• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Nicknyte talks about Luigi: The Thread - Luigi Discussion

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
I too think Falcon beats Luigi. I am undecided how badly, though. Mostly because I play neither character, and partially because whenever I learn a new character or MU I usually grip onto the gayest thing about whoever I'm playing and never let go!

I think the best thing Luigi has going for him (punishment doesn't count) is what you said; approaching him directly is actually fairly tricky without something like Falco's laser, Zelda memorabilia, or sewing equipment. It's hard for Falcon to directly do anything to Luigi without Luigi doing some evasive sliding gimmick, crouching under something, or having a bair out (or similar big hitbox). Luigi's little turtle game, crouching wavedash under stomps and similar, crouch cancel on weak moves, zoning aerials, and spontaneous ground poking seems like it could be really good against him, but this is one of those MUs where both characters kind of stalemate each other to a certain degree. I only think Falcon wins because his combos are a bit gayer, he has more gimping potential (you know he does!), his pressure's a bit safer on block, and he's better at fishing for mistakes (especially if they camp platforms a bit and use a lot of well-spaced double jumps; I think SS's baiting style is really good in this one).

Speaking of shield pressure, Falcon gets a pretty big buff to heavy-move oriented play because his stomp becomes safe on block. Luigi's traction once again bites him. That's actually worth a lot, I think, because it's a spammable combo starter versus a fairly frail character (vs Falcon, anyway), that almost always works on hit, that beats CC, only puts you at -3 or something on block (which is nothing if you just aim it low or behind), and Luigi's low traction allows it to function with or without the gentleman to follow (for silly mixups). That's really good. And Luigi still faces adversity engaging him on platforms, where he's fairly safe, and can retreat to after he attempts a bait. Gay.

So, yeah, that's my take on it. They both can hurt each other pretty badly but can similarly troll each other. With all this I'm not sure if I think Douglas takes Luigi against a wall with respect, or if he gets a lil' kinky because he knows the slippery plumber is easy. It's complicated. Race-car drivers should never be seriously fighting clowns.

But yeah I think at some point in 2009 Falcon got on the nairplane with Fox and never got off. There's a whole game to him that you can only see if you watch like one, maybe two players in the entire world. Like, you might get a glimpse of alternative neutral game options here and a weird style that branches off from horizontal control effectively, but I think FFers in recent years have shifted from abusing their overall stage mobility versus characters with less well-rounded mobility and just decided to excel at the horizontal plane because they figured it would be better for winning. I think it's worked out vs most of the top tiers but I feel trends like this cause whole styles and avenues of gameplay innovation to go unnoticed... and I think Falcon could be a lot better vs low tiers.

Oh wells. We can't do everything, right?


.
 

Oracle

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
3,471
Location
Dallas, TX
What do i do against falco's bair and lasers? At the tournament yesterday i did pretty good recovery wise vs. everyone but falco, who would just bair me a million times
 

Eddy 007

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
83
Location
Tijuana, Baja California
Try to not get hit by the lasers but stay away from something like double jump dair; save your jump and probably a airdoge near is your best option (try to mix up so you dont get predictable). If the falco is just doing bair, you get more chances to get a misfire ;D .
^^^^^
Someone help me with the recovery advice, i cant even do a rising tornado. ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

Some advice in general i gave in general against falco:
"Yeah we should play, i want to play everyone XD. Last Genesis i couldn't play Dashizwhiz :[
Regarding your question,you need to be very patient, its hard to try but dont get frustraded. You will need to make the most of the combo opportunnites or during the combo itself. So, has already you may now, the important thing to do is landing combo starters (d-smash, a grab, an aerial, tornado, taunt, etc) and to edgeguard effectively (with f-tilt, aerial, d-tilt, etc).

To get around a falco that spams alot of lasers I try to stay very close to them, using a lot of wavelanding in the platform, wavedash out of the shield, using wavedash with f-tilt, rolling and powershield (practice the full lenght of the wavedash and your tech skill in general).

Try to get the lead and maybe he will spam less, practice chaingrabbing and react to your opponent's DI.
In the video below, you can watch some of the stuff i say, especially the last match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyCU4aAqeFg

I hope this information helps you, try to also watch Ka Master vs Blunted Object."


Hope that helps. :]
 

King Funk

Int. Croc. Alligator
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
2,972
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
Hey guys. I picked up Luigi months ago because I absolutely hate Ice Climbers and I wanted to find some fun and gimmicky character I could use for that matchup.

We had a low tier tourney in Denmark last weekend, of which the videos are already uploaded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ5ZQsabrgk -> LF Tomber (Pikachu) vs King Funk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn_2zKxMW3Y -> GF1 Eagle (Young Link) vs King Funk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhFUrV_z3rA -> GF2 same

I'd appreciate any kind of critique on those matches. =D
 

Thoraxe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
154
Location
texas. yeeha
Nairs are weegy's best friend, super broken combo starter/floaty killer makes it way better than his uair. Don't go spamming it or anything, but if you can land it at low-mid percents, its a guaranteed combo waiting to happen. uairs have their purposes too though, primarily fending for yourself off stage if fox drops in for a shine, and following through super vertical combos. weegy's Nair is his second best aerial imo, just behind Dair.
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
What in the world does Dair do that is so amazing <____<
Bair and Fair are good spacing tools at least, Uair is great for getting out of combos because it hits above you, but Dair is just a mediocre finisher (even though it's his strongest one)
 

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,562
Location
Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
Uair is his best comboing aerial (not combo starter, but move to use in the middle of combos), gets you out of combos as mentioned, is EXTREMELY good for sharking floaty characters, and surprisingly useful vs. Sheik.

Dair is his best way to call Fox's approaches at both low and high percents (not at mid percents I mean), and he needs a combo finisher of some sort. Also great for edgeguarding because the hitbox goes so far below.

Bair is like the longest ranged thing ever.

My list would be something like

Bair
Uair
Fair
Dair (fair and dair are switched if it's vs. Spacies)
Nair

in terms of how often I use the moves

Nair is super broken when it hits, but the times when it hits are almost always because they messed up. That's why I wouldn't rank it higher. I guess it's okay OOS vs. spacies if at mid to high percents

The main advantage it offers in comboing is occasionally letting you set up sweetspot up Bs on platforms imo
 

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,562
Location
Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
Luigi's dair beats pretty much everything that it hits head-on, except maybe Marth's moves or Jiggs' uair. Just look at the htiboxes

The trouble is usually that if you're in the air, you can't always time it to beat their move because they can bait you and stuff...
 

pingding

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
140
Location
Marksville, Louisiana
so nairs are really good then just dont use only nairs right

also i am having a hard time fighting marth i dont know how to approach him what should i do
 

Thoraxe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
154
Location
texas. yeeha
the only way i'll approach marth is wd in and out of his tip range with shield up, if the marth is dumb he'll throw out one of his punishable moves and you can WD grab him and uthrow or dthrow depending on if he's at low or high percent. approaching marth is a *****.
 

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,562
Location
Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
^The only moves that you can punish on block with WD -> grab are like... fsmash/ftilt. So saying that's all you do in that matchup doesn't seem like a good idea.

But anyway...

Waveshield and WD upward angled ftilt are staples

Also try to move in during his dtilt or aerial landing lag if he spams those too predictably

If he's heavy on DD instead try to overshoot to catch him when he runs back

If he uses a lot of CC and shield you probably have to approach with grab sometimes.

Uh... that's all I got. Marth wins this matchup, but most Marth players mess up enough so that it's winnable for you
 

Thoraxe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
154
Location
texas. yeeha
WD back and throw him a fireball or two. Make him approach you and punish his lag if he ends up approaching with aerials or anything else really. Marth doesn't really have great approaches besides retreating fairs, so be aware of those and try to retreat some more and keep on feeding him fireballs, for no other reason then to irk him :awesome:. The best way to play against marth is to be more patient than he is and stay away from his dd grabs. Try not to put yourself on the ledge unless your edge guarding his ***, because Marth will punish you off stage every time. Feel free to criticize me now Winston ;)
 

Thoraxe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
154
Location
texas. yeeha
sh fireballs. don't throw any low ones if he's in striking distance, there's like 50 frames of fireball lag to punish, so only use it to annoy him, because they aren't really practical. space him out so he gets tired of it, that's the beauty of having a projectile against marth, regardless of how bad the projectile is.
 

Thoraxe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
154
Location
texas. yeeha
Grind them to 50%, b-throw, WD FF edge grab, ledgehop bair, regrab edge, force them to recover onstage, Up+B them.
unfortunately, you overestimate Luigi's B-throw by a long shot, this isn't peaches F-throw and will be di'd way up above ledge if they even go off stage. you got the ledgehop bair part right, but the only high tier character weegy can punish for on stage recovery with his shoryuken is sheik and marth if the marth is bad. i'm sure i'm not alone when i say i up-throw/d-throw 90 times more than i b-throw. but yeah occasionally if i have someone grabbed on the edge of the stage, i'll give em a good ol' b-throw. its all about CG peach with F-throw WD 2 or 3 times at 0 percent though, that's where it's at.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
unfortunately, you overestimate Luigi's B-throw by a long shot, this isn't peaches F-throw and will be di'd way up above ledge if they even go off stage. you got the ledgehop bair part right, but the only high tier character weegy can punish for on stage recovery with his shoryuken is sheik and marth if the marth is bad. i'm sure i'm not alone when i say i up-throw/d-throw 90 times more than i b-throw. but yeah occasionally if i have someone grabbed on the edge of the stage, i'll give em a good ol' b-throw. its all about CG peach with F-throw WD 2 or 3 times at 0 percent though, that's where it's at.
I was specifically referring to Marth with that post. So most of your criticisms, while accurate in a vacuum, are misplaced.
 

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,562
Location
Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
dthrow wd dair/fair isnt going to combo Marth....

I generally just assume they won't DI the dthrow and do dthrow -> usmash at low percent, dthrow -> uair at mid, and dthrow -> fair/dair at higher

if they DI the dthrow then wd ftilt should work? Idk cause nobody DIs the throw consistently, and I fthrow ftilt a lot also to confuse them
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Man, then I misinterpreted the post explaining the previous post ... so bad @_@
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
It's okay. I wasn't being particularly serious with that post anyway. Everyone else was posting novelty Luigi strategies vs. Marth ("Get in a pressure with jabs!") so I wanted to add my nonsensical gimmicks too. But then people mistook it for a real strategy, and then misinterpreted things so it became more comical.

In the end, all is good in the world.

:)
 

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,562
Location
Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
Hmm, it's alright. The focus on shielding is good, but he makes it sound way better than it actually is (implying that Marth hitting your shield lets you grab him). Him fsmashing your shield is a bonus, but should rarely happen (and when it does its often an unpunishable tipper). The real reason you'd want to shield a lot is to condition him into swinging predictably and then punish it, I guess. The issue with this is, unlike what he said in his guide, Marth's grabs are pretty lethal to Luigi. (Uthrow).

He does mention ftilt later but I think it deserves at least as much emphasis as shielding.

Throw Marth ASAP instead of pummeling is good.

Dthrow usmash at 0 is good.

dthrow uair or uthrow uair at mid percents is a lot better than just going for the fair immediately.

Everything else looks good.
 
Top Bottom