oops, I did not mean to start a debate...
Yea, but, if they pick D3 "without even knowing how to play D3", beat you with the infinite, you get the next counter pick and own them, just win the first round! (assuming its best of 3). (unless i don't understand counter-picking, which is well possible) (more brackets)
If I win the first round with DK, I have to swich characters because they could pick D3 for the easy win. Also they can switch back to their main after winning with D3, and my DK versus there main could be a fair fight and not an easy win.
Playing to win? In a competitive scene? BLASPHEMY!
lulz MK isn't even the best counterpick choice in most situations anyway.
Learning curve is a flawed/irrelevant argument. No matter how easy or difficult Broken Tactic X is to pull off, there will always be people who will master and abuse Broken Tactic X to the max. It doesn't make a speck of difference. Ice Climbers' CGs are arguably the most technically demanding necessary thing to learn in Brawl, and in spite of that many people have learnt them and many people still want them banned. "Don't ban CGs, except this one because X." Please leave the double-standardness at the door.
Your point is basically "ban X so I have more fun." Like I mentioned earlier, this is a competitive scene. In a tournament, with money on the line, the kind of fun you're talking about is hardly a priority. If you want "fun," then play lots of friendlies; I'd like to think us Australians are decent-enough people to not be gay outside of tournament.
But hey, ban or no ban, if Shaya's dropping Dedede then there aren't even any Dedede players you need to worry about.
On the topic of fun: I think people here (I know I do) derive their fun from the competitive atmosphere of tournaments, and the excitement of the chance to prove themselves. I know as a competitive player, I don't want people omitting strategies because they're "gay," because not having to deal with it impedes my growth as a player. When it comes to bans like this, that is my line of thought.
IT IS BLASPHEMY!!! lol
MK may not be the best counterpick, but there are no counterpicks against him. Its either he wins the matchup or its nuetral. Why play flawed characters when theres MK? There is fun in mastering different characters here obviously since ive only heard of about 2 MKs.
My learning curve argument does have a good standard imo. My standard is the skill/amount of practice it takes to do an infinate. ICs take skill. D3/Marth/Charizard mostly involve holding R and pressing A or down. I said nothing about banning all infinates, only mindlessly easy standing ones that can go all the way to 999 with no effort. Have you tried either?
I chose to ban it because it makes for a better experience when there are more characters that are playable. You are not locking away hard earned skill by banning it, only 15 minutes at max (Really more like 5 at max). As I said before, I dont mind learning my character enough to overcome some bad matchups, but when something that can be easily removed makes some characters unplayable why keep it in?
My point is ban X because its easily removed and makes for a better game by encouraging more characters to be played, not just because I would have more fun. I even said I will play in the tournament regardless. For example, Meteor has a good ness, a very rare find. Even so, I can just pick Charizard/Marth for an auto win against his Ness and force him into chosing someone else. Why should he use Ness if all someone has to do to beat him is hold R and mash A? It limits the character roster.
On the topic of fun: My point here was its fun to master your character and improve them in competition. Those standing infinates remove some characters. What if Boss came down here? He could most likely beat you guys without mario/luigi but you guys would be missing out by making them virtually unplayable characters unless by counterpick. Also, players like that would have a very low chance if coming into existance in this area.
Also Also, what Luke said.
Conclusively: Even tho most of what u were saying was fact, and is a useful/common opinion, i just didn't feel a harsh sirlinesque shut-down was necessary. it's unlikely it will come up anyway.
Infinite standing grab like Shaya said, has been on and off as far as tournament legality, also varying between TO's. D0N just asked a question, and then responded to S.D's reply, it wasn't really a full fledged debate. I don't think stepping chain grab should be banned, or if it ever has been (officially). It's up to Tedeth under any circumstances.
Prevention is better than cure, ban it now before people use it. Avoid some exploitation by adding a rule. Stepping chain grab and standing grabs are banned in my area and other areas of America. Its banned at Pound 4, a major east coust tournament, if you want to see an official ruleset with it banned. It may have been banned at Genisis too, but im not sure. Of course, this is Australia...
If anyone is against bans in a video game, go look up
ivan ooze is broken on youtube
. Its an extreme case where banning one thing makes the game playable.
