Twin_A
Smash Champion
Touche bro. Steven just said in the other thread how he would recommend items off and FS off for competitive Brawl (I'm going out on a limb and assuming he played with Davis 
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NMSC Ruleset (Open Discussion Begun) Updated April 1st
- Thread starter Kashakunaki
- Start date
GoldenGlove
Smash Ace
Yeah. One of the main problems with them is their rate of appearance. It's kind of ridiculous when, in the course of a normal 4-stock match, with smash balls on the LOWEST APPEARENCE FREQUENCY, someone can get two or three of their kills via final smashes.
Kashakunaki
Smash Master
Steven beat me to it. I was actually going to talk about that.
I personally was pro Final Smash until Steven and I experimented with them and the rest of the game.
We turned only Final smashes on on the lowest frequency (pretty positive that's where it was) and at least three Final Smashes would appear a match. At minimum. I think that's a horrible problem. If it was one, maybe two, per match... it would be fine. But in an average four stock match, way too many appear.
I think if it wasn't for this problem, Final Smashes would be very plausible. However, I am sad to say it New Mexico, I think Final Smashes won't see the light of day in competitive scenes.
I fully anticipate "FS Tournaments" but on a general scale they won't be accepted.
That is mine (and I believe Steven's) view point on FSes. I'll wait to hear what the rest of the community thinks, but for now I'm putting the ban stamp on FS.
I personally was pro Final Smash until Steven and I experimented with them and the rest of the game.
We turned only Final smashes on on the lowest frequency (pretty positive that's where it was) and at least three Final Smashes would appear a match. At minimum. I think that's a horrible problem. If it was one, maybe two, per match... it would be fine. But in an average four stock match, way too many appear.
I think if it wasn't for this problem, Final Smashes would be very plausible. However, I am sad to say it New Mexico, I think Final Smashes won't see the light of day in competitive scenes.
I fully anticipate "FS Tournaments" but on a general scale they won't be accepted.
That is mine (and I believe Steven's) view point on FSes. I'll wait to hear what the rest of the community thinks, but for now I'm putting the ban stamp on FS.
sync
Smash Apprentice
GASP!!! NO FINAL SMASHES?!?!
But yeah, I see how it would screw with tournament matches. But I still want to use them. A lot. Why? Because.
But yeah, I see how it would screw with tournament matches. But I still want to use them. A lot. Why? Because.
tw1n
Smash Champion
Sad to hear about the FS problem. Well we will just keep experimenting lol. But trusting both of your very open minded viewing of Brawl... looks like in NM won't have FS on in tournaments
Kashakunaki
Smash Master
Yes, you guys can see for yourselves tonight.
And on that note, TONIGHT is my Brawl invite over party thingy do. I posted in house information in another thread. IF YOU WANT TO COME JUST CONTACT ME! 554-6123. Seriously, anyone can come. My mom said just don't overflow my room... which will happen. I can fit about five in my room before it gets intense, but she doesn't really care.
Two rules, though: Eat before you come or bring food and clean up after youselves. I don't mind if you make a mess in my room... I'm used to it... it's gonna happen. But anything outside my roomp ut it back where you found it etc.
I hope to see you guys here! I'm getting tired of playing just Destry, Kendric, David, and Steven because generally Steven is the only hard person to beat.
And on that note, TONIGHT is my Brawl invite over party thingy do. I posted in house information in another thread. IF YOU WANT TO COME JUST CONTACT ME! 554-6123. Seriously, anyone can come. My mom said just don't overflow my room... which will happen. I can fit about five in my room before it gets intense, but she doesn't really care.
Two rules, though: Eat before you come or bring food and clean up after youselves. I don't mind if you make a mess in my room... I'm used to it... it's gonna happen. But anything outside my roomp ut it back where you found it etc.
I hope to see you guys here! I'm getting tired of playing just Destry, Kendric, David, and Steven because generally Steven is the only hard person to beat.
tw1n
Smash Champion
BRAWL IMPRESSION!!
First of Davis I love you. Brawl was so amazingly kick ***! Ooooohhh!
Now before I meat up with my gf for our anniversary...
Brawl =/= Melee at all!
Almost all the characters were on an even playing field!!! Its great. Oh and the reduced knockback and damage is really big in this. I love it
Sonic: My most played character for some reason. His FS = god. His killing moves = ...um well ya. Overall he's fat and hard to use but can destroy up until you want to finish someone off... Sad
Ike: Slow but huge knock back... His FS is awesome. Nice kill in the end Kyle
Link: He's cool... Huge bomb throwage.
Toon Link: Funny looking and awesome
Olimar: Broken. **** you Kash lol
Diddy Kong: Also broken. Just not as badly. It actually takes some skill to use
Dedede: Slow but powerful. Funny to watch. Paul owns with him
Ganon: Chokehold over B FTW. Slow but ownage
Wario: Funny as heck. Different... that about all I can say tho
Snake: Hard to use but sick on explosives
Mario: Pretty good. Chefman should be happy
Fox: My opinion best of the three space animals
Wolf: Close second...
Falco: ...um... its gonna take a whole new playstyle to get him going... SHL i not as good. LHDL (ledge hop double laser) is still in tho :D
Marth: Still good. His FS is broken... very broken
Yoshi: Poor guy. Just never gets a break
DK: Read Yoshi
Samus: Still awesome
ZSS: Better than sheik in my opinion
Sheik: Not as good as I was hoping
Zelda: Questionably better than sheik... No I'm not lying its true
Bowser: Owns. No questions
Thats all the time I've got. If I had more I'd go into more details. So one last thing.
Sorry to all FS lovers but there's no way we can use FSin tournaments in my honest opinion. They are broken to sin. Whoever get it wins. Thats it. Great example. Me vs Kyle at the very end. 1 vs 1 3 stock. I 2 stocked him thanks to 3 final smashes! It was funny but I kinda felt bad (ok thats pure bull lol).
Peace. --Plus9 <--- Had to lol. Ask later if you don't know.
First of Davis I love you. Brawl was so amazingly kick ***! Ooooohhh!
Now before I meat up with my gf for our anniversary...
Brawl =/= Melee at all!
Almost all the characters were on an even playing field!!! Its great. Oh and the reduced knockback and damage is really big in this. I love it
Sonic: My most played character for some reason. His FS = god. His killing moves = ...um well ya. Overall he's fat and hard to use but can destroy up until you want to finish someone off... Sad
Ike: Slow but huge knock back... His FS is awesome. Nice kill in the end Kyle
Link: He's cool... Huge bomb throwage.
Toon Link: Funny looking and awesome
Olimar: Broken. **** you Kash lol
Diddy Kong: Also broken. Just not as badly. It actually takes some skill to use
Dedede: Slow but powerful. Funny to watch. Paul owns with him
Ganon: Chokehold over B FTW. Slow but ownage
Wario: Funny as heck. Different... that about all I can say tho
Snake: Hard to use but sick on explosives
Mario: Pretty good. Chefman should be happy
Fox: My opinion best of the three space animals
Wolf: Close second...
Falco: ...um... its gonna take a whole new playstyle to get him going... SHL i not as good. LHDL (ledge hop double laser) is still in tho :D
Marth: Still good. His FS is broken... very broken
Yoshi: Poor guy. Just never gets a break
DK: Read Yoshi
Samus: Still awesome
ZSS: Better than sheik in my opinion
Sheik: Not as good as I was hoping
Zelda: Questionably better than sheik... No I'm not lying its true
Bowser: Owns. No questions
Thats all the time I've got. If I had more I'd go into more details. So one last thing.
Sorry to all FS lovers but there's no way we can use FSin tournaments in my honest opinion. They are broken to sin. Whoever get it wins. Thats it. Great example. Me vs Kyle at the very end. 1 vs 1 3 stock. I 2 stocked him thanks to 3 final smashes! It was funny but I kinda felt bad (ok thats pure bull lol).
Peace. --Plus9 <--- Had to lol. Ask later if you don't know.
Kashakunaki
Smash Master
Plus 9, haha. Mmm. I don't really have time to do a full comprehensive list of stages, characters, etc, but expect one very soon. I'm gonna see if there are any stages I haven't unlocked and then we will
GO THROUGH EACH STAGE ONE AT A TIME AND DEBATE ITS PLAYABILITY!
I don't want to see any posts with a list of the stages and their votes next to it. I want discussion here. I mean, obviously some discussion are gonna be very, very short (New Pork City), but let's not get lazy here.
Also, I think items are even less liked in this game, so can we safely say no items in Brawl tournaments?
GO THROUGH EACH STAGE ONE AT A TIME AND DEBATE ITS PLAYABILITY!
I don't want to see any posts with a list of the stages and their votes next to it. I want discussion here. I mean, obviously some discussion are gonna be very, very short (New Pork City), but let's not get lazy here.
Also, I think items are even less liked in this game, so can we safely say no items in Brawl tournaments?
tw1n
Smash Champion
Agreed with New Pork City lol. And items. they are fun and all but the assist items as well as everything else are pretty cheap sadly. but we could still look and see if there is any one item that is good to go :D
Twin_A
Smash Champion
My Brawl impressions... well you know what everyone else has already given enough so mine wont make a difference except for this:
Link: I played Link the most (dark link specifically) and he actually plays most similar to his melee counterpart (note* I didnt play ganon and bowser so I may be wrong). his bombs are stronger and can be thrown rediculously high if you hold down the throw as if it were a smash (link mains should be familiar with this concept because of his boomerang in melee). Overall I still dont think he's top tier but he is a little faster and can keep up much easier in this one
Oh and don't forget XXX (I think it was you at least, sorry), if you want the claims to Dark Link in NM Tourneys you have to beat me in a link ditto
Link: I played Link the most (dark link specifically) and he actually plays most similar to his melee counterpart (note* I didnt play ganon and bowser so I may be wrong). his bombs are stronger and can be thrown rediculously high if you hold down the throw as if it were a smash (link mains should be familiar with this concept because of his boomerang in melee). Overall I still dont think he's top tier but he is a little faster and can keep up much easier in this one
Oh and don't forget XXX (I think it was you at least, sorry), if you want the claims to Dark Link in NM Tourneys you have to beat me in a link ditto
Kashakunaki
Smash Master
If anything Marth plays like his Melee counter part, more so than Link in my opinion... anyways, let's get this show on the road.
Open Discussion For The Following Stages Begins NOW
Battlefield
Final Destination
Delfino Plaza
EDIT: If you want to throw in your two cents on stocks for teams and singles and what not, please do. I guess later I'll make a separate area in my first post for singles and teams.
Open Discussion For The Following Stages Begins NOW
Battlefield
Final Destination
Delfino Plaza
EDIT: If you want to throw in your two cents on stocks for teams and singles and what not, please do. I guess later I'll make a separate area in my first post for singles and teams.
tw1n
Smash Champion
I like those 3. Very well rounded for singles and even doubles.
Some that I wanted to throw out there:
Bridge of Eldin
Smashville
Yoshis Island (new colorful one)
Pictochat(hoping for alot of talk on this one... tough call)
Some that I wanted to throw out there:
Bridge of Eldin
Smashville
Yoshis Island (new colorful one)
Pictochat(hoping for alot of talk on this one... tough call)
Twin_A
Smash Champion
I agree with those stages mentioned by Tw1n and Kash with the exception of pictochat. Although a fun stage i think we would have to do test runs with it again trying to think of how it would work.
Kash for the banned custom stages: maybe if the stage was previously agreed on to be ok in tourney matches we could use it.
arguments for pre approved custom stages on: adds some variety and fun.
arguments against: everyone may want to make another FD or battlefield with their own twist before the tourney day and present it the day of the monthly (if we had to get a ruling together every monthly it would take too long).
Kash for the banned custom stages: maybe if the stage was previously agreed on to be ok in tourney matches we could use it.
arguments for pre approved custom stages on: adds some variety and fun.
arguments against: everyone may want to make another FD or battlefield with their own twist before the tourney day and present it the day of the monthly (if we had to get a ruling together every monthly it would take too long).
GoldenGlove
Smash Ace
FD and Battlefield should be neutral, don't think there'll be much argument there. Delfino Plaza could be either neutral or counterpick, I'm ambivalent, best to wait for some more opinions on that stage. I think Bridge of Eldin should be banned in singles. Firstly, matches take really long when each person ends up on a different side of the stage and just waits there. Secondly, Dedede's chaingrab + walk-off deaths = no go. As for doubles, it could be a pretty good counter pick stage. Smashville and Yoshi's Island are nice neutral stages.
tw1n
Smash Champion
I can see where you are coming from there. but I think it should be a doubles choice. our match there was kick *** lol.
What about:
Lylat Cruise
Skyworld
Battleship halberd
Theose 3 are fairly neutral in my opinion
Then there are those stages that will be argued over for quite some time.
Rumble Falls
Wario Ware
Castle Siege
Pokemon Stadium 2 (I think its a fair stage but still a dissapointment :'( )
What about:
Lylat Cruise
Skyworld
Battleship halberd
Theose 3 are fairly neutral in my opinion
Then there are those stages that will be argued over for quite some time.
Rumble Falls
Wario Ware
Castle Siege
Pokemon Stadium 2 (I think its a fair stage but still a dissapointment :'( )
Twin_A
Smash Champion
I think the stage pictochat would be ok for doubles but at most a counterpick for singles. Smashville, yoshis island, FD, and battlefield are all great neutral stages in my opinion.
tw1n
Smash Champion
I just saw Flatzone 2... looks like a fun stage but no way in hell thats going to be a playable stage. Waaay too many things get in the way and hit the characters. not to mention the easy back throw kill on the edges
Alphabravo
Smash Ace
Battlefield: Neutral for both 1v1 and 2v2.
Final Destination: Neutral for both 1v1 and 2v2.
Delfino Plaza: Neutral for 2v2 ONLY. However, open for counterpick for 1v1. The reason being is that the deformable terrain creates some camping situations for 1v1 at times but it is still a fair stage. However, in 2v2 camping is not really anything to worry about.
Final Destination: Neutral for both 1v1 and 2v2.
Delfino Plaza: Neutral for 2v2 ONLY. However, open for counterpick for 1v1. The reason being is that the deformable terrain creates some camping situations for 1v1 at times but it is still a fair stage. However, in 2v2 camping is not really anything to worry about.
Twin_A
Smash Champion
I agree with this based on the Mario Link match I had against Neil. We spent a good amount of the match away from each other throwing projectiles the whole time. Camping was very easy.
Kashakunaki
Smash Master
Alright, so let us narrow the discussion down to some not so obvious decisions:
Bridge of Eldin
Pictochat
Delfino Plaza
Skyworld
Castle Siege
Pokemon Stadium 2
Bridge of Eldin - a hands down ban in singles for obvious reasons. Camping and chaingrabbing. There's just no way. However, I think in doubles a valid counterpick, possibly neutral stage. What do you think about the stage's neutrality in teams?
Pictochat - Really, this is a tough one. I don't think it'll be a neutral stage, simply because too many people disagree and the morphing platforms interrupt the players. I think in singles this is a viable counter pick as well as in teams.
Delfino Plaza - I think is the most deceptively difficult one to decide on. I don't think, based on one match, you can really call camping. In all honestly it is a rather small stage... but then you have to think, it has one area with a walk off blastzone. So I think it should be a counter pick based on that, and not "camping" As for teams, I think neutral.
Skyworld - This is the one I'm most ambivalent toward. In essence it is like the bottom section of Hyrule. You bounce off of those platforms ridiculously, even if they can be destroyed, and when you knock someone off you can simply destry the edge platform making it impossibly ridiculous to recover. I think counter pick in singles, and either counter pick or ban in doubles. It is rather small.
Castle Siege - Really don't have an opinion. Haven't played on it much, but I just don't see it being neutral, but I don't care either way. Neutral or counter in teams and singles.
Pokemon Stadium 2 - Counter pick hands down, end of discussion, IMO. The transformations **** with you WAY too much.
Bridge of Eldin
Pictochat
Delfino Plaza
Skyworld
Castle Siege
Pokemon Stadium 2
Bridge of Eldin - a hands down ban in singles for obvious reasons. Camping and chaingrabbing. There's just no way. However, I think in doubles a valid counterpick, possibly neutral stage. What do you think about the stage's neutrality in teams?
Pictochat - Really, this is a tough one. I don't think it'll be a neutral stage, simply because too many people disagree and the morphing platforms interrupt the players. I think in singles this is a viable counter pick as well as in teams.
Delfino Plaza - I think is the most deceptively difficult one to decide on. I don't think, based on one match, you can really call camping. In all honestly it is a rather small stage... but then you have to think, it has one area with a walk off blastzone. So I think it should be a counter pick based on that, and not "camping" As for teams, I think neutral.
Skyworld - This is the one I'm most ambivalent toward. In essence it is like the bottom section of Hyrule. You bounce off of those platforms ridiculously, even if they can be destroyed, and when you knock someone off you can simply destry the edge platform making it impossibly ridiculous to recover. I think counter pick in singles, and either counter pick or ban in doubles. It is rather small.
Castle Siege - Really don't have an opinion. Haven't played on it much, but I just don't see it being neutral, but I don't care either way. Neutral or counter in teams and singles.
Pokemon Stadium 2 - Counter pick hands down, end of discussion, IMO. The transformations **** with you WAY too much.
Alphabravo
Smash Ace
Bridge of Eldin: Banned in 1v1. Counterpick for 2v2? In my opinion Eldin should not be a neutral stage for doubles. However, it makes a great counterpick. Again, the walk off edges make chaingrabbing with D3 broken, so no singles for this one.
Pictochat: Probably counterpick for 1v1 and 2v2. The stage occasionaly spawns some hazards and obstacles that get in the way but overall it is a decent stage for singles and doubles.
Skyworld: This is definitely a tough decision. Maybe banned for singles but open for counterpick for doubles. Sometimes players get caught underneath the stage or the platforms disappear, making recovering incredibly difficult.
Castle Siege: Banned for singles. If I remember correctly that there is actually one section of the stage that has walk off edges, again chaingrabbing. However, I think the stage should be open for counterpick for doubles.
Pokemon Stadium 2: Counterpick for both 1v1 and 2v2. However, I heard players could possibly stall the match on this stage. For example, when the stage transforms and the windmills appear a really floaty character (such as jigglypuff) could potentially stall the match by floating in the sky above the windmills.
Pictochat: Probably counterpick for 1v1 and 2v2. The stage occasionaly spawns some hazards and obstacles that get in the way but overall it is a decent stage for singles and doubles.
Skyworld: This is definitely a tough decision. Maybe banned for singles but open for counterpick for doubles. Sometimes players get caught underneath the stage or the platforms disappear, making recovering incredibly difficult.
Castle Siege: Banned for singles. If I remember correctly that there is actually one section of the stage that has walk off edges, again chaingrabbing. However, I think the stage should be open for counterpick for doubles.
Pokemon Stadium 2: Counterpick for both 1v1 and 2v2. However, I heard players could possibly stall the match on this stage. For example, when the stage transforms and the windmills appear a really floaty character (such as jigglypuff) could potentially stall the match by floating in the sky above the windmills.
Kashakunaki
Smash Master
I'll wait for a couple more opinions but this is what I've got
Bridge of Eldin
1v1 - Banned
2v2 - Couunter
Pictochat
Counter in both
Skyworld
1v1 - Banned
2v2 - Counter
Castle Siege
1v1 - Banned
2v2 - Counterpick
As for Pokemon Stadium 2, I don't think it should be a ban simply because a few characters can stall better than others for 20-30 seconds or so... I'd like to hear more opinions on this one, but I'm thinking counterpick for both singles and doubles
Bridge of Eldin
1v1 - Banned
2v2 - Couunter
Pictochat
Counter in both
Skyworld
1v1 - Banned
2v2 - Counter
Castle Siege
1v1 - Banned
2v2 - Counterpick
As for Pokemon Stadium 2, I don't think it should be a ban simply because a few characters can stall better than others for 20-30 seconds or so... I'd like to hear more opinions on this one, but I'm thinking counterpick for both singles and doubles
tw1n
Smash Champion
Ya I can pretty much agree with all those. But I don't think we should ban skyworld just yet. It needs more testing. And what about the classic stages? Are they going to transfer over the same from Melee?
sync
Smash Apprentice
I don't see why not, they didn't change them much.
tw1n
Smash Champion
Or at all lol (excluding minor graphics changes)
Kashakunaki
Smash Master
No, they totally changed them... and I don't like any of the changes. Especially on Pokemon Stadium and Great Fox. Oh well...
tw1n
Smash Champion
I guess I really didn't see the changes. So what stages are we so far happy with in terms of 1 vs 1?
Kashakunaki
Smash Master
Well, surprisingly, Mario Circuit is going to be banned... it has walk off blastzones.
Half of these stages are banned because of Dedede >.<
I updated the first post.
EDIT: NEvermind, SMashboards won't let me update it... I'll try again later.
Half of these stages are banned because of Dedede >.<
I updated the first post.
EDIT: NEvermind, SMashboards won't let me update it... I'll try again later.
tw1n
Smash Champion
Hmm... I hope you all playing tonight has helped get some more stages onto the 1 vs 1 side lol. Because from what I see there are virtually none
Kashakunaki
Smash Master
Shadow Moses = Banned from singles and I vote that Skyworld be banned from singles and doubles.
Alphabravo
Smash Ace
After playing at Kash's on Saturday I think it is safe to assume that Shadow Moses Island is going to be banned from singles. Even though I really like Shadow Moses Dedede's chaingrab is completely broken on this stage. Also, Skyworld should be banned from both singles and doubles. We played numerous matches on it and about 90% of the deaths that occured were a result of either getting caught underneath the stage or gimped recoveries.
tw1n
Smash Champion
Sad because it looks so good from a distance lol. But understandable. What about Luigis mansion?
Twin_A
Smash Champion
I personally like luigis mansion as a counterpick stage at best. 2v2 I think it works out pretty well. Its a pretty well sized and none of the stage changes are drastic.
Alphabravo
Smash Ace
Luigi's Mansion is definitely not banned from singles and doubles.
1v1= counterpick
2v2= neutral
1v1= counterpick
2v2= neutral
Twin_A
Smash Champion
What about some of the other stages such as the melee stages that made it through? Do you think we should keep with what was allowed in melee and ban what was previously banned as well?
tw1n
Smash Champion
Why is everything allowed in singles only a counterpick!!! There are only 2 random neutral stages I've seen mentioned. FD and Battlefield. We need more than that
ZMan
Smash Master
Yeah i think the other neutral stages are Yoshi Island (Brawl), Lylat Cruise, Halberd, Frigate Orpheon, Smashville, and Poke Stadium 1
tw1n
Smash Champion
Yay lol. More stages :D God I want to play Brawl right now
ZMan
Smash Master
Twin_A
Smash Champion
yeah brawl is too fun haha. the mindgames that are going to be involved in competitive play are going to be intense. My brother showed me a blog on wifiwars were they pointed that out. Think about it, in melee you could just attack and get out of there before they could counter attack (dang fox's). You can't do that in Brawl tho. You have to plan your attack, their attack, your counter attack to their attack, what area you control should you have to run, etc. In my opinion it seems more like chess haha. A lot more thinking has to go in with every decision you make.