swordsaint
Smash Master
that said if something is difficult by poor design, how is it better than something a bit easier with good design?
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[NSW] Western Sydney Dramacraft: The home of drama!
- Thread starter tedeth
- Start date
iKiLLOTz
Smash Journeyman
Oh gosh, I...uh...might come for a day or two? I make no guarantees...
CaLibUr_1337
Smash Lord
Ill be there if thats an insentive for anyone lol.
For one thing, it’s not just a bit easier, its way easier. But it's not just the difficulty that I’m talking about. Also, you have to remember that this is probably just a personal preference thing. It's more about what I specifically liked about the older games that I only realised I liked when those things were gone. Like the 'mystery' about it all and the need for your own discovery.
Because not much was explained, for example details about the moves, I had to find out everything I knew about them myself (which, incidentally, made it more fun to finish over and over again because there was always something else I could learn). I guess as it turns out, I actually liked little aspects like that. I was able to more easily use my imagination to explain things as opposed to knowing the math behind everything, just for example, which to me just takes all the fun and personality away from the game. That's why I don't like being spoon-fed in these new pokemon games. It's not just being spoon-fed with regards to the difficulty (which the new games also do) but it's the combination of that and being spoon-fed knowledge about how everything works. I don't see how a game that practically completes itself by holding your hand the whole way through can be said to have a 'good design' (this is just an extreme example of new games to prove a point, not necessarily a correct description of them). Do you at least see how the newer games could be made better by leaving more things up to you to figure out instead of telling you everything?
EverAlert
Smash Master
i have to disagree, moves having better descriptions and more info in general is not a bad thing. what the games tell you is still extremely vague in terms of the actual mechanics.
don't get me wrong, i certainly dont think games should hold your hand or anything. i just dont think the new gens are nearly as bad as you describe.
also keep in mind that the less guesswork there is in terms of figuring out underlying mechanics, the easier it is for a competitive scene to thrive. with 650-something species competitive pokemon is complex enough as is without unnecessary guesswork.
don't get me wrong, i certainly dont think games should hold your hand or anything. i just dont think the new gens are nearly as bad as you describe.
also keep in mind that the less guesswork there is in terms of figuring out underlying mechanics, the easier it is for a competitive scene to thrive. with 650-something species competitive pokemon is complex enough as is without unnecessary guesswork.
tedeth
Smash Master
Can't go to the meet due to beng on the South Coast.
Fuuuuuunk. How unfortunate.
Anyway. Everyone who's coming to HTC3 plz PM me or whatever about when you'll be there and what activities you would be interested in through the week so I can figure out logistics.
Possibilities include:
Rock climbing
Other
More rock climbing
EDIT: Maybe I'll make a facebook event on facebook. Hmmmmmmmmmm.
Fuuuuuunk. How unfortunate.
Anyway. Everyone who's coming to HTC3 plz PM me or whatever about when you'll be there and what activities you would be interested in through the week so I can figure out logistics.
Possibilities include:
Rock climbing
Other
More rock climbing
EDIT: Maybe I'll make a facebook event on facebook. Hmmmmmmmmmm.
tedeth
Smash Master
Is it Skyward Flawed in your opinion Foxy?
THAT
JUST
HAPPEED!!!!!
I am so skyward bored......
THAT
JUST
HAPPEED!!!!!
I am so skyward bored......
I never said that moves having better descriptions was a bad thing (even though the way I was talking about them was negative in order to serve the purpose of further highlighting my point), I admit that it was an improvement (I actually really really liked the gold/silver series for things like that). What I'm pointing out however is the flip side; the positive that the step forward leaves behind, that ‘mystery’ element.
It's a hard argument to make because it's hard to pin point just what it was that I didn't like about the new pokemon games. Before it was just an indescribable feeling that there was just something missing, something which I had previously enjoyed that simply wasn’t there anymore. I probably make it sound like I think the new games are all bad, but they're not, they really are improved. But just what positive thing is left behind with each improvement? This cycle of improvement and leaving something behind just got to the point where I literally wasn't enjoying the games as much as the older ones for some reason I couldn’t describe.
I also couldn't care less about the competitive pokemon scene. Sorry guys, but that's just me.
I don't know how else to say it. I just prefer the older ones and this is the best way I can answer the question of, why? Why, when the newer ones are superior in so many ways, would I simply not enjoy playing them? I’ve played through all the pokemon games many times, so don’t think it’s because I haven’t given any a chance to grow on me.
I like it. Still haven't finished it. I'm up to that 4th silent realm thing and I've just had so many other distractions. I don't like the silent realm XD.
swordsaint
Smash Master
you did this called 'age' which made you smarter, making pokemon, something accessible to people of all ages, easier.
I had thought of that. So then why are the older games still harder even though I'm older now and going back to them?
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
dont worry ikill, they had 3 years of playing me to learn how to fight snake, no little amount of 'snake training' is going to make them better then they already are.
also I agree with foxy here, older games had a charm about them, they made you actually have to think.
learning by trial and error is not bad game design scoot, if you are having trouble with it you explore and try things out, but thats being drowned out now by our society of instant gratifaction, nobody knows what patience is anymore.
games that lead you by the hand arent bad on their own, but they would be better then they are if they didnt do that.
this video should help explain alot of that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM
also I agree with foxy here, older games had a charm about them, they made you actually have to think.
learning by trial and error is not bad game design scoot, if you are having trouble with it you explore and try things out, but thats being drowned out now by our society of instant gratifaction, nobody knows what patience is anymore.
games that lead you by the hand arent bad on their own, but they would be better then they are if they didnt do that.
this video should help explain alot of that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM
EverAlert
Smash Master
Yeah the whole thing seems pretty arbitrary/personal, from what I gather you're not even saying the new pokemon games are worse or anything, just that you can't enjoy the news ones as much for personal reasons. Which is totally fine.
More to the point, why the **** didn't you tell us you were replaying them?
I would have so been up for a retromon group playthrough. gotta catch em all!
edit: rofl @ luke I stomped snakes in my snake-matchup prime. I should actually get a freshener on the mu at HTC or something. Anyway me getting matchup practice and gords getting matchup practice are totally different things so ill leave it at that.
edit2: someone get lara croft guardian of light and coop with me at htc or something!!!!!!!!
More to the point, why the **** didn't you tell us you were replaying them?
I would have so been up for a retromon group playthrough. gotta catch em all!
edit: rofl @ luke I stomped snakes in my snake-matchup prime. I should actually get a freshener on the mu at HTC or something. Anyway me getting matchup practice and gords getting matchup practice are totally different things so ill leave it at that.
edit2: someone get lara croft guardian of light and coop with me at htc or something!!!!!!!!
tedeth
Smash Master
EA I'll play it with you if you buy me a copy. I'd do it myself but I'm away and stuff.
Also you owe me for NWN anyway hehehe.
Also you owe me for NWN anyway hehehe.
So, as some are aware of my finishing zelda curse...
Going through twilight princess like a madman.
Take a break, leave the wii on.
Come back to my room a while later and turn on my light.
The light explodes.
Power resets.
Wii resets.
Entire ****ing water temple.
Will I have the will to actually start again? This **** happens with me and vidyaaaaaaa tooooo muchhhhhhhhhh
Going through twilight princess like a madman.
Take a break, leave the wii on.
Come back to my room a while later and turn on my light.
The light explodes.
Power resets.
Wii resets.
Entire ****ing water temple.
Will I have the will to actually start again? This **** happens with me and vidyaaaaaaa tooooo muchhhhhhhhhh
It's nice to see that Luke understands. Also, that vid is truth.
@EA: Yeah I've just been playing the rom of red on my computer. You should totally get into it. I also wanted to play through with mew, you know that glitch thing that allows you to get him super early. Well I caught him at lvl 7 with two badges, and he's the best; not in a game breaking way though, cause he learns all these weird/cool moves for the heck of it like transform and metronome. Plus I decided to get a Paras because back then I didn't know how imba spore is in general, but in red it's like, if I'm faster, I win, like you don't even get a look in. It's hilarious. All because of the way the sleeping mechanics are, like when you wake up, you don't attack, so even in the best scenario where you wake up straight away, I’m like lol he’s struggling, SPORE. I also went for the harder beginning, starting with Charmander. It's all good, so good. You don't even know.
@EA: Yeah I've just been playing the rom of red on my computer. You should totally get into it. I also wanted to play through with mew, you know that glitch thing that allows you to get him super early. Well I caught him at lvl 7 with two badges, and he's the best; not in a game breaking way though, cause he learns all these weird/cool moves for the heck of it like transform and metronome. Plus I decided to get a Paras because back then I didn't know how imba spore is in general, but in red it's like, if I'm faster, I win, like you don't even get a look in. It's hilarious. All because of the way the sleeping mechanics are, like when you wake up, you don't attack, so even in the best scenario where you wake up straight away, I’m like lol he’s struggling, SPORE. I also went for the harder beginning, starting with Charmander. It's all good, so good. You don't even know.
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
lol the only snakes you stomped where people who didnt even play snake
you cant handle the nades son where you at
so foxy you complain about games being too easy, and then you roll through with spore?
I'm really close to 100% completing super meat boy, now thats a ****ing challenge
you cant handle the nades son where you at
so foxy you complain about games being too easy, and then you roll through with spore?
I'm really close to 100% completing super meat boy, now thats a ****ing challenge
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
I could still take you
swordsaint
Smash Master
luke, you are right but i didn't feel like that was on the same level as foxy was describing it. was wrong though so w.e
lol ea, you barely play anymore anyway.
lol ea, you barely play anymore anyway.
tedeth
Smash Master
Shaya Water temple is like a 5 min temple (except morpheal(unless you have the Zora armour like a noob)).
Enter temple.
Go forward.
Leave water.
Pull switch.
Go through door.
LJA.
LJA.
Get Water bombs.
Go through door.
Go through door.
Double LJA to the right.
Go through door. Go through door.
Double LJA to the left.
Go through door.
Blow up rock.
Go through entrance.
Kill frog thing in 5 seconds.
Get clawshot.
Go throug door.
Go through door.
Turn right.
Go through door.
Go through door.
Vine clip.
Fight morpheal.
Lose.
Repeat as necessary.
Enter temple.
Go forward.
Leave water.
Pull switch.
Go through door.
LJA.
LJA.
Get Water bombs.
Go through door.
Go through door.
Double LJA to the right.
Go through door. Go through door.
Double LJA to the left.
Go through door.
Blow up rock.
Go through entrance.
Kill frog thing in 5 seconds.
Get clawshot.
Go throug door.
Go through door.
Turn right.
Go through door.
Go through door.
Vine clip.
Fight morpheal.
Lose.
Repeat as necessary.
swordsaint
Smash Master
what the hells happening today?
89 white cross rd winmalee
noobs
noobs
But ted, there's a piece of heart in there, and I also used the chicken thing to go to hyrule to get a piece of heart by donating lots of rupees and then went back and got up to like 500 rupees instantly again. 
tedeth
Smash Master
I will be home sometime Sunday evening.
Rock climbing Monday?
Meet at some point? Tues/Wed?
Playing of 8 billion games on steam?
Rock climbing Monday?
Meet at some point? Tues/Wed?
Playing of 8 billion games on steam?
SummonerAU
Smash Lord
5 Eater of worlds fights in a row
Death count:
Zxv: 1
Summoner: 1
Shaya: 34234572234234235
Death count:
Zxv: 1
Summoner: 1
Shaya: 34234572234234235
Zxv
Smash Lord
I'm not playing Terraria with those guys anymore. They wrecked my house and destroyed my obsidian generator.
I'm not sure if I'll have the van on Monday... I'll get back to you via here tonight or your mobile tomorow depending on when I know for sure.
Also, the meet sounds fine. Who else is interested?
Ted, just letting you know that it's all good. I'll see you tomorow at the usualish time.
tedeth
Smash Master
Yeah I actually doubt it will be open.
Meet is a possibility. Will confirm it 2moro.
Meet is a possibility. Will confirm it 2moro.