punish options/options in general in conjuction with his relatively fast and fairly safe moveset on shield and his bite.

edit: though either way I'm not wanting to argue this. marth being linear is why I think his results aren't as good. I think marth should drop on the tier list because his results are bad.

 

[Tagxy]

Raz has been doing very well since whobo. If he keeps up with his success he'll easily be PRd on the next update.

 

[Raziek]

@Steam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbOqu079hyg

 

[Steam]

@Steam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbOqu079hyg

nice to see the BBR member continues to try to troll instead of responding. stay classy.

 

[Conviction]

Stay Jebusy, and not read back 5 pages where you started this mess. I feel like I'm hurting myself reading your post.

 

[Raziek]

^This.

10this.

 

[Steam]

Stay Jebusy, and not read back 5 pages where you started this mess. I feel like I'm hurting myself reading your post.

eh, don't see why marth can't drop 2 spots. I think he should drop below Olimar ICs, and pikachu, and should be above wario.

 

[Conviction]

Steam, this is usually the part where I would throw one at you and tell you read a book.

But since I can't throw a book because this is the internet.

*e-throws*
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269641
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269743

Read a thread and your homework on Marth.

EDIT: Maybe I should have just linked you to the Marth boards. I know you are too lazy to get there yourself. Brb getting link.

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=168

 

[Steam]

I've watched plenty of marth videos. he can't cover a bunch of defensive options with the ones that he has. for the most part he's bait/punishing/spacing with the same moves. and they aren't working as well as the used to.

edit:

The only problem I have is sometimes people try to have it both ways. Theyll mention that pikachu loses to lucario, olimar and marth badly, but 2 pages later will mention that pikachu shouldnt be +0 vs MK. It cant be both ways, if I accept without argument that pikachus bad MUs are correct than I shouldnt have to argue that pika's good MUs are correct as well. Same with Marth, etc.

also this. lol. part of why I don't think we can blindly trust matchups.

 

[John12346]

John Numbers' Really ******** and WIP Tier List

Top Tier
S:

High Tier
A:
B:
C:

Mid Tier
D:
E:
F:

Low Tier
G:
H:

Bottom Tier
I:

I'm basing all of this shizzle off the progression of characters, along with their ratios of success to usage, the number of successful players for each character, etc. etc. etc., all from the data I've been compiling in Ripple's thread, along with matchup spreads and overall character ability.

For the record, no numbers were brought into play when I made this list... I didn't make any calculations at all based off my data, I just consulted it when I felt like it was necessary for me to help better determine where a character should be placed.

To be updated, but this should give a somewhat accurate estimation for the time being...

 

[z00ted]

I don't understand why Peach is so low.

Kirby is too high.

 

[Spelt]

a:

: [

 

[John12346]

I'd put Diddy above Snake if Snake's success:usage ratio wasn't leagues above Diddy's.

And Peach may move back up... she's a really 'on the fence' character for me and is gonna take a lot more consideration in comparison to the rest of the cast.

 

[Steam]

I think i'd put pikachu above marth/wario... if you included all the MLGs that happend just before you started recording that data Pikachu would be muuuuuuch better than them with success/usage.

but that's about it. snake and diddy could go either way.

 

[z00ted]

I'm nowhere close to it, but I currently think Peach has more potential than Kirby's position on the tier list currently.

Fox is top of Mid Tier.
ROB and Pit are trash.
Donkey Kong, Sonic, and Wolf are underrated.

ZSS and Toon Link should switch.

 

[MJG]

TL is mid tier forever.

 

[z00ted]

Results say otherwise.

ZSS doesn't bring in anywhere close to the results that TL does.

Snake will always be better than Diddy, lol.

I don't think you people realize how truly broken both of those characters are. There's a reason why Razer is currently ranked #1 in Texas.