NU to OU: The Next Chapter

[Wave⁂]

..no i don't

Yes, you do. You're saying Heatran isn't a PERFECT F***ING COUNTER HOLY F***ING GOD D*** S*** because he isn't guaranteed to switch in and KO Ursaring before Ursaring KOs him.

Wake up.

There are no perfect counters in OU.

i just feel you guys are underestimating how powerful an extreme speed is with ursaring

arceus, when it was allowed in ubers, was destroying everything with extreme speed
and we're giving it to a poke with a higher base attack

think about it

How many Ghosts in Ubers outspeed Arceus?
Also, I'd like to see Arceus take down a Forretress with ExtremeSpeed and Shadow Claw before it explodes in his ****ing face. Also, Arceus isn't allowed in Ubers because you can't get a legit one in the US.

Lastly, let me tell you a story.

Ursaring was walking around one day, and he found a Blissey. "Horray!" He thought. "Set-up fodder!" Ursaring gets KOed by Flame Orb and Seismic Toss.
The next day, he finds a Scarf Rotom-H using Shadow Ball. "Could it be? Set-up fodder!" He switches in, and Rotom-H begins crying, and runs away. Ursaring uses Swords Dance. "Who dares to fight me?" A wild Scizor attacks! "Oh **** me," said Ursaing, fainting.

Condensed form:

1. Ursaring needs a free switch-in.
2. Ursaring must predict Scizor switch-ins, and Fire Punch without using Swords Dance.
3. He must also predict Tyranitar switch-ins, and use Close Combat.
4. He also should use Crunch, since the opponent has five Scarf Rotom-As and a Scarf Gengar.
5. Oh hey look, Heatproof Bronzong.

So, when you switch in Ursaring, you must use EarthFireCombatCrunch Dance or die.
Wait, where's ExtremeSpeed?

 

[supermarth64]

Ok so:

1a) Get Ursaring in on an attack, a status move, or after a sacrifice. If you're doing 1, you're losing HP due to the attack, SR, potentially Spikes, potentially sandstorm. Let's say you get it in on Swampert's Ice Beam, which does 20% min. Another 12.5% from Stealth Rock and you're already down to 67.5% before you even set up. Even if you were to use a Swords Dance, what keeps Swampert from using Earthquake to deal another 40% min to Ursaring, which with one turn of burn gets it down to 15% HP left. This means that Ursaring will have a grand total of one turn in order to sweep.
1b) If you were to get it in on a status move, such as WoW, then you're taking 100% - 12.5% (SR) - 12.5% (WoW) - 35% (Tbolt) - 12.5% (burn), which if 27.5% right before you even begin to sweep. That amount is easily revenge killable by Scizor, Jirachi, Gengar, etc.
1c) If you get it in after a sacrifice, you'd have to get it in on something that can't deal much damage to it. Blissey would be a prime example of it, as you only take 100% - 12.5% from SR. Obviously stall teams are going to have trouble with Ursaring, but since many stall teams carry Sandstorm, you're losing 18.75% HP every turn. Additionally, since full stall is rare nowadays (many teams are now semistall), you'd have to deal with Tyranitar, who can deal 55-65% with Stone Edge or KO Ursaring with Superpower.
2) Predict perfectly. Ok so you're going to predict my Heatran switchin and use Close Combat on me. Cool, well I predict your Close Combat and switch in Rotom-A instead. Oh well you predict that and use Crunch instead? Well I can always go into Heatran anyway. Predicting means nothing if you're using it to only balance one side's argument. You have to assume that both players will be on equal footing.

I had more arguments but the length of my post made me forget some of them lol.

 

[Wave⁂]

To be honest, I forget if mood4food is talking about Swords Dance or Belly Drum since he's mentioned both.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

1b) If you were to get it in on a status move, such as WoW, then you're taking 100% - 12.5% (SR) - 12.5% (WoW) - 35% (Tbolt) - 12.5% (burn), which if 27.5% right before you even begin to sweep. That amount is easily revenge killable by Scizor, Jirachi, Gengar, etc.

Wait.

-Terywj

 

[supermarth64]

First turn WoW, then another after he sets up a SD. The Tbolt comes from the SD turn. So like:

Ursaring switches in. SR damage, 87.5%.
Rotom-A uses WoW. Burn damage. 75%.

Rotom-A uses Tbolt. 40% damage.
Ursaring uses SD. Takes burn damage. 27.5%.

 

[Wave⁂]

That's assuming you're switching into Rotom-H's Will-o-Wisp.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Oh. You didn't mention the Swords Dance between so I was confused.

But I'm probably just stupid.

-Terywj

 

[Oracle]

+6 Silk Scarf E-speed vs. 252/0 Scizor: 100.3% - 118.1%
+6 Silk Scarf E-speed vs. 252/0 Heatran (Bulkiest set in analysis): 84.7% - 99.7%
+6 Fire Punch vs. 252/176 Skarmory: 128.1% - 150.9%
The only thing that can stop it are faster ghosts like gengar and other, faster priority users. Walls don't stand a chance. You really need Fire Punch and Earthquake on the Belly Drum set as they hit all of the rock, steel and slower ghost (lolDusknoir) fine without the defense boosts of close combat. The only one that they miss is Aerodactyl, who dies to espeed anyways (161.6% - 190.4% hahaha)

Extremespeed is redundant on that agility set; the only reason to use ursa is for stab boosted Facade



Getting stopped by scizor doesn't make him bad at sweeping. Scizor stops gengar cold, yet gengar can still tear teams apart once scizor and blissey have been eliminated. You guys are acting like he sucks because he can't do well without support. No pokemon can do well without support. By your guys' logic, lucario sucks because even though he has lots of opportunities to set up, scarf heatran, tyranitar, rotom, and any gengar can easily get past it.


For jumpluff, even with spore it wouldn't be all that great, but I could see it being OU (probably near the bottom, however)

 

[CRASHiC]

Give Hypno slackoff, by learning it as Drowzee levels up so it fits aesthetically. Beyound that, he needs two new ablities. These just don't cut it. What he should do as a pokemon is abuse his massive special defense and sleep moves to stall out the opponent.

I say we give him Bad Dreams. Yes, its is exclusive to a legandary, but I don't see any possible set working at an OU level without it. Its sad that Hypnosis got a steep drop in ACC. but the potential this set now has is awsome. It may not have the bulk of Blissey, but it does have good stalling power.

That's the best I can come up with, and it still only makes him a super good UU pokemon I fear. Without an evolution, he just won't cut it. He needs to evolve.

 

[Wave⁂]

So we're talking about Belly Drum?

Stealth Rocks + whatever you switched into = But it failed!

Give Hypno a new move called Hypnotize or something, same as Spore.

 

[Moozle]

For jumpluff, even with spore it wouldn't be all that great, but I could see it being OU (probably near the bottom, however)

I'm not sure giving Jumpluff spore would make it OU because it would be completely predictable. The same can kind of be said about those Hypno suggestions, but I do think slack off and bad dreams would help him A LOT.

 

[CRASHiC]

Give Hypno a new move called Hypnotize or something, same as Spore.

Oooooh, I think I got it. No Bad Dreams, but a sleep move that inflicts damage while they are asleep, if they return to their pokeball, and return later, they won't receive damage, but will still be asleep.

Still, this needs en evolution to become a monster special wall that it could be.

 

[Wave⁂]

Ability: Sleepiness
Opposing Pokémon is permanently asleep until after switching.

That would be fun.

 

[CRASHiC]

Uber much?

 

[Wave⁂]

Hypno used Belly Drum.









__________________
By the way, Hypno gets Belly Drum.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I'd just like to point out that Ursaring could literally switch in to Blissey whenever the **** he wanted to and she'd never be able to do anything about it. If she Twave/Toxics that just means you have a +6 Guts/Quick Feet behemoth ready to 6-0 the world. The fact that there exists a pokemon that Ursaring can set up 100% of the time on no matter what means that he literally cannot be allowed to have both Belly Drum and Extremespeed.

 

[mood4food77]

i'm not saying ursaring will be top dog, i'm saying he'll definitely be OU and probably a commonly used pokemon

i mean, who wouldn't use a base 130 atk pokemon with access to a base 120 priority move

also, 252 HP gives him some good bulkiness

 

[supermarth64]

Yes, 252 HP gives him 1 turn to sweep based on my previous post. That's great bulk.

 

[Wave⁂]

i'm not saying ursaring will be top dog

Uh, yeah, you did.

EDIT: Linoone can sweep 99% pf NU after one Belly Drum, but his usage is incredibly low.

 

[CRASHiC]

Exploud with Mold Breaker and Quick Feet? He's a tuffie.

 

[mood4food77]

i never said he would be

i said he'd be commonly used

i said why scizor is the top guy and it's only because of bullet punch, he's OU for his other reasons (since he was OU before bullet punch anyways)

ursaring has twice the power (almost) as linoone and is a crap load more bulky, also with stronger moves at his disposal, i mean, have you seen linoone's move pool?

 

[Ripple]

if only ninetales had a higher base sp.atk. even 90 would make her at least BL instead of NU

 

[Wave⁂]

OU has Skarmory with like 140 defense. NU has Slowking and Miltank with something like 100.

 

[CRASHiC]

Ninetails needs an original ability and move to set her apart really. She's already an interesting fire type. She just needs some more interesting things to give her use.

 

[mood4food77]

she needs to not be fire type

like, it's a horrible typing to be

 

[CRASHiC]

If you change stealth rocks to do neutral damage to everything, its not so bad. Yes, they are still hurt by earthquake, but they still have potential, since Steel types are so dominant these days. They did decent in the G/S days because of how rampant steel types where. Fire has a lot going for them in terms of potential. With being one of the few people who can take down steel types, being immune and having the power of Will-o-wisp, and moves like "morning sun" you can see the chance for them to be contenders. Honestly, will-o-wisp is enough imo to make them an interesting type. Burn is amazing, I love it.

 

[Wave⁂]

supermarth is right. mood4food isn't good at arguing.

I'm sure if he argued against Garchomp being OU he'd say he has no counters

Ninetales has Energy Ball, couple that with Thunderbolt, and you've got a decent Nasty Plot sweeper. Definitely not OU-worthy, but it would help.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So:

Exploud with Quick Feet and Mold Breaker.
Jumpluff with Spore and Trick.
Hypno with Slack Off (new ability?)
Ursaring with still being debated on.

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

Another option for Hypno is a new sleep move.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Ahh I thought it was maybe a new ability.

What've been the ideas for both?

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

Mine is a move that puts them to sleep, while giving them bad dreams until they switch out. Not a huge game changer, but it will hurt them the first turn and stop sleep talkers from countering it so easily. Oh, and he also gets Slack Off.

The others was an ability that made pokemon asleep whenever they fought him. No. We can't have every pokemon running sleep talk.

 

[Wave⁂]

I like CRASHiC's. My idea was basically Spore.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I already gave Hypno Slack Off. I do like your idea, though, CRASHiC. What should we call it?

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

Hip-no-ties.

Nah just kidding, call it Comatose Roses

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Torture? I'm kinda lost on naming it without not mentioning the other effect.

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

How about Apnea? Its a very painful type of sleep where your body stops breathing, at least what you and me consider breathing.

 

[Wave⁂]

I approve of Apnea.

Apnea or Sleep Apnea?

EDIT: It's actually just a small pause in breathing, you normally don't die. Lots of people have sleep apnea, actually.

 

[CRASHiC]

Oh I know you don't die, but it can be very painful. that's what we are looking for, a sleep that's painful and that has a cool name. Some people even report being fully awake and aware, but unable to to move any part of their body. Frightening really.

 

[Moozle]

My uncle has sleep apnea and he sometimes flails in his sleep. Scary stuff I think it's a good name for the move.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I prefer Apnea over Sleep Apnea. What does everyone else think?

-Terywj