Official BBR Tier List v5

[NAKAT]

I cringe when I see MK's get hit by rising fair instead of dairing or nairing or doing anything to it. Just saying

Fair hits the side of MK not the bottom so it's hard to hit us with dair. If we know that they will nair we can short hop bait it and use our second jump to fair it.

What does Fox do to a planking MK? I'd would think it's the same story as with Falco.

Honest question.

Nothing at all we just sit and wait for that dude to get back on the stage if he ever decides to return . This is why keeping the lead is important and lasers come in handy.

I can see Fox vs MK being 45-55

I do not see 50-50. I don't think Fox has the weight to survive long enough against MK for it to be 50-50.

Fox lives or at least I live till around 160-180.

i think the mu is 55:45 in mk's favor, close to even but not quite. fox has to work ALOT to win while mk doesnt have to and has the advantage everywhere but the ground(where the game is even for them imo of course). also counterpicks change matchups as well. if ever match was played on smashville then it might be even but with stages like rainbow brinstar delfino frigate allowed, fox losers in some stages while mk doesnt lose but maybe fd and thats it. yes fox has the tools to beat mk but so do a lot of characters like lucario, zss, wario, ec. we cant all and go and say those matchups are even as much as we would like to. its your opinion so i wont attack it but im just stating this.

atomsk tells me you guys will practice soon. he will show you what im talking about.

Yea he'll be helping me out a bit, I also respect you opinion as well and take in some of the things you say.

I cringe when you post about Wolf cause your so ignorant about the character it's amazing

That is how I feel about Nintendofreak guy whatever.

 

[ShadowLink84]

If MK is out of rising Fair's range why do it in the first place?

EDIT: Kain then you are on the same **** I'm on.

*points to videos*
The point is that Fox users just bust out the Fair, and MK users, for one reason or another STILL get hit by it.

 

[Conviction]

is the face make when I read that kind of stupid posts.

 

[Spelt]

Cool story bro who says I need to side B to the stage? Wolf has enough air mobility to double jump back onto the stage. Stay on the ledge and look dumb more You committing to one action just leaves an opening somewhere else

Yes because you are NEVER going to try to side-b back on stage.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Kain lookin real peeved right about now.

speaking of kain, how bout that ddd matchup

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Cool story bro who says I need to side B to the stage? Wolf has enough air mobility to double jump back onto the stage. Stay on the ledge and look dumb more You committing to one action just leaves an opening somewhere else

What? So wait, for a recap, here's what just happened.

1. SFP says side-b is bad because you can easily hit someone out of it.
2. Kain says "no u"
3. SFP says "here's why it's bad."
4 Kain says "well then I just won't use side-b and you'll look stupid!"

So basically you admit I'm right but then try to go on and make me look dumb by mocking me for a situation that has never happened.

Right.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

That is how I feel about Nintendofreak guy whatever.

And you sound like a blind Fox fanboy to me, so I guess we're even. Can ya at least spell the name right? Second 'n' is a 'd'. Or call me Niddo like most people.

160% against MK ain't good. Not terrible, but not good either.

 

[da K.I.D.]

160 against any body not peach sonic samus sheik is very good. idk what youre talking about.

also

difference between niddo and nakat

niddo, ike fan boy whos only relavence to smash is correcting misinformation on ike, and now that people have accepted that ike is mid tier, has no place in the world

nakat, actual high level player that beats skilled player and whos results in real life events back the statements that hes making.

so yea, their basically twins...

 

[NAKAT]

And you sound like a blind Fox fanboy to me, so I guess we're even. Can ya at least spell the name right? Second 'n' is a 'd'. Or call me Niddo like most people.

160% against MK ain't good. Not terrible, but not good either.

Homie must have not seen the "160-180" I posted. I can see because I am clearly responding to you <3! Make a nickname for me beacuse you are Nintendo freak guy. The anti Fox guy of the thread. I love my character and the games he came from, but like I'm defending him because when you post ignorant statements about him you are only putting garbage into other peoples minds sorry that I care

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdZMgSnjN58 (1:56) and that's only an old video

 

[_Kain_]

Yes because you are NEVER going to try to side-b back on stage.

Oh god...no one said never. He basically said all he has to do is hold the ledge and wwait for me to side b and uair it. Cool? If he does that I'll just recover another way. Don't post anything irrelevant to the arguement

Kain lookin real peeved right about now.

speaking of kain, how bout that ddd matchup

Falco

What? So wait, for a recap, here's what just happened.

1. SFP says side-b is bad because you can easily hit someone out of it.
2. Kain says "no u"
3. SFP says "here's why it's bad."
4 Kain says "well then I just won't use side-b and you'll look stupid!"

So basically you admit I'm right but then try to go on and make me look dumb by mocking me for a situation that has never happened.

Right.

Your trying to say his recovery is bad cause of one thing you can do to it. All I did was say he can get around it and you post a bunch of stuff. Cool

 

[Yikarur]

getting hit out of Wolfs SideB doesn't mean anything bad as long as you don't die because of it.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

It's not good at all. For crying out loud, Ike lives long than that against MK, and he's basically flat out dead the moment he's off stage. Fox only lives to 160% while still being able to recover?

When does Shuttle Loop KO Fox when he's near a stage edge on say, BF, fanboy? Sorry it hurts your feelings to hear the truth about your character and you need to cry into a pillow.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I really just said his side-b is bad.

That's like me saying you said Fox's air game is bad because MK can down-air it when Fox spaces it badly

 

[da K.I.D.]

Falco

OHHHH SHHEEEE.

Best wolf uses a secondary on bad matchups?

By the rules of the swf tier list thread, your character is now automatically low tier.

 

[Conviction]

And you sound like a blind Fox fanboy to me, so I guess we're even. Can ya at least spell the name right? Second 'n' is a 'd'. Or call me Niddo like most people.

160% against MK ain't good. Not terrible, but not good either.

Word up I feel you homes. I mean, when some one argues with actual facts and **** and I mean I go right and no and pull up some ****. Forreal maybe 5 months ago I would be agreeing with yall but we got a punishment chart and the MU thread to cover our ****. We can get the nitty gritty you feel me? Let's talk details.

A special shout out to all the "blind Fox fanboys". We are going in.

 

[_Kain_]

I really just said his side-b is bad.

That's like me saying you said Fox's air game is bad because MK can down-air it when Fox spaces it badly

I did?I never said Fox's air game is bad against MK. Maybe I should of been more clear. I cringe when Fox is recovering and they shine stall and the MK just looks stupid and let's the Fox rising fair back. Happy

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Word up I feel you homes. I mean, when some one argues with actual facts and **** and I mean I go right and no and pull up some ****. Forreal maybe 5 months ago I would be agreeing with yall but we got a punishment chart and the MU thread to cover our ****. We can get the nitty gritty you feel me? Let's talk details.

A special shout out to all the "blind Fox fanboys". We are going in.

Less random colour text, 12 year old boy style of wannabe gangster talk, more answers to my question plz.

 

[da K.I.D.]

LOL at iblis conducting the hype train yet contributing nothing to it but an internet presence. how you gonna say 'we goin in' like your part of the cause. rofl.

also, when did you get hip to this whole 'i use ebonics' thing?

 

[NAKAT]

It's not good at all. For crying out loud, Ike lives long than that against MK, and he's basically flat out dead the moment he's off stage. Fox only lives to 160% while still being able to recover?

When does Shuttle Loop KO Fox when he's near a stage edge on say, BF, fanboy? Sorry it hurts your feelings to hear the truth about your character and you need to cry into a pillow.

Obviously that video of me from August showed me living past 180%. I'll go get my pillow now because me being a fanboy is really crushing me right now.

Kid stop trying to troll Iblis it's a bit obvious lol.

 

[_Kain_]

OHHHH SHHEEEE.

Best wolf uses a secondary on bad matchups?

By the rules of the swf tier list thread, your character is now automatically low tier.

Nah I'll see. Thing is I'm not really trying to prove anything for Wolf anymore. I learned things for DDD next time. I just want to win more and might just take the easy way out. I did alot of things wrong in that MU that weekend all I'm going to say

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I did?I never said Fox's air game is bad against MK. Maybe I should of been more clear. I cringe when Fox is recovering and they shine stall and the MK just looks stupid and let's the Fox rising fair back. Happy

Right, and I never said Wolf's recovery was bad.

 

[da K.I.D.]

this is the first time since I got here that I refreshed the page and there wasnt a new post.

 

[_Kain_]

Right, and I never said Wolf's recovery was bad.

No I'm just saying when Wolf comes up you usually say he's bad but never really give any valid reasons why, it's just your opinion. And sometimes you say things that aren't even right. For one his mobility is good. He has like the 7th best walk in the game and 4th best aerial mobility. Running is overrated, unless your like Fox or Sonic

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Two Fox posts later, and I still can't get an answer to a simple question. I get fluff instead. I can probably pull up a video of most characters living to insane %s against MK, doesn't prove much. It's not typical.

 

[_Kain_]

Back on topic. Fox does do good against MK, but no way in hell is it even. No one goes even with MK. The fact that the Fox player has to outplay and do so much more work then the MK does means it isn't 50-50. basically what Ksizzle said

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOp6BTT9gKw

i thought 150% vs dk was pretty good...

 

[NAKAT]

160 against any body not peach sonic samus sheik is very good. idk what youre talking about.

also

difference between niddo and nakat

niddo, ike fan boy whos only relavence to smash is correcting misinformation on ike, and now that people have accepted that ike is mid tier, has no place in the world

nakat, actual high level player that beats skilled player and whos results in real life events back the statements that hes making.

so yea, their basically twins...

Didn't see this LMAO.

Two Fox posts later, and I still can't get an answer to a simple question. I get fluff instead. I can probably pull up a video of most characters living to insane %s against MK, doesn't prove much. It's not typical.

You hardly asked a question to begin with lmao. Lol you haven't seen a lot of my matches I am hard to kill sometimes. I wonder how you do in your region lol.

 

[Conviction]

Here I'll be civil for you. Also thanks you defiantly know where I come from .

Sir here is the info you requested. Please try and break it down.

Mach Tornado.
You should shine before landing to wait out Mach Tornadoes. There's stuff you can do like air-dodge into the move's last hit to punish its cool-down or nair/dair into the center of it (nair's easier but both are unreliable as the opponent spaces himself), but safety is usually better.

After blocking this move, you should downsmash if the opponent's not at usmash KO percentage if Meta Knight ends the move right above Fox (priority is given to downsmash to keep usmash slightly fresher since usmash is connected more often). If he's at usmash KO percentage, simply perform it. It's also possible that they land with enough cool-down or a short enough distance from Fox for a dash usmash to reach. If there's no chance of punishment, you can mix-up on the opponent (dair, block, grab in order of usefulness).

Usmash counters Mach Tornado from below too, so you can hit it as it's coming if too predictable, dash and usmash it from below, or maybe even block and immediately usmash it: tip was spread that a decayed Mach Tornado's hitbox is inactive for 11 frames after touching you or your shield, which may be the reason you can smash DI it so often so you don't get caught in it.

Fox can interrupt certain actions with the following moves:
- Walk grab.
- Dash usmash.
- Dash attack.

- Dsmash (blocked or whiffed): Dash usmash or unblock, dash usmash. Punish dsmash every time you block it. Be aware that the second hit only has a 4 frame window for usmash to hit it, so it may be hard if it's tippered. Always possible when powerblocked.
- Shuttle loop (back facing Meta Knight): Full hop bair.
- Shuttle loop (facing Meta Knight): Full hop fair/nair.
If there's no time, walk under Meta Knight to usmash him. Dash under him uair works too. If there's really no time at all, block the glide attack. If it's miss-spaced horizontally (too close), shield-grab. If it's miss-spaced vertically (too high), usmash from block.
Fox can Sh over the first two hits of Ftilt and SH over Dtilt and Fsmash. (Nakat is Dsmash one too?)

Here read this too kind sir

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244972

And you really never asked a question, and my bolds and coloring was to catch your short attention span. (Opps that's going off topic like you tried to do to me)

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't like SFP and sometimes he says things that aren't correct, so what I'll do is take something he says out of context based on things he's said in the past and attempt to make him look stupid on an internet forum.

This is the story of my life. How about just correcting me and moving on with your life?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I repeat: at what percent does a fresh shuttle loop kill Fox near the stage edge of BF? Doesn't have to be right, right "I'm doing my losing balance animation" edge, but fairly close to it.

Seriously, both of you missed that question? It was in my post, but I think you both were too mad to see it. That post STILL doesn't give me the answer, just a typical "do this when this happens" wall. -_-

 

[Conviction]

In the air or on the ground?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I repeat: at what percent does a fresh shuttle loop kill Fox near the stage edge of BF? Doesn't have to be right, right "I'm doing my losing balance animation" edge, but fairly close to it.

Seriously, both of you missed that question? It was in my post, but I think you both were too mad to see it. That post STILL doesn't give me the answer, just a typical "do this when this happens" wall. -_-

What percent does Falcon Punch kill Fox?

Random question that shows nothing is random.

 

[NAKAT]

I repeat: at what percent does a fresh shuttle loop kill Fox near the stage edge of BF? Doesn't have to be right, right "I'm doing my losing balance animation" edge, but fairly close to it.

Seriously, both of you missed that question? It was in my post, but I think you both were too mad to see it. That post STILL doesn't give me the answer, just a typical "do this when this happens" wall. -_-

Grounded would be around 130-140.

Air would be possibly 140-150.

Either way our fast falling speed and good airdodge makes it hard for MK to catch Fox with a shuttle loop. Not only that but we can punish them right afterward to in some cases it would be even risky to go for. Happy Nintendo Freak guy? So I am guessing Fox is bad because he dies earlier from a shuttle loop from than other characters aww poopsy

I'm not mad at all I'm sitting at home playing my xbox having fun :D I'm just amused about how you think Fox isn't a good character and you must know everything about Fox since you do play him xD

 

[_Kain_]

I don't like SFP and sometimes he says things that aren't correct, so what I'll do is take something he says out of context based on things he's said in the past and attempt to make him look stupid on an internet forum.

This is the story of my life. How about just correcting me and moving on with your life?

You need to chill cause I never attacked you. All I did was question your knowledge on a certain character. I think the only close negative thing I said was look dumb on the ledge more. Which wasn't even bad. It's just a healthy arguement

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Grounded would be around 130-140.

Air would be possibly 140-150.

Either way our fast falling speed and good airdodge makes it hard for MK to catch Fox with a shuttle loop. Not only that but we can punish them right afterward to in some cases it would be even risky to go for. Happy Nintendo Freak guy? So I am guessing Fox is bad because he dies earlier from a shuttle loop from than other characters aww poopsy

THANK YOU. Now I need the Dsmash KO% range as well, seeing as I'm not finding the KO comparison between shuttle loop and dsmash as easily as I thought I would on the MK boards. Same spot on stage.

 

[Conviction]

Aiyyo Mr.-0 you got silent there son

 

[NAKAT]

THANK YOU. Now I need the Dsmash KO% range as well, seeing as I'm not finding the KO comparison between shuttle loop and dsmash as easily as I thought I would on the MK boards. Same spot on stage.

So like iblis provided you with a link to all of your questions and answers to that MU. seeing as you can read I think you should click on the grey text :D

 

[Deleted member]

You need to chill cause I never attacked you. All I did was question your knowledge on a certain character. I think the only close negative thing I said was look dumb on the ledge more. Which wasn't even bad. It's just a healthy arguement

You're right on questioning his knowledge on Wolf, seeing that he has posted in this very thread that he doesn't know much about the character.

Yet he's in here throwing out how bad Wolf is.

Real smooth.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

So like iblis provided you with a link to all of your questions and answers to that MU. seeing as you can read I think you should click on the grey text :D

Apparently he can't though, seeing as he didn't quote the part that would have been helpful to me.

So Fox dies to MK's most common KOing moves at roughly 120% or 140% (obviously stage and position dependent, dsmash and shuttle loop respectively). Nair was also around 140%.

Yaaa, he's not living to "160%-180%" on average. It can happen obviously, but that ain't average. Ain't that hard to land Dsmash/Nair/Shuttle Loop. I'm expecting probably 130-140%.

Stop overhyping your character fanboy.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I've been surviving to around 200% with Wario against Meta Knight. Feels good, man.