Thank you for the more in-depth analysis of Pokemon Stadium 2, Zach. I, too, think Pokemon Stadium 2 should remain counter. However, I think it is potentially bannable. As someone said earlier, I suppose we will have to just find out with trial by fire. *shrugs and smiles*
It seems you were the only person I didn't get around to replying to, Steven. Sorry about that.
Originally Posted by GoldenGlove View Post
I agree in not banning D3's wall infinite, since we're already banning stages with permanent walls to check that, so there really isn't any legal stage he can infiinite on anyway. Laser-locking, I'm not sure. I've been laser-locked maybe twice in all of Brawl so far, so I'll wait and see if it becomes a bigger issue.
Well, my only argument on this was going to be that he can still infinite on Delfino for that one lighthouse transformation. However, that was a weak argument, but Paul has provided a much more powerful reason.
Personally, I'm neutral. What do the rest of you think on the matter?
As for laser-locking... it is much harder to do and easier to mess up, but still impossible to escape. I think it should be banned, but I could be persuaded either way as I don't really have a strong belief that absolutely needs to be banned until tournaments or something else says otherwise. What does everyone else, again, think?
Halberd already is a neutral stage, and the problem with Delfino isn't the stage flipping, it's the lack of a ledge on the right side.
Halbred is a neutral stage... but I changed it for reasons I'm about to explain. And I think you mean Orpheon, not Delfino, in which case I completely agree.
I agree with you on Big Blue.
Trial by fire?
[/quote]I'm going to have to go with counterpick for Delfino Plaza. It definitely favors the chaingrab and other high-knockback characters, but so much as to be unwinnable for other characters.[/quote]
Agreed.
I agree with you that Castle Siege could be a counterpick. It's only flat land 1/3 of the time, and you can stay on the platforms to avoid being chaingrabbed. Although...the platforms can be destroyed, leaving you no recourse...I dunno, this stage needs a trial by fire.
I think the largest problem with this stage is its size moreso than the chaingrab > death, despite that also being an issue. I dunno... I'm riding the fence on this one, however, I'm still slightly leaning toward ban.
Bridge of Eldin should definitely be banned.
No question about it.
Reasons For Why I Think Halbred Should Be A Counterpick
Okay, so ever since I changed Halbred to a counter there seems to be a lot of controversy, so I'm going to ask everyone to take a step back and leave their baggage at the door.
The definition of a neutral stage loosely follows the idea of a perfectly balanced stage. By that I mean a stage that provides the least amount of quirks and random variables to effect battle and allows for skill to control, mostly, the outcome of a match. A popular example of random variables are hazards and quirks the right side of Orpheon Frigate. These are counters because of these oddities.
So, now that we have defined a neutral stage as a stage that allows for each player to most effectively utilize their skill and nothing else, lets look at Halbred.
Halbred has... many hazards. Often something that is the death of neutral feasible stages, as I believe we have run into here. Allow me to go through all of these and give my opinion.
Launch - A deadly but unlikely hazard. After the first ten or so seconds of the match, the Halbred takes off leaving anyone
standing in the hanger rather than on the jet-propelled platform to be instantly killed. A small hazard, but still there. Suppose you trip or someone grabs you and holds you there? Overall, I believe this effects the outcome of Halbred's legality little.
Cannonball - Very easily avoidable. That's for sure. However, it still means
instant death if you are hit by it. Something often frowned upon by competitive Smashers. Also, despite its easily avoidable nature, it still doesn't mean your opponent can't
simply manuever you into the blast with a throw or by holding you there a stock ahead.
Laser - Okay, now. This is easily the easiest to see coming... you have a reticule on you, come on now. However, the laser only targets one person, and while it is relatively easy to tap DI out of it, it can easily rack up 30-50% and has decent knockback for the last hit. That's ridiculous. Again, nothing like a simple throw or a hold won't keep you from getting hit by this.
Arm - Finally, the arm. This is probably the hardest to notice. It sways back and forth eagerly waiting to hit someone, but it isn't that obvious, so are you going to watch the arm or your opponent? Thought so. It doesn't do too much damage but has decent knockback and still does damage, which every amount of percent counts. Not to mention it is hard to determine who it is shooting for.
I think 4 hazards, three of which can easily negatively effect the outcome of match are more than plenty to make this a counter.
