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Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

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-LzR-

-LzR-

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True dat actually.
But yes, if you character doesn't have many technical aspects, you can just perfect the basics. Being able to do everything frameperfect to make your character as fast as possible is the way to go. Many lowlevel players could get so much better by just going to training mode and trying to master their speed.
 
Supermodel From Paris

Supermodel From Paris

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-LzR- said:
True dat actually.
But yes, if you character doesn't have many technical aspects, you can just perfect the basics. Being able to do everything frameperfect to make your character as fast as possible is the way to go. Many lowlevel players could get so much better by just going to training mode and trying to master their speed.
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There are definitely a lot of extremely basic things everyone should work on:

-knowing when to buffer and when NOT to buffer. certain characters WALK instead of running when they buffer a dash out of certain actions (landing, turnaround, moving). peach for instance and immediately dash after a turnaround, but zss walks. this has actually gotten me punished a million times and i ese it happen to others a lot as well

-not giving your opponent the ledge when you hog them. seriously, i see amazing players get nervous and give up the ledge when their opponent would have died allllll the time.

-getting a feel for when a move ends, and knowing when you can dash afterwards. this is extremely useful for fast characters especially
 
Doc King

Doc King

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When is this matchup chart gonna come? It's been a while.

Edit: Christmas just passed, so where is it?
 
Marc

Marc

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We ran into some problems, but it should still be out soon. I'm hoping tomorrow or the day after that, depends on how much help I can get.
 
Dre89

Dre89

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Marc said:
We ran into some problems, but it should still be out soon. I'm hoping tomorrow or the day after that, depends on how much help I can get.
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That is unacceptable.

I expect that a free service, done by volunteers with other life commitments, that I haven't done anything to earn should be on time.

Doesn't sound like an unreasonable demand....

:phone:
 
l1striker1l

l1striker1l

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Dre. said:
That is unacceptable.

I expect that a free service, done by volunteers with other life commitments, that I haven't done anything to earn should be on time.

Doesn't sound like an unreasonable demand....

:phone:
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Haha well put. But in all seriousness, since the backroom said it would be done by the end of December a while ago, they still have a few days.

:phone:

:phone:
 
Dre89

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Well they better deliver or else....people will complain and get infracted....

Dre strikes again.
 
infiniteV115

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Uh, how did you ascertain this information?
I'm just a little skeptical about DDD being able to pivot grab/dash grab Wario out of air release. Is it just something you tried in training mode or did you test it out frame-by-frame?

And I'm pretty sure you can't infinite with the footstool tech chase. Wario could just continue to get closer to one edge by rolling that way+falling that way after a footstool. Then when he's right next to it, once you footstool him he falls off the stage.
 
Doc King

Doc King

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infiniteV115 said:
Uh, how did you ascertain this information?
I'm just a little skeptical about DDD being able to pivot grab/dash grab Wario out of air release. Is it just something you tried in training mode or did you test it out frame-by-frame?

And I'm pretty sure you can't infinite with the footstool tech chase. Wario could just continue to get closer to one edge by rolling that way+falling that way after a footstool. Then when he's right next to it, once you footstool him he falls off the stage.
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The Wario stuff was just tested on training mode. I should probably retest it since I was using Wario's nair to escape. BTW, what frame does Wario's nair come in for first hitbox?

I was referring to the Squirtle stuff though.
 
Z

zmx

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-LzR- said:
So where exactly does this magical techskill come in Brawl outside of SDI or awesome buffering?
Just look at my char, G&W, there is like absolutely nothing technical about him :(
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First off, GnW is one of the few characters where Tech skill isn't immediately apparent. It is true he really is about spacing and reads.

However I disagree. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean there is nothing technical about him.

Anyways most of the cast DOES have a lot of stuff that's extremely technical. The biggest examples are probably icys, Falco, and most characters that use items.

And you need to watch Salem play which I'm assuming you haven't or else you would not think this.

Edit:

Keep in mind there is some technical stuff in brawl that's extremely relevant to just about every character. Stuff like techs, true pivots, glide tosses (game and watch has one of the best ones), platform cancels etc.
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

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The most technical thing I saw Salem do was the downB spike cancel-->bair on Will in game 3. Nothing else really required much tech skill.

Edit: Oh, and platform cancels I guess.
 
Z

zmx

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I remember him doing a lot of true pivots with all of his B moves especially neutral B. There were also a lot of instant toss item setups. Also he cancelled his tether from the ledge several times immediately into other moves. There are probably a lot of other things I'm forgetting.

But no doubt he was a smart player too. He made some really good reads and I love how he'd almost never rely on rolls since ZSS dash speed is so good. He had very good resets you wouldn't expect.
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

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I guess you and I have different ideas regarding whether or not something requires a notable amount of tech skill. B-reversing neutralB is very easy, and it's something I do all the time (picked it up from Dakpo). Instant toss isn't very hard either, though he did them consecutively and was thinking about what he was doing with them (ie not autopiloting the instant tosses). Only move I remember him doing with the tether cancel was downB, other times he just jumped out.
But now I'm beginning to remember that his powershielding was top notch.

I was gonna suggest that we change the topic, but I remembered that this thread doesn't really matter anymore
 
Z

zmx

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infiniteV115 said:
I guess you and I have different ideas regarding whether or not something requires a notable amount of tech skill. B-reversing neutralB is very easy, and it's something I do all the time (picked it up from Dakpo). Instant toss isn't very hard either, though he did them consecutively and was thinking about what he was doing with them (ie not autopiloting the instant tosses). Only move I remember him doing with the tether cancel was downB, other times he just jumped out.
But now I'm beginning to remember that his powershielding was top notch.

I was gonna suggest that we change the topic, but I remembered that this thread doesn't really matter anymore
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I'm curious:

Are you talking about b-reversing neutral B's in the air or on the ground? I was talking about on the ground. So you cancel a dash into a turnaround neutral B. I still can't do this (though I'm not sure if it's a timing issue or if I just don't know how to do it properly) whereas other stuff like Shiek's DACUS I can do. I guess tech difficulty may be a bit subjective.

If you're talking about b-reversing in the air, well to me at least that seems much easier. I can do it consistently for the most part.

Edit:
That's what I meant with insta-tossing. He was doing them one after the other and with a purpose unlike most players. I don't think you'll disagree that no other ZSS uses the armor pieces that well.
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

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Papa Mink, not you too!

I was talking about it on the ground (I assumed that's what you were referring to, zmx, cause Salem does it a lot) and it's really easy. These are the inputs

Hold forward (for running)
Let go of forward
Press B
Press backward

....Seriously I do it all the time and it's really easy. Or maybe my tech skill is amazing :O
 
Z

zmx

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Lol that definitively was NOT how I was attempting them. Thanks, I'm going to try that and see if it works.
 
Z

zmx

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Papa Mink said:
Oh

Maybe i'm just bad at going to neutral stick before the B input.

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Then I am as well >_>. Only managed to do it a few times. Though I suppose using a classic controller doesn't help.

That or infinite, you have more tech skill than you thought. You might be so used to it that you don't realize that it actually requires precise timing.


Edit:

Never mind. I just realized it requires the same sort of input timing air b-reversals do. Yes, I hadn't thought of that before. /facepalm

Okay so perhaps it's not the most technical thing in the world but it's still fairly technical.
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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The banana lock on G&W should work. I tried it out against my friend spamming up b and he couldn't get out. Not only does he have one of the worst rolls and trip animations in the game, but his invincibility on the parachute starts at frame 5 and that's not including his get up animation (7 additional frames).
 
Player-1

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I'm not sure if he is or not for sure, I've just heard that CPUs do it as fast as possible, but I'm not sure if that's completely true or not, just what I heard
 
Z

zmx

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SaveMeJebus said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_ZvOEnbnOY

It's basically what he is doing at the beginning except you have the instathrow forward. It's a legit tech chase on most other characters too.
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Just like to point out that the title is misleading. At least half of the things shown were not true combos at all.

All the same great video. I don't get why top Diddys don't try these sort of banana locks (especially the ones that ARE true combos) more often. I get it might be hard to perfect and do in high level matches but if you're a Diddy main I don't see why you wouldn't learn to do this sort of stuff. There's always more stuff to be found out about any character.

I also like how most of the locks involved only one banana making them even more deadly as a diddy player doesn't really have to be "setup" per se to do them.
 
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