Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Pitzer]

You mean RARing?

 

[Steam]

Well I guess I mean just simply dash-cancel-reverse into a bair. It looks like a wavebounce in nature. Not sure like I said lol.

you'd have to drop shield and turn around beforehand.

 

[da K.I.D.]

steam, your wrong.

stop trying to make things over complecated to try and cover yourself

pits bair is very good and very easy to punish grounded shuttle loop with, there is plenty of time for pit to let go of shield, turn around and full jump bair, before mk can do anything. it guaranteed, and its way better than any guaranteed punishes lucario has in the same situation, aside from >100% aura spheres.

 

[Krystedez]

You mean RARing?

Forgive, I'm pretty dumb in my smash lingo terms, I mix them up. What does RAR mean again? Reverse something retreat or... ugh I'm so stupid.

 

[Steam]

steam, your wrong.

stop trying to make things over complecated to try and cover yourself

pits bair is very good and very easy to punish grounded shuttle loop with, there is plenty of time for pit to let go of shield, turn around and full jump bair, before mk can do anything. it guaranteed, and its way better than any guaranteed punishes lucario has in the same situation, aside from >100% aura spheres.

Lucario has no guranteed punishers of grounded SL on shield.

and not even the one in the vid that chuee posted was guranteed unless pit could have done it faster.

 

[Juushichi]

Reverse aerial rush, Krys.

 

[Spelt]

complecated

 

[Krystedez]

Ty, juu. derp.

I'm gunna get on wifi, need to get some practice in.

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKLd2BcLQQ#t=08m06s that was definitely a guaranteed punish. and in that situation, the only thing that the mk could have done was g air to clank, at which point he would have gotten the laggy landing and the pit would have punished with a kill move anyway.
lucario has guaranteed punishes off a grounded Sl in fair at the very least.

 

[Steam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKLd2BcLQQ#t=08m06s that was definitely a guaranteed punish. and in that situation, the only thing that the mk could have done was g air to clank, at which point he would have gotten the laggy landing and the pit would have punished with a kill move anyway.
lucario has guaranteed punishes off a grounded Sl in fair at the very least.

he'll get Glide attacked if he tries that. Uair is usually the best one... but you have to guess right.

also LMAO that was not guranteed. Go into training mode and see how early you can cancel it. you can SEE that the MK angled his glide up before getting hit.

 

[da K.I.D.]

im sorry but you missed the part where i said he was going to get hit with a kill move anyway, so ill say it again.

he would have clanked, and got a laggy landing which the pit would have punished with a kill move no matter what

ps. if your quick enough with the fair, itll clank with the g air and than you get to down air him for free with lucario.

 

[Steam]

im sorry but you missed the part where i said he was going to get hit with a kill move anyway, so ill say it again.

he would have clanked, and got a laggy landing which the pit would have punished with a kill move no matter what

ps. if your quick enough with the fair, itll clank with the g air and than you get to down air him for free with lucario.

Lucario won't have the airspeed/fallspeed to get to MK with Dair

also the MK could have done the FF cancel and avoided it

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

he COULD have, but wait, this is actual gameplay.

also just for referance, we recently found out that we can just cancel out most of nado by doing:

shield>jump cancelled WOI (which just cancells the hit and the WOI> buffered shield> jc WOI> etc.

also we can just outright beat it with ftilt if they start at a decent distance. or retreating mirror shield will at least block hits and let pit go to the ledge from where he can just mix up his scrooging. these are all things i actually do anyways

so much stuff i had to read, this was the only thing i found relevant to post about. feels kinda like a bunch of talk about pit vs mk/lucario vs mk.

also at Kid Goggles, PTZR is right, we can just slant the arrow down immediately after release so that it goes in a straight diagonally downward trajectory and will always hit and stop spin dash. or we could just hold out infinite jab which outright beats it based on how far away you are.

 

[Steam]

yeah he could have. meaning it was a mistake by the player and shouldn't be held against the character in matchup discussions. the FF upB cancel not hard to do by any means

edit: or you can add that to the list of yet another read pit has to make to punish SL hard.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

still would have led to something bad for MK. oh and i remember earlier reading saying it doesn't matter if they get hit by sour spot bair. actually it does because when buffered properly sour bair>crit bair is a true combo. and if they get hit by an auto cancelled sour spot bair on the ground they are now able to be hit by:
fsmash
dair
dash attack
dsmash (if they were hit by the weird upclose box in front or they could just buffer pivot>dsmash)
and buffered pivot jab (which is dangerous due to the fact that pit can jab cancel> fsmash, dsmash, dtilt, grab, hyphen usmash)

all of that is true combo out of sour spot bair. most of it is deadly at kill percents. just thought i'd throw that out because i know earlier some1 said sour bair is no threat. well it is.

 

[NickRiddle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS3yDjoaBCA
Pit can beat MK's tornado with these aerials.
inb4groundednado
Grounded tornado and aerial tornado have the same properties so the aerials will still win it spaced like this.

 

[Steam]

if pit jumped and MK had done the FF cancel then MK would not have been touched. and pit would possibly be punished.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

you need to study our character more if you're saying that pit couldn't follow the fast fall (you are refering to when he becomes helpless correct) and hit him with bair or any other grounded move via divebomb.

and just for referance in case your unfamiliar with it vvvvv

Divebomb is using WOI to immeditely cancell your aerial movement and shoot downwards and either use an aerial OR land without any lag via dair cancel on the ground (this is actually called wing landing when used this way) and that just leaves MK open for punishment as well.

 

[da K.I.D.]

steam the fact that you just said lucario cant fair > dair to beat mks glide attack despite the fact that ive watched it happen, and done it myself hundreds of times stupifies me.

also, inorder to do the fast fall cancel you have to glide downwards for a specific amount of time because 1. it wont cancel and he gets the laggy landing if you end the glide too high and 2. he needs the downward glide speed increase to get to the ground within the cancel window, neither of which he can do be fore pit punishes, almost every character in the game can punish sl loop on shield. and the ones that cant get a guaranteed punish on it, force mk to commit to some thing that will result in a laggy landing and a free punish anyway.

stop being thick headed.

 

[phi1ny3]

wtf, some of this is just going over my head.

Lucario usmash being useful in a regular scenario!?

Pit incapable of aerial oos punishment?!

Wifi MK as a MU discussion topic!?

It's like we've all gone looney in here!

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

wtf, some of this is just going over my head.

Lucario usmash being used in a scenario!?

Pit incapable of aerial oos punishment?!

Wifi MK as a MU discussion topic!?

It's like we've all gone looney in here!

truer words rarely spoken

 

[Steam]

also, inorder to do the fast fall cancel you have to glide downwards for a specific amount of time because 1. it wont cancel and he gets the laggy landing if you end the glide too high and 2. he needs the downward glide speed increase to get to the ground within the cancel window, neither of which he can do be fore pit punishes, almost every character in the game can punish sl loop on shield. and the ones that cant get a guaranteed punish on it, force mk to commit to some thing that will result in a laggy landing and a free punish anyway.

stop being thick headed.

go into training mode. you obviously have never done it before. just hit down and B at the same time as soon as you can do something... it's not hard.

@Maharba- if pit is whiffing a bair he won't be punishing MK for it since he gets a lagless landing. but of course if pit gets another read : D

@phil- I never said upsmash was useful :/

 

[da K.I.D.]

go into training mode. you obviously have never done it before. just hit down and B at the same time as soon as you can do something... it's not hard.

Ive done it and had it done to me in tournament, you either get hit anyway because you dont fall fast enough or you get punished anyway because canceling the glide as early as possible like that results in a laggy landing. in order for it to be lagless you have to be be gliding down wards for at least a small amount of time.

this is the third time ive explained this, why is it getting through to you?

 

[Steam]

Ive done it and had it done to me in tournament, you either get hit anyway because you dont fall fast enough or you get punished anyway because canceling the glide as early as possible like that results in a laggy landing. in order for it to be lagless you have to be be gliding down wards for at least a small amount of time.

this is the third time ive explained this, why is it getting through to you?

...

I guess I have to make a vid of it real quick lol

or maybe just wait for any given MK user to come in here.

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQpRtCJ_sbA <--- there >.>

and most of the time I'm not even doing it as fast as possible... if you see him with his wings out I did it too slow. the one at :10 was about perfect

 

[Nike.]

You should make a vid with pit shielding the upb and then trying to hit him with the bair. We know what the FF cancel looks like lol.

And try it with Pit's dair, I'd be willing to bet that Pit could hit the FF cancel version of it with his dair.

 

[Pikabunz]

SL is very punishable OoS. Even Ganon can jump OoS and hit MK with his ever so deadly Fair before MK can even glide attack or glide cancel thus ending MK's life forever.

So I don't see why Pit can't get a guaranteed punish from it.

 

[Conviction]

K Prime finds game freezing stuff and if says it's doable with ganon, then you're wrong.

GG cp?

 

[Steam]

You should make a vid with pit shielding the upb and then trying to hit him with the bair. We know what the FF cancel looks like lol.

And try it with Pit's dair, I'd be willing to bet that Pit could hit the FF cancel version of it with his dair.

apparently KiD didn't

also I'm only one person. I can't do that.

and good for ganon/anyone else if they can do that. even in the vid they referenced the pit was far too slow on reaction to the SL get the guranteed bair... I don't think it's safe to say pit is going to get a bair punish every time even if that's true.

 

[Flayl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS3yDjoaBCA
Pit can beat MK's tornado with these aerials.
inb4groundednado
Grounded tornado and aerial tornado have the same properties so the aerials will still win it spaced like this.

Wow... Um...

You might want to have the MK press B repeatedly. Hopefully someone in the BBR or in the smash lab will explain to you why, since that's their job. I appreciate the good intention though.

 

[Steam]

Wow... Um...

You might want to have the MK press B repeatedly. Hopefully someone in the BBR or in the smash lab will explain to you why, since that's their job. I appreciate the good intention though.

yeah that was all grounded nado lmao

 

[Flayl]

It's not because it's grounded. Being grounded is just another consequence.

 

[Raziek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKLd2BcLQQ#t=08m06s that was definitely a guaranteed punish. and in that situation, the only thing that the mk could have done was g air to clank, at which point he would have gotten the laggy landing and the pit would have punished with a kill move anyway.
lucario has guaranteed punishes off a grounded Sl in fair at the very least.

Am I the only one who watched through to 8:50 where that EXACT situation happened a second time, except Earth got **** on by a glide attack for trying to punish?

 

[phi1ny3]

go into training mode. you obviously have never done it before. just hit down and B at the same time as soon as you can do something... it's not hard.

@Maharba- if pit is whiffing a bair he won't be punishing MK for it since he gets a lagless landing. but of course if pit gets another read : D

@phil- I never said upsmash was useful :/

Oh, my mistake.

 

[Steam]

It's not because it's grounded. Being grounded is just another consequence.

if it's grounded it can be beat out by a lot more moves :/

@raziek- that too I guess lol. shuttle loop has little shield lag/shield stun making it pretty hard to punish on reaction even if it's guranteed. even one of the best Japanese pits can't do it fast enough to get a guranteed punish.

 

[NickRiddle]

Wow... Um...

You might want to have the MK press B repeatedly. Hopefully someone in the BBR or in the smash lab will explain to you why, since that's their job. I appreciate the good intention though.

MK pressing B doesn't do anything.
It makes his weak spot harder to hit due to it moving.

 

[Flayl]

Are you willing to bet money on that?

 

[NickRiddle]

Are you willing to bet money on that?

I'm making a video tonight.
No editing, and no replays.
I'll post it here when I'm done, and either make a lot of people feel very stupid, or make me feel very stupid.
I'm betting on the former.

 

[Steam]

inb4nickriddlefeelsstupid

 

[Pitzer]

Am I the only one who watched through to 8:50 where that EXACT situation happened a second time, except Earth got **** on by a glide attack for trying to punish?

Pit has other options punishing Up-b..

As far as this topic of Pit goes Smh again..

 

[NickRiddle]

I mean... if I had never beaten aerial nado with an aerial, I'd bow to your guys' better knowledge.
But... I've beaten it before.
With like 3 different moves... out of 5...
Meh, you'll see.