Official BBR Tier List v5

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He doesn't think Falco does awful on CP stages, based on what I read on stage forums and his opinions with Falco on them.

 

[Alphicans]

I know he doesn't, but GaW is just much much better on the stages he can CP falco to.

Maybe he's changed his mind since then, but I know for sure the falco's had GaW at +1 for them, then I came in gave my input on stages and DEHF said "yeah I guess that makes sense... Ok it's 0."

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He is, not denying that some stages can bolster characters, I'm saying for the general stage list we have doesn't cause super buffs or fluctuate MU's unless the character in question can't adapt as well to those stages, or MK is involved.

Yeah stages do matter in selection and will give buffs, but a single stage isn't going to cause a MU to turn over on itself unless the character has multiple stages 3-5 or something to select for an advantage, and usually if the character does have a problem like that, it's probably a bad MU.

 

[da K.I.D.]

but why stale his only good kill move?

let me get this straight, you, as a Game and Watch main, are trying to state that SNAKE has ONE kill move....?

and jab combo is punishable on hit.

uhhh... thats not right.

Even if the matchup was 50-50 on neutrals, DDD would still win the match-up because he has RC, delfino and possbily castle siege.

Zak if there is a stage snake can take DDD to that gives him a good advantage I'd like to hear it. I am not really 100% sure after all.

honest question. when did this become the norm to determine matchup ratios for the entirety of a set

 

[WindMajor]

Snake only has one move that doesn't kill.

UpB

 

[phi1ny3]

d00d I did the coolest lil' combo thing w/ upB once, I forgot the details but I somehow got the grenade to blow us both up, the cypher hit him again while I got out of hitstun, and I uaired the guy for the kill.

Felt like a million bucks

@Twinkie: dthrow :V

 

[WindMajor]

@Twinkie: dthrow :V

UTilt follow up.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

link is definitely better than jiggs samus and falcon lol. prolly not the rest. i'd say they're all in F tier though.

Sorry.
I gotta put my foot down on this one.

 

[Chuee]

Jiggz sucks though.
Nobody even mains her.

 

[Spelt]

jigglypuff is just wario without a bike.
B tier imo

 

[phi1ny3]

UTilt follow up.

You know, funny thing about cypher is that all of those gimmicky snake gimps like Bowser sideB, MK shuttle loop, Wario bite, actually work better if they get hit by the cypher afterwards. If it weren't for cypher, many MK upB gimps would be suicidal

/tangent

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Snake only has one move that doesn't kill.

UpB

I've seen it kill people.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Speaking for myself, i can say i use her more than alot of people on the puff boards, not speaking for DaPuffster of course, or Woodman. But i can say that alot of the MU's make it almost ridiculous to completely main her.

Link however may have the tools to fight off characters Jigglypuff can't. But jigglypuff can do better against the characters Link can work. With the exception of Snake, G&W, DK, squirtle and ..... I can't think of another one offhand, everything else is either advantage, even or slight disadvantage.

At least against link it's advantage. We have advantage on falcon, lucas, ganon, bowser, sheik, and go even with a decent number of characters.

 

[V]

At least puff can gimp wheras link can't, and neither of them have great kill moves, so gimping and recovery set her apart from link. She's still terrible tho. Curse you sakurai!!!

 

[Linkvader]

Lol, I wanna see a vid of a cypher killing someone. Or I could just go into training...

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

MK tried to follow up and gimp Snake snake dropped off, MK Shuttle looped into the Cypher and died off the top.

At least against link it's advantage. We have advantage on falcon, lucas, ganon, bowser, sheik, and go even with a decent number of characters.

I think it's even, granted me facing a good puff is rare as is, best I can get is a person in my region who seconds her.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS vs Jigglypuff is ****ing hilarious

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

ZSS vs Jigglypuff is ****ing hilarious

Video please to make sure you are not being sarcastic.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

and annoying lol.

and puff has alot of kill moves actually, granted with the excpetion of SSFair, Rollout, DA and Rest they won't kill until around 115% But the games more about getting damage and waiting for the opportunity than going for kills.

 

[Chuee]

At least against link it's advantage. We have advantage on falcon, lucas, ganon, bowser, sheik, and go even with a decent number of characters.

lol
no...........

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Against Sheik its still in the air, between that and slight dis.
Lucas, though, given the amount of really good lucas', i don't have much practice. I need to get with Galeon. You have range. But we can gimp you easily, and unless we're jumping into Usmashes and Dsmashes, we won't be getting killed easily.

Though i WOULD like to be proven wrong.

Bowser though, yeah. Slight ad/Even.\

He just wants to get hit all of the time.

 

[Chuee]

Against Sheik its still in the air, between that and slight dis.
Lucas, though, given the amount of really good lucas', i don't have much practice. I need to get with Galeon. You have range. But we can gimp you easily, and unless we're jumping into Usmashes and Dsmashes, we won't be getting killed easily.

Though i WOULD like to be proven wrong.

Bowser though, yeah. Slight ad/Even.\

He just wants to get hit all of the time.

Don't know anything about Sheik.
Against Lucas, if the Lucas can zap jump Jiggz should never be gimping Lucas. If they can't, then jiggz might get some free damage, but not a gimp often. Hell, not even MK can easily gimp Lucas, so I don't see jiggz being able to. Yeah, if you play smart its hard to land a smash on, but even so, Jiggz has trouble killing too, and Lucas can kill jiggz at least 30-40% earlier than she kills him.
Bowser? I find it hard to see Jiggz winning when she at at like 70% from a grab.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Bowser is like.
The biggest target in the game. He's like begging to be Daired and followed up. I'm pretty sure our duck goes under his grab. Though i'm not 100%.
His roll is really punishable. When he's off the edge he's dead. Just cause he has kill power doesn't mean he's good.

inb4ganon

 

[Flayl]

At least against link it's advantage. We have advantage on falcon, lucas, ganon, bowser, sheik, and go even with a decent number of characters.

How many Bowsers have you faced? Because I can guaranteee you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[stingers]

yeah I cant see how jiggs beats bowser at all >.> grab at like 60 and ur dead lol

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Even this Fortress OoS and Klaw I heard from Vex and others was hard for her to get around when used right.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I've never had a problem with bowsers.
I guess i need to play a legit bowser main. Zigsa/Flayl, when's the next time you guys are comin' to FL :D

 

[Flayl]

I'm never going to Florida nor am I a "legit" Bowser main. Try playing Vex or any of the the Bowsers mentioned in miles's top 5 thread. I'm not sure Zigsta or Phiddle have Jigglypuff experience, but the others do.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Mr. Eh is legit from what I've heard but he out of the way in a sense.

 

[Asa]

mr.eh = sandbag

 

[Poltergust]

Of course Jigglypuff has the advantage against Bowser. Just look at my sig.

But seriously, it's a really bad match-up for Jiggs. I mean, she already dies early enough, but dying at 65% percent from a grab is just too big of a factor to be ignored. Not to mention it takes forever for her to kill Bowser and most of her moves are punishable on shield with up-B.

 

[Alphicans]

let me get this straight, you, as a Game and Watch main, are trying to state that SNAKE has ONE kill move....?


uhhh... thats not right.

honest question. when did this become the norm to determine matchup ratios for the entirety of a set

Why does it matter that I main game and watch? And yes... Snake has one GOOD kill move. None of his aerials are reliable at all, and ftilt is going to be stale, so it will like never kill :/.

At lower-mid percentages jab combo is unsafe. Haven't you ever just randomly ps'd jab combo mid way through?

Match-ups are derived from top level play yes? Top level play happens during tournament yes? It only makes sense to consider a set then.

 

[Flayl]

most of her moves are punishable on shield with up-B.

That's not true. They're punishable, yes, but if Jiggs is spacing fortress shouldn't be hitting her that often.

 

[Poltergust]

I don't see what's untrue about that statement, though. Jigglypuff only has a few moves that work well, and they don't nearly constitute "most of her moves." >.>

 

[Flayl]

FAir, BAir, DAir, OverB all punishable but not by fortress if spaced correctly.

And I'm not going to bother discussing this any further, take it up in the Bowser/Jiggs matchup discussion threads if you want to know more.

 

[Poltergust]

4 moves =/= over 50% of her moveset.

>_>
<_<

 

[Alphicans]

3 of her aerials and one of her better moves, pound, is pretty much her total effective moveset lol.

 

[V]

Anybody think puff is worse than ganon?. At least he has a tech chase setup and has knockback. He can actually punish some things with powershielding.

 

[Steam]

Why does it matter that I main game and watch? And yes... Snake has one GOOD kill move. None of his aerials are reliable at all, and ftilt is going to be stale, so it will like never kill :/.

At lower-mid percentages jab combo is unsafe. Haven't you ever just randomly ps'd jab combo mid way through?

Match-ups are derived from top level play yes? Top level play happens during tournament yes? It only makes sense to consider a set then.

Dtilt would be a good kill move if Utilt didn't exist.

 

[Flayl]

4 moves =/= over 50% of her moveset.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZxzJGgox_E