NMSC Ruleset (Open Discussion Begun) Updated April 1st

[spiritdragon]

Do you guys have an Olimar or Zelda player? They can super camp in Green Hill and Olimar's grabs go up slopes making him like almost invincible. I probably won't have too much of an impact but test these things out. I orignally thought of Corneria as counterpick, but taking infinites into the equation, I can actually see it being banned now, good call on that.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Yea...we'll test 'em out in a week or so Ferdi. Whenever Davis has his smashfest. Thanks for the info on Green Hill Zone.

Sounds like'a fun Davis. Keep us updated on the STD(Smash Till Dawn, hehe).

 

[Kashakunaki]

Ha. Interesting new avatar, Erich.

I play Olimar and plan on picking up Zelda, lol. Fancy that.

Anyways, we'll test it out next weekend. I'll definitely have one then unless something else comes up.

 

[Sinz]

I already play Zelda so don't worry. I play Olimar too.

 

[ZMan]

I'm starting to pick up Zelda and all my friends play Olimar as a secondary. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Wow...ok. Well, I DO NOT play Zelda OR Olimar, and I'm not planning on picking up either of them. HA!

Yes Davis, I am now the owl, representative of wisdom. *Solemnly presses hands together and bows head*

 

[Kashakunaki]

'Cept that owl seems more representative of scary and ugly.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Yea...I'm gonna have to do something about that.

 

[ZMan]

Hey Erich you should change your avatar to Olcadan. He has the head of an owl, but the intelligence of a human!

So is there any other stages up for debate for singles?

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Hmmm...yea, or I could get a Sphinx!! I'll come up with something cool, don't worry gents...maybe I'll get my photoshopped animal, titled the REAL hunter gatherer. You all would get a kick out of that. Or maybe just a lion....hmmmm.............

 

[Sinz]

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Wow...that is one scary looking cat. QWAAAAA?!? It suddenly shifts to an owl?!? That cat...man, I thought cats were supposed to be innocent!!

 

[Kashakunaki]

Perhaps he is piercing into your soul, Erich.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Perhaps...perhaps.

*Bump* Wow, this thread should really not die. If it does, you should put the rule set in another thread somewhere Davis. Anyways, there hasn't been too much posting in here as of late. Whatever though. I'm just involved with a couple idiots in the official stage legality discussion. Some of them are dumb, some of them aren't. All in all, it's rather frustrating. I think I'm gonna have to start showing my wise self to them. Their reasoning is somewhat ridiculous. It's time to introduce them to the word infallible.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Alright, so some discussion has sparked from Supercon. A few people seem to think that Norfair should be banned. I disagree.

The only problem with the stage is the hazard, am I right? It doesn't spark camping and it has no weird glitches about it, so let's take apart and analyze the hazards one by one.

Pillar of Fire: So a pillar of fire comes from the back of the stage and hits the front. Not only does this rarely happen, but it is hardly different from the laser on Halbred. You can see where it is going to hit, you can dodge it decently easily, and if not you can simply shield it, and it doesn't have ridiculous knockback.

Tidal Wave of Lava: Ok, come on now. There are so many ****ing ways to dodge this and it is so predictable it isn't even funny. You can sidestep, airdodge, shield, grab the ledge, grabe the ledge and roll, grab the ledge and stand up, grab the ledge and jump, jump over the wave, or go in the protective dome provided for you. Not to mention there are SIX ledges you can choose to grab. If you get hit by this you either screwed up, weren't paying attention, or are simply ********.

Wall of Lava: Easily avoidable and rarely kills. It doesn't last long, it is slow, and it only minimizes the playing field. I don't see what the issue with this is. Not to mention it makes for some sick combos sometimes.

Rising Lava: If you think this is the reason this stage should be banned, let's ban Brinstar while we are at it. Seriously, it is no different and no more hazardous.

 

[Sliraobe God]

*BUMP* this thread can't die. even though i haven't contributed to it yet, it's a great thread and I've been keeping up with it since birth.
everett the second I saw that cat I burst out laughing for a whole minute.
it's better than the "wtf" cat and the cat that flips you off. if you haven't seen those common internet pics, google it.

As for erich's avatar, I don't know what to say except for that I don't care for owls anymore. I haven't seen a single owl in the recent years of horror movies with the cliche full moon midnight in the forest.

I really can't say much about stages because this list is amazing. I'll come back and debate it later, but I agree with Zack that now we need to worry about team stages now. Doubles are growing in importance to singles now, especially with the exceptional changes for banned stages.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Thank you, Neil. I really need to update it. I know I promised I would awhile ago. I'll get on it when I can.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Well, if you say so.

*Bump*

You know, this thread won't have too much more relevance in a little while, because the *official* rule set on stages is currently being undergone in the stage discussion. When that's done, the actual list will be set up. Which reminds me...can you guys give me some solid, and I mean SOLID, reasons for banning Rumble Falls? And when you're done with that:

Reasons to ban Onett.

Your opinions(with LOTS of facts involved) on Green Greens.

Your opinions(ditto) on why Summit is banned. Again, particularly good reasons on this one. Not just because it's a weird stage or it screws with game mechanics, that is not enough for me. WHY?!?

Give me some really good reasons on why SMI is banned. Seriously. Not lame either, like because it sucks and because of infinites, because that's not enough anymore.

OK...those few stages should do it. I need some more feedback from other people, so my fellow NM'ers seemed like a good place to go for help. If you can, play each other on these stages, and test out everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. Then tell me some good, persuasive reasons on all this stuff. Again, you may want to replay on some of these stages before you answer me. I had something else to say, and I do not remember what it was anymore. Oh well...it was only vaguely important, heh.

Thanks guys, hear from you soon. =D

 

[Kashakunaki]

I like how you didn't give me any feedback on Norfair, yet are asking for feed back on those stages. Fair enough.

Well, if you don't think camping and infinites are good reasons to ban a stage, then there isn't a reason I should even TRY to convince you of my opinion on any of those.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

I would probably keep Norfair as a CP, simply because the only reason it would be banned is because of the level of annoyance. That's not a good reason to ban ANYTHING though.

And yea, I see your point Davis. It's tough arguing about this stuff in the official stage legality discussion though, so I'm trying to gather as much information as I can on all of this stuff. That way I have more arguments to put out the noobish ones and get something productive done. So far it's going very well, actually.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Ah, yeah. I decided to avoid that place like the plague because of the amount of ignorance bubbling from it, but I suppose I could simply go there.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Meh, don't bother. It's a whole lot of work my friend. I'll do my best to take care of it. I mostly listen to the crowd, but if the crowd starts to become idiotic, then I gots to lay the smackdown and show them the idiocy of their arguments. Then we agree as a majority to certain stages. For the most part though, there's some pretty intelligent people in there, though many of them are a little bit biased towards their favorite stages, heh...

 

[Sliraobe God]

Deterrmining a Stage's Legality

What exactly constitutes the in-game differences between a neutral stage, a counter-pick stage, and a banned stage? For our purposes, we'll have much different stage criterion than MLG or smashboards discussion, so that's my question.

For example, we were just on the topic of Norfair. It has a large number of "annoyances", but if this "annonyances" rarely do substantial harm and are easily avoidable by both players, then why should this stage be a counter-pick?
Even though Norfair looks and sounds crappy, hell I'd be fine with Norfair being a neutral stage. From my experiences with Norfair, it fairly often correctly discriminates the better and the worse player.

Disclaimer: I know for a fact though that stages with such "annoyances" cannot be neutral. That's why we recently moved Halberd to counterpick etc.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Uhh, yea. I was about to call you an idiot until I read your disclaimer. A neutral stage is a stage to choose from random, meaning it has to be the most normal stage possible, at least in 1v1. No hazards, no movement, no nothing. Just relatively flat.

 

[spiritdragon]

Uhh, yea. I was about to call you an idiot until I read your disclaimer. A neutral stage is a stage to choose from random, meaning it has to be the most normal stage possible, at least in 1v1. No hazards, no movement, no nothing. Just relatively flat.

So why is smashville neutral since it has a moving stage? Why is Lylat neutral since it tilts? And why the hell is Yoshi's Story neutral considering it has moving ghosts, platforms, and shy guys?

Norfair is a camp fest not a hazard issue. Like Green Hill Zone.

Ferdi edit: Why is it still HalBRED?

 

[DuskMarthWater]

A moving stage? Ya know, that looks more like a moving platform to me, but that's just me. Ghosts? Platform. Shy-guys? Does that even deserve an answer? Not part of the stage, just a background effect that does nothing. And Lylat is in the neutral area right now because a tilt still means relatively flat. It's still being debated on whether or not to be neutral or CP. Not right now though.

 

[spiritdragon]

A moving stage? Ya know, that looks more like a moving platform to me, but that's just me. Ghosts? Platform. Shy-guys? Does that even deserve an answer? Not part of the stage, just a background effect that does nothing. And Lylat is in the neutral area right now because a tilt still means relatively flat. It's still being debated on whether or not to be neutral or CP. Not right now though.

Uhh, yea. I was about to call you an idiot until I read your disclaimer. A neutral stage is a stage to choose from random, meaning it has to be the most normal stage possible, at least in 1v1. No hazards, no movement, no nothing. Just relatively flat.

Ghost drags you down if you're on it. Saves you sometime cause it just pops up. Shy guys block projectiles and screws with Ness Recovery. Moving platform makes for moving items(Snake Dsmash/C4, ZSS parts, Wario bike, ROB's gyro, anything droppable). Lylat's tilts mess projectiles and SOME recoveries.

 

[Sliraobe God]

Ferdi are you defending me?!?! lol. By the way I already pmed you about this but add me on your brawl roster even though you don't play brawl (i'm so wonley)

I'm going to re-ask and clarify my question and hope I get a definite, nonrefutable answer this time.
For New Mexico's Ruleset Discussion purposes, what is our criteria for discriminating between a neutral, a counterpick, and a banned stage? Remember, our criteria is different than smashboards' general stage discussion and/or MLG stage criteria.

disclaimers are fun.

Edit: it's halBRED because NiN10Doh doesn't know how to spell a little animal with wings and feathers that can fly...

 

[spiritdragon]

Ferdi are you defending me?!?! lol. By the way I already pmed you about this but add me on your brawl roster even though you don't play brawl (i'm so wonley)

I'm going to re-ask and clarify my question and hope I get a definite, nonrefutable answer this time.
For New Mexico's Ruleset Discussion purposes, what is our criteria for discriminating between a neutral, a counterpick, and a banned stage? Remember, our criteria is different than smashboards' general stage discussion and/or MLG stage criteria.

disclaimers are fun.

Edit: it's halBRED because NiN10Doh doesn't know how to spell a little animal with wings and feathers that can fly...

........Flaco......?

Anyways, I'm not sure if I'm defending you since really I just went up to Erich's post. And if you PMed me I didn't get it for some reason, if not then w/e. I'll add people to my roster i guess.

 

[Kashakunaki]

The point of a neutral stage is one that effects actual game play little or none at all.

Do I have to say more? Please say I don't.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Well Ferdi...those are the most neutral stages in the game right now, I'd say, wouldn't you? What other stages qualify as neutral by these standards?

And why exactly are we having different ways of planning stages then the rest of Smashboards? Doesn't make much sense to me. Sounds kind of like Evo's rules. Hmmm...

 

[Sinz]

Evo sucks though.

Spoiler

I guess NM sucks too

 

[spiritdragon]

I was the one who argued to Colorado that we should only play Battlefield and FD. I gave up since apparently more people want to play gay stages and really, my Snake doesn't care. I prefer doubles anyway. The only neutral stage IMO is the practice stage online. Hell, a custom made stage is probably the best but I don't think we can edit the blast zone for up and side KOs.

 

[Kashakunaki]

You seriously believe that Battlefield is not neutral? That's insane.

Apparently you didn't think FD in Melee was neutral either.

 

[spiritdragon]

You seriously believe that Battlefield is not neutral? That's insane.

Apparently you didn't think FD in Melee was neutral either.

Is.......is it opposite day?

 

[Sinz]

I was the one who argued to Colorado that we should only play Battlefield and FD. I gave up since apparently more people want to play gay stages and really, my Snake doesn't care. I prefer doubles anyway. The only neutral stage IMO is the practice stage online. Hell, a custom made stage is probably the best but I don't think we can edit the blast zone for up and side KOs.

I don't get it either.

 

[Kashakunaki]

The only neutral stage IMO is the practice stage online

There you have it.

 

[spiritdragon]

That's fair, but how did you get to the conclusion that I didn't think melee FD was neutral?

 

[Kashakunaki]

I don't seriously think that.

Battlefield in Brawl is like Final Destination in Melee. I'm just surprised that, in MY opinion, you find the most neutral stage... well... not neutral.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Guys...something I think we need to seriously understand, is that Brawl is nowhere near the same as Melee. The definitions of neutral have been altered a bit from Melee. The most neutral stages available to us in Melee included FD, Battlefield, Dream Land 64, Yoshi's Story, and FoD, and PS1. In Brawl, the only stage that is truly like those in Melee is Battlefield. FD has the annoying ledges(kind of like Battlefield Melee, I guess), and Smashville has a moving platform. Other than that though, Smashville's pretty neutral. Anyways, you see what I'm saying? Neutral is a changing definition with the times.