Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Jimmyfosho]

more like he stopped going...

 

[Steam]

Uh no.....
Theres a difference between placing top 8 one time and consistently placing top 8.

so if 9B's Lucario just kept winning in japan you'd say that lucario should get a boost/matchup considerations?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i would (on the MU consideration part) because personally i feel if they are doing better in the same MUs there than we are here, it could mean that they know something about the MU that we don't that affects how it pans out. you never know, i mean there is still plenty to learn in this game.

 

[Steam]

i would (on the MU consideration part) because personally i feel if they are doing better in the same MUs there than we are here, it could mean that they know something about the MU that we don't that affects how it pans out. you never know, i mean there is still plenty to learn in this game.

IDK about pits... but 9B right now is just a really smart 09 Lucario... You can only apply it to matchups when it's some sort of new tactic... otherwise it's pretty much that the player is probably better... Do Japanese pits have some amazing tactic pits here don't feel like using?

 

[Lenus Altair]

IDK about pits... but 9B right now is just a really smart 09 Lucario... You can only apply it to matchups when it's some sort of new tactic... otherwise it's pretty much that the player is probably better... Do Japanese pits have some amazing tactic pits here don't feel like using?

The Pits in Japan don't have any tech we don't know about (as far as I understand.) Frankly I just see them as smarter/better players. Is it to the point where they are outliers for the character? That is probably the real debate to their relevance.

What I understand in Japan is that, while Masashi and Earth are distinctly the top Pits, there are still others that do well, so I tend to lean that they are not complete outliers (unlike Ally playing with Falcon for kicks. No pun intended.)

 

[Judo777]

Krystedez, i was refering to the people who are solo pit mains or who said they are going solo pit for at least a while (kuro, esca, luckay). You said it yourself, AND

don't feel left out buddy, it's just that your co-maining. and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just you don't fit into the solo pit category atm

edit:
damn, i haven't seen that vid for a while. forgot how beast ramen was until he fell off of the face of the brawl universe....

To be honest very rarely can any character that not high tier have a solo main without needing secondaries.

 

[Seagull Joe]

the only pit who is around japan status skill wise here in the US is koolaid, and he does just fine against all of pit's even MUs as and just owns in general. how come his accomplishments and skill is being overlooked in all of this. you guys keep saying, "pit's here don't place well in tourney" and you are correct to a degree because most pit players

1 don't get to go to a lot of tournies
2 aren't even close to koolaid in terms of skill

just that seeing as how koolaid is the only high (top 5 consistently) placing pit in america, i would think his accomplishments would be a good source of knowledge MU wise as well. and between him and japan, together they've demonstrated pit being successful against pretty much every top tier character like our MU chart in the pit boards demonstrates.

the real problem here is lack of representation character wise in the tournament scene. the only pit's who are going to tournaments even semi-consistently here in 2011 are me, kiraflax, kuro, esca, ptzr, luckay, and koolaid. that's it. 7 pit's are tournament active/semi active in north america, and only koolaid is a top level player. esca is close but will be retiring brawl after genesis, and the rest of us just started getting legitly competitive this year (kuro doing FL stuff, me in the texas circuit, luckay/pitz doin local stuff, and koolaid doing his thing out there with fatal bizcuit and malcom). oh ya fyre has gone to a couple tournies as well so i guess that means there are 8 competitive in the whole of the US atm.

we don't even have enough players to make a ratio with other tourney mains comparatively

Pitzer and Luckay are from my region and they are good, but they don't beat our PR members. Current, new, or past .

Luckay is one of my oldest training partners, but he knows Pit isn't as good as you make him sound to be. He knows Pit has his limits.

Pitzer is the same way except add super gay planking to him.

Krystedez, i was refering to the people who are solo pit mains or who said they are going solo pit for at least a while (kuro, esca, luckay). You said it yourself, AND

don't feel left out buddy, it's just that your co-maining. and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just you don't fit into the solo pit category atm

edit:
damn, i haven't seen that vid for a while. forgot how beast ramen was until he fell off of the face of the brawl universe....

Pitzer uses Mk a lot.

Luckay uses Pikachu plenty.

They are NOT solo Pits.

To be honest very rarely can any character that not high tier have a solo main without needing secondaries.

Hence why I have a Metaknight.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i know that in general they aren't solo pits. but we all agreed that the next tourney we go to we are going solo pit (hence why i listed them). im always solo pit because im just not comfortable with my secondaries anymore and just enjoy pit more, so im a guarenteed solo pit. the others have been saying they'll go solo pit for a few tournies at least just to show what their capable of. but i get where you guys are coming from.

 

[Browny]

To be honest very rarely can any character that not high tier have a solo main without needing secondaries.

This is interesting...

You say it is rare, ill say it is impossible. In the simplest meaning of the word, a character can not place, solo, similar to higher tier characters unless they themselves are higher tier.

It is all about outdated opinions. If the 'rare' characters you refer to placed where they do today, in 2008/09, you wouldnt be saying that at all. You would call them higher tier and be done with it.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

IDK about pits... but 9B right now is just a really smart 09 Lucario... You can only apply it to matchups when it's some sort of new tactic... otherwise it's pretty much that the player is probably better... Do Japanese pits have some amazing tactic pits here don't feel like using?

why would you bring up something that old? i thought you were saying he still is placing high and doing better with lucario. i thought it was weird because i thought he was purely ICs and DDD anymore, and im pretty sure he is.

 

[Judo777]

This is interesting...

You say it is rare, ill say it is impossible. In the simplest meaning of the word, a character can not place, solo, similar to high tier characters unless they themselves are high tier.

It is all about outdated opinions. If the 'rare' characters you refer to placed where they do today, in 2008/09, you wouldnt be saying that at all. You would call them high tier and be done with it.

I said rarely cause I'm fairly certain San doesn't second anyone in tournament.

 

[dean.]

why would you bring up something that old? i thought you were saying he still is placing high and doing better with lucario. i thought it was weird because i thought he was purely ICs and DDD anymore, and im pretty sure he is.

I think he's saying that 9B is currently placing extremely high with a 2009-styled Lucario, not he placed high with Lucario in 2009. I haven't seen him use Dedede for a while...

 

[Steam]

what he said ^

he just picked up lucario lmao

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

gotcha. misunderstood your wording is all

 

[Krystedez]

Browny, you should switch your mains for your seconds and play like Ally

 

[~ Gheb ~]

9B is not "currently placing extremely high" with Lucario. He got 4th at one occasion, a smashfest-esque singles event with single elimination and best of one sets. The best player he beat there was Rain ... against the one high tier character Lucario arguably does best against. If he keeps on placing that high is completely up in the air and may or may not turn out true.

His Lucario is better than just a "smart 2009 Lucario". You guys need to realize how much better he controls the very fundamentals of this game. His spacing and technical precision instantly put him ahead of most players.

 

[John12346]

Just for the record, I have no recorded money wins for 9B yet...

Yet.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That won't change any time soon...

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

He just made hrnut look so helpless lol.

This is just me being impatient, I would normally **** that kid, its literally the first & only time he's ever beaten me out of the billion times I've owned him lol

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Just for the record, I have no recorded money wins for 9B yet...

Yet.

I'm pretty sure that's because japan doesn't play for money. I could be wrong though

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Beating one of the best MKs in Japan...................

You didn't answer my question. Why Pit does as well if not better than Luc, can you tell me outside of citing Japan. What are they doing in Japan that makes it not that bad?

As for Trela vs Anti,

So how did you feel about that game v. Anti? Looked really hard rofl.

It was until the Anti Loop came in that I didn't know what to do. I managed to find him again afterwards and try to figure out how to get past it, but my attempts failed every single time. I mean, he got me SEVEN times in a ROW with it! Me and my friends are going to experiment with it this weekend so we can get it out of the way for good, and hopefully, we do.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12246948&postcount=128

I guess this sort of helps.

 

[Steam]

His Lucario is better than just a "smart 2009 Lucario". You guys need to realize how much better he controls the very fundamentals of this game. His spacing and technical precision instantly put him ahead of most players.

Basically what I'm saying. His playstyle is extremely simple but effective. Lee martin was always the same. Simple compared to other top lucarios but very effective because he was a very smart player.

also Falco isn't the only high tier lucario does decent against... Olimar is evenish (even on this chart), ICs is even, Pit is even (who is high tier in japan), and he soft counters pikachu (but no one uses him in japan)

 

[Chuee]

You didn't answer my question. Why Pit does as well if not better than Luc, can you tell me outside of citing Japan. What are they doing in Japan that makes it not that bad.

If you're asking how they play the MU then I can tell you one thing.
They shoot lots of arrows.

 

[Steam]

If you're asking how they play the MU then I can tell you one thing.
They shoot lots of arrows.

why don't american pits shoot lots of arrows?

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Because they broke their B buttons by tornadoing too mcuh

IMO

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If you're asking how they play the MU then I can tell you one thing.
They shoot lots of arrows.

So you have no answer really.

 

[Chuee]

So you have no answer really.

I don't even know what you're asking really.
It's not that the Pits there play some super different style or something, it's that they're much better skill wise. You can't really take Pit's accomplishments here and say it means he's bad, seeing as most of the Pit's are just getting outplayed by better players.

 

[Steam]

I don't even know what you're asking really.
It's not that the Pits there play some super different style or something, it's that they're much better skill wise. You can't really take Pit's accomplishments here and say it means he's bad, seeing as most of the Pit's are just getting outplayed by better players.

Lucarios are getting outplayed by better players... 9B is just starting to learn lucario and he's already done well with him.... so Lucario for Atier?

 

[Smoom77]

so are they gonna update this?

 

[Chuee]

Lucarios are getting outplayed by better players... 9B is just starting to learn lucario and he's already done well with him.... so Lucario for Atier?

Yeah, I'm going to stop responding now because you're doing a really bad job of trolling.

 

[phi1ny3]

Itz cuz 'merican Pit's bows are b0rk3n, they can only shewt sircular arrowz.

JP Pitz get laid, there4 they must b strayt

/bad joke

 

[Steam]

Yeah, I'm going to stop responding now because you're doing a really bad job of trolling.

It's the same logic... It took 9B like a week of using lucario to do to rain what lee martin's lucario did.

 

[Chuee]

It's the same logic... It took 9B like a week of using lucario to do to rain what lee martin's lucario did.

ok?
Maybe you missed Gheb's post but that was a best of one tourney, and 9B's already a ridiculously good player.
I'm not seeing what that has to do with Pit being good because they win his tougher MU's in Japan (Lucario vs Falco is close to even)

 

[Lenus Altair]

Itz cuz 'merican Pit's bows are b0rk3n, they can only shewt sircular arrowz.

JP Pitz get laid, there4 they must b strayt

/bad joke

Lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09IyLblmYU

Yup that's exactly it! I can't keep my arrows straight so I lose

(Still get laid thought)

 

[MysteryTigerTeen]

Lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09IyLblmYU

Yup that's exactly it! I can't keep my arrows straight so I lose

(Still get laid thought)

You posted a match vs an Ike...? That really doesn't help Pit's case. I've also never even heard of this Ike.

Edit: Seagull on Tiger's account.

 

[Lenus Altair]

You posted a match vs an Ike...? That really doesn't help Pit's case. I've also never even heard of this Ike.

Edit: Seagull on Tiger's account.

I wasn't posting it as an argument to aid Pit's case, just going with the joke.

 

[da K.I.D.]

since the pit mains are still here, back to pit v sonic.

main point I want to get across is that sonic is very very good at controlling his spindash.

as soon as sonic goes into the animation where he is charging the spindash, he cant be hit by straight arrows, you have to curve them to hit him. but sonic can release the spindash at any time, and trying to find the exact timing and moment to curve an arrow against the fastest non teleport move in the game, is not feasible, to say the least.

not to mention the fact that the beginning of side b, and air down b both beat arrows out right.

 

[Lenus Altair]

as soon as sonic goes into the animation where he is charging the spindash, he cant be hit by straight arrows, you have to curve them to hit him. but sonic can release the spindash at any time, and trying to find the exact timing and moment to curve an arrow against the fastest non teleport move in the game, is not feasible, to say the least.

You're assuming that when I talk about bending my arrows down a mean firing it straight a turning it down on top of sonic's position. What I'm actually talking about is bending the arrow immediately down and curving it back up to skim low on the ground. Unless the sonic is already close/had already released his spindash as I first pull an arrow, it's quite feasible.

 

[Pitzer]

Pitzer and Luckay are from my region and they are good, but they don't beat our PR members. Current, new, or past .

Luckay is one of my oldest training partners, but he knows Pit isn't as good as you make him sound to be. He knows Pit has his limits.

Pitzer is the same way except add super gay planking to him.

Pitzer uses Mk a lot.

Luckay uses Pikachu plenty.

They are NOT solo Pits.

Hence why I have a Metaknight.

I use Mk in bad match up's, and in Doubs. Also, I don't beat PR members cause I don't usually go up to Nova. Also there is a Solo Pit Main who lives in NC. Pit is Good he's viable to an extent. He's not God awful like uhh.. some people under him.

as soon as sonic goes into the animation where he is charging the spindash, he cant be hit by straight arrows, you have to curve them to hit him. but sonic can release the spindash at any time, and trying to find the exact timing and moment to curve an arrow against the fastest non teleport move in the game, is not feasible, to say the least.

You can easily hit sonic by pushing B then C-stick down.

 

[Esca]

Pitzer and Luckay are from my region and they are good, but they don't beat our PR members. Current, new, or past ..

I was on the Texas PR as Pit for a while, and have beaten alot of PR-ed Texas players. Maharba is right!