NU to OU: The Next Chapter

[Wave⁂]

Venomoth gets outclassed by Roserade.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Roserade...? Don't you mean Yanmega?

-Terywj

 

[kirbyraeg]

as a spiker, Roserade does.

as a sweeper, yes, Yanmega is already better.

 

[LeviNifty]

Its true that those pokemon outclass Venomoth but Venno has a unique Shield Dust ability which can save it from being flinched by paraflinchers and also from getting various other status problems from attacks like ice beam and thunderbolt

 

[Wave⁂]

Venomoth is also a great switch-in to Machamp's DynamicPunch.

 

[Oracle]

I'm with pink reaper: a lot of these changes would leave the pokemon still in NU or UU. Lanturn wouldn't get any better with tail glow, as it would still be slow as hell, weak on the physical side, and weak to earthquake. Ditto for ampharos, the only difference being he still gets no useful special options.

 

[CRASHiC]

I think you guys are going about it all wrong. Instead of giving it blankey, bland moves that it should have, find it a niche, find it something it could do that no other pokemon could, and build it a niche that would fit nicely in today's metagame, like a Scrappy Lickylicky for example. It shouldn't be just a list of changes, it should be a list of POINTED and DIRECTED changes.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I take back what I said earlier about Ursaring getting Extremespeed. The last thing this game needs is a pokemon that has 130 base attack, BELLY DRUM, and an 80 power priority move.

 

[UltiMario]

The only problem with that is anything thats faster than Ursaring and resists Extremespeed (or has its own priority) is simply going to obliterate the bear with a meager >50% health (Factoring... EVERYTHING in, pretty much). Speed and Priority are such huge parts of this Metagame, that it just goes along with everything and balances out in the end.

Whilst 70 is different then 130, Linoone gets BellySpeed +2 other moves at +1 Spe off in 1 turn, but is it above NU? Nope.

 

[Charmander]

The only problem with that is anything thats faster than Ursaring and resists Extremespeed (or has its own priority) is simply going to obliterate the bear with a meager >50% health (Factoring... EVERYTHING in, pretty much)

Gengar, nuff said

 

[UltiMario]

At this point even Rotom can Nuff said Usaring

 

[mood4food77]

belly drum, extreme speed, close combat, crunch?

that's pretty broken

 

[UltiMario]

Its not really much of a threat in OU even with that.

Any given team should have a way to easily take out a >50% health Ursaring

If they don't then they just have a really bad team.

 

[mood4food77]

Ursaring@Leftovers
Guts/Jolly
252/252/6 (SPE/ATK/DEF)
Belly Drum
Extreme Speed
Crunch
Close Combat

That's a rediculous amount of power, a base 180 priority, base 120 that hits steel types for SE damage, and a base 80 move that hits ghosts

he's pretty much OHKOing everything, once the steel, rock, and ghost types are gone (which he can take care of), he's going to sweep everything, hell even by passing belly drum in favor of agility makes him really good

Ursaring@Flame Orb
Guts/Jolly/Adamant
252/252/6 (ATK/SPE/DEF)
Agility
Extreme Speed
Crunch
Close Combat

that's 2 very viable sets, they're simple but you won't be able to do much to stop it

 

[Wave⁂]

Four move syndrome. Skarmory / Scizor / Rotom / Heatran.

 

[CRASHiC]

Did you guys give Jumpluff spore? I could half see it working from an aesthic standpoint, and it would make its Subseed OU viable, as now its no longer reliant on the crappy Sleep Powder.

Make sure to give it Trick as well. Now its one of the most annoying leads in the game, with 120 base speed running a choice scarf, noting can get past its Trick and Spore.

 

[Charmander]

Did you guys give Jumpluff spore? I could half see it working from an aesthic standpoint, and it would make its Subseed OU viable, as now its no longer reliant on the crappy Sleep Powder.

Make sure to give it Trick as well. Now its one of the most annoying leads in the game, with 120 base speed running a choice scarf, noting can get past its Trick and Spore.

Only half see it working for aethstetic?
ITS GOT SPORES FOR ARMS, WHY DIDNT NINTENDO/GAMEFREAK GIVE IT SPORE
*end rant*
Jumpluff lead+ spore= win
works great with sun

 

[Metal~Mario]

Jumpluff with spore!?!?!

It's so broken it just might work!

 

[mood4food77]

that would be instant OU

jumpluff with spore
ursaring with extreme speed

2 easy fixes right there

 

[Wave⁂]

mood4food has very low standards for OU.

 

[Metal~Mario]

How is a Spore user with 350 Speed and the ability to switch moves not OU?

 

[Metal~Mario]

Screw those 502s.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I support giving Jumpluff Spore and Trick.

I'll edit them in until someone Pink Reaper yells at me for doing something different.

-Terywj

 

[Metal~Mario]

Spore yes.

Trick no.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

C'mon, why no to Trick? It wouldn't make it that bad, I mean Choice Scarf Jumpluff running around with Spore isn't too bad...

-Terywj

 

[supermarth64]

I love how mood didn't reply at all to my "Espeed Ursaring still won't be OU post."

 

[mood4food77]

i thought i did

doesn't everyone realize why scizor is the most used pokemon in OU?
it's because he's got incredible power with an above average power priority move, even though it's resisted by a bunch of types (fire, water, electric, steel), yea it hits 2 types for SE damage but those types aren't very common outside of 1 pokemon (it hits rock and steel, only tyranitar is common)

ursaring has the same base attack and we're giving him an even stronger base power priority move with a type that is only resisted by 3 types (rock, steel, and ghost), in which he can cover those types very well with only 2 attacks that he already has (close combat and crunch)

ursaring is also naturally bulkier than scizor, but scizor has the far superior typing

scizor isn't the best pokemon, he's the best revenge killer, if something has about 50% life left, his bullet punch can KO it if the opposing poke doesn't resist steel, if it does, after 1 SD, it's pretty much a KO on any poke, same thing for ursaring and extreme speed

oh and ursaring with flame orb and guts can reach almost 800 attack, that's pretty ridiculous right there

scizor though does gain u-turn, which is an amazing move and allows him to scout for counters

here's extreme speed and the pokes that are "safe switch-ins" (pokes that resist it) in OU:

Aerodactyl
Bronzong
Dusknoir
Empoleon
Forretress
Gengar
Heatran
Jirachi
Lucario
Magnezone
Metagross
Rotom-A
Scizor
Skarmory
Tyranitar

Here are the pokes that are "safe switch-ins" on bullet punch:

Bronzong
Electivire
Empoleon
Forretress
Gyarados
Heatran
Infernape
Jirachi
Jolteon
Kingdra
Lucario
Magnezone
Metagross
Rotom-A
Scizor
Skarmory
Starmie
Suicune
Swampert
Tentacruel
Vaporeon
Zapdos

if you look, there are plenty more "safe switch-ins" to scizors bullet punch than ursaring's extreme speed

scizor was OU before he obtained bullet punch but he is the top dog only because of bullet punch, he can't do anything else, while ursaring probably would be in the same role

lastly, a STAB extremespeed has double the base power of a STAB technician boost Bullet punch (180 to 90)

it would be the only thing ursaring needs to be OU

 

[Lazyboy0337]

^ don't forget Guts and Quick Feet. Ursaring could then become a good status absorber as well

 

[mood4food77]

yea, guts with sword dance would be nuts

that's like 1600 attack and a base 180 priority move to utilize
that's just...unfair

scizor gayness to the extreme

 

[Wave⁂]

How is a Spore user with 350 Speed and the ability to switch moves not OU?

1. Scizor
2. Crappy typing
3. Scarf users
4. Scizor
5. Really ****ty defensive and offensive stats. It's not even funny
6. Shallow movepool outside of Sleep Power and Sub-Seeding.
7. Lum Berries
8. Mamoswine
9. Scizor

I love how mood didn't reply at all to my "Espeed Ursaring still won't be OU" post.

Also, this

 

[CRASHiC]

Spore yes.

Trick no.

I can't see it being a lead without it. Without Trick at its disposal, its probably going to be BL. As long as Celebi and Breloom remain part of the metagame, there won't be much to fear from him other than that first spore. Breloom has the wonderful ability to switch in, spore, and then still be beast. Jumpluff doesn't. Its light, doesn't hit hard, and can't really do much other than subseed, and a few other gimmicks. Unless Sunny Day becomes standard, it really doesn't have much use. It NEEDS trick, then it becomes an amazing lead, an odd mix of Aerodactyl, lead Jirachi, and lead Smeargal.

 

[mood4food77]

you can't safely switch in on ursaring
with crunch and close combat at his disposal, he can hit almost every other poke that resists extreme speed for SE damage

and with Guts, he'll only need a flame orb to boost his attack to absurd levels so most of those pokes probably aren't going to be living past one of those attacks

and you do realize scizor is easy as hell to counter, it's just an amazing revenge killer since it has a strong priority move, a great typing, and great strength

with ursaring, it's got the same strength, 33% more power in a priority move, and it's just about as bulky as machamp
the main problem is that since it's normal type, switching into stuff is going to be tougher but it can make a great anti-lead

 

[CRASHiC]

Scizor can hit Heatran with super power, but that doesn't stop Heatran from countering Scizor.

 

[mood4food77]

heatran cannot switch in on scizor unless he knows the set, like if you know scizor is banded, you can switch in depending on the move, if he's not banded, you're risking heatran

same thing for ursaring can be said

they'll both be predictable as hell but you can't do anything to stop them

 

[CRASHiC]

You're missing another element to Scizor though. His defense. Scizors defense is terrific, and very few things can take that down. It only so happens that it has the movepool and ability to go on the offense, but that great offense and scouting of his in helped in large part by his ease of switching in and his general bulk and great resistence. No one is going to cry over a fire weakness, there are seldom few of them around to worry too much about. Fighting moves on the other hand are abundant, while ghost moves are rarely seen.

 

[mood4food77]

doesn't matter really when you're hitting someone with a base 120 attack with stupid high attack numbers getting to hit them before they even have a chance to hit you

it's definitely too strong for UU play

after 1 SD, his attack power is going to be 591, that's without guts
add in guts and you have 1082 attack power...that's just...scary

 

[Wave⁂]

you can't safely switch in on ursaring

mood4food, you are assuming you are god, and that is NEVER a good assumption.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

But what's being argued is that it wouldn't necessarily be top contending OU material either.

-Terywj

 

[mood4food77]

..no i don't

i just feel you guys are underestimating how powerful an extreme speed is with ursaring

arceus, when it was allowed in ubers, was destroying everything with extreme speed
and we're giving it to a poke with a higher base attack

think about it

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Ursaring does not possess 120/120 defenses. Need I say more?

-Terywj