Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[HyperSomari64]

it's like Wario Woods.

The game obviously takes place where what the title says, but characters like Toad or Birdo (in the NES version) appear.

Is it a Mario game or a Wario game?

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve been playing around with something that’s kind of interesting but likely isn’t entirely accurate. I don’t know how many here have ever tried using Chat GPT but I’ve been asking it questions like ranking a character’s likelihood for Smash and comparing the likelihoods of certain characters and brainstorming ideas of what it thinks they could offer. I know the AI often hallucinates answers but it’s still pretty interesting to read what it answers. It usually writes out a pretty detailed response that actually makes sense. It’s obviously not quite the same as talking with actual people in things like the rate their chances thread but it’s a fun distraction. I also ask it questions like “who would win in a battle between these two characters?”. Fun to read even if it’s ultimately meaningless.

 

[Gorgonzales]

It's interesting playing the recent Mario & Luigi game, because Kamek and generic Magikoopas exist together in that game, except now the Magikoopas have a very plain yellow/orange colour.

They've really committed to making Kamek his own thing and I'm here for it

Wow, you're right.

Generic Magikoopas have been blue for so long that I almost wish that the tell for "generic Magikoopa" was an all-blue robe while Kamek retains the white trim on his hat and sleeves, but I'm not entirely opposed to this new direction either. They look good in Orange.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don’t think we really need to strictly put characters in a box of “Mario character” or their own thing. You can be both at the same time. To me, if a character regularly appears in every spinoff game like Mario Kart and Mario Party, they’re a Mario character. That doesn’t mean they can’t also be their own thing in addition to that.

But even in their Mario Kart , they kinda make a big deal about Yoshi and DK being their own thing most of the time.

But yeah, both are probably Mario characters under a broader umbrella term. However, representing them with a Mushroom wouldn't seem right.

 

[fogbadge]

how would you classify Waluigi?

a pipe cleaner man

 

[Louie G.]

I don’t think we really need to strictly put characters in a box of “Mario character” or their own thing. You can be both at the same time.

I was just referring to the way Smash classifies them. Like yeah obviously characters like Yoshi or Wario are both ambassadors for their own series and for the greater Marioverse. But they are treated as individual series representatives all the same, they don’t get cross-series emblems and victory themes.

Kamek would have the mushroom, and Waluigi would too. We already have precedent for Mario Kart, Party, Sports, RPG etc being handled under this umbrella so it would hardly be much of a problem. It’s only different when we’re talking about a series where the protagonist is not Mario. I’m sure Kamek would come with a number of references to Yoshi’s Island, anyway. This arbitrary label doesn’t really conflict with that.

 

[Master_Scorpion]

What 1st party franchise do you think is most likely to get 2 new characters in the next Smash and who do you think those characters would be?

I think it’d be Super Mario with Waluigi and King Boo

 

[Gengar84]

What 1st party franchise do you think is most likely to get 2 new characters in the next Smash and who do you think those characters would be?

I think it’d be Super Mario with Waluigi and King Boo

Based on how many we already have, logic would say either Mario or Pokemon. I’m going the other way and say Zelda since it’s been so long since weve had a unique newcomer that I feel we’re overdue. Breath of the Wild also really helped elevate the series past where it already was. If I was going to predict two characters, I’d say Impa and Urbosa.

 

[Perkilator]

Wow, you're right.

Generic Magikoopas have been blue for so long that I almost wish that the tell for "generic Magikoopa" was an all-blue robe while Kamek retains the white trim on his hat and sleeves, but I'm not entirely opposed to this new direction either. They look good in Orange.

I think gray would also work for generic Magikoopas.

 

[SPEN18]

IDK how people go at Incineroar (or anyone) for being a wasted slot when Plant is right there.

Because I disagreed with Plant, too?
Though I am a little burnt out from the previous discussion to go fully into the case of Plant atm lol.
And I probably also wouldn't use the "wasted slots" terminology, personally, but I digress.

 

[Louie G.]

What 1st party franchise do you think is most likely to get 2 new characters in the next Smash and who do you think those characters would be?

Splatoon. In the last decade it’s become one of Nintendo’s cornerstone IP and Smash has a lot of catching up to do to bring it up to speed since Ultimate could only really focus on Splatoon 1 to any meaningful degree. It helps that the series is combat oriented too, so moveset potential is plentiful.

I think the scenario hinges a little bit on how Octoling is handled. If they are a clone or semiclone as I anticipate them to be, I feel that a second unique character is still on the table. And even within the confines of this unique newcomer, it’s plausible that a Callie / Marie or Pearl / Marina duo are counted as two characters like Pyra / Mythra anyway. So I think there are a few ways this could go down and I think it’s fairly likely in either capacity. Depending on how you want to read into it, this could even be three new Splatoon characters.

I mean, aside from Mario. We almost always get two Mario characters, or at least characters from the Mario universe, so it would be a boring answer.

 

[Master_Scorpion]

Based on how many we already have, logic would say either Mario or Pokemon. I’m going the other way and say Zelda since it’s been so long since weve had a unique newcomer that I feel we’re overdue. Breath of the Wild also really helped elevate the series past where it already was. If I was going to predict two characters, I’d say Impa and Urbosa.

My list for getting 2 reps would go Mario, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Sonic (even though he’s 3rd party), then Zelda.

I still think it’s pretty high up there to get 2. I would go with Impa and Rauru if I had to guess

Splatoon. In the last decade it’s become one of Nintendo’s cornerstone IP and Smash has a lot of catching up to do to bring it up to speed since Ultimate could only really focus on Splatoon 1 to any meaningful degree. It helps that the series is combat oriented too, so moveset potential is plentiful.

I think the scenario hinges a little bit on how Octoling is handled. If they are a clone or semiclone as I anticipate them to be, I feel that a second unique character is still on the table. And even within the confines of this unique newcomer, it’s plausible that a Callie / Marie or Pearl / Marina duo are counted as two characters like Pyra / Mythra anyway. So I think there are a few ways this could go down and I think it’s fairly likely in either capacity. Depending on how you want to read into it, this could even be three new Splatoon characters.

I mean, aside from Mario. We almost always get two Mario characters, or at least characters from the Mario universe, so it would be a boring answer.

I would say they have good odds. If I had to choose 2 reps it’d be Octoling and DJ Octavio

 

[Oracle Link]

Here that picture took a while so i wanna brag:

Heres the last version:

 

[Noipoi]

What 1st party franchise do you think is most likely to get 2 new characters in the next Smash and who do you think those characters would be?

I think it’d be Super Mario with Waluigi and King Boo

Mario, or Splatoon.

I was also thinking maybe Pokemon, because by the time the next Smash drops we’ll have been through Gen 8, Gen 9, and we’ll be at the very beginning of Gen 10, so there’d be a lot to catch up on. But they could just make up for lost time with a lot of new Pokeball summons, unless they wanna toss in an echo or something.

 

[Oracle Link]

What 1st party franchise do you think is most likely to get 2 new characters in the next Smash and who do you think those characters would be?

I think it’d be Super Mario with Waluigi and King Boo

I definitly think Mario, Splatoon and Animal Crossing are gonna get 1 Character!
Mario gets toad, Splatoon gets octoling and ac gets tom nook!

However i hope zelda gets 3 (Midna, impa and skull kid) and kirby gets 2 (magolor and BWD)

so if i guess kirby is most likely to get 2 newcomers!

 

[Gengar84]

I definitly think Mario, Splatoon and Animal Crossing are gonna get 1 Character!
Mario gets toad, Splatoon gets octoling and ac gets tom nook!

However i hope zelda gets 3 (Midna, impa and skull kid) and kirby gets 2 (magolor and BWD)

so if i guess kirby is most likely to get 2 newcomers!

Bandana Dee is the obvious Kirby newcomer but who would be the next? Purely off bias, I want Bugzzy but I don’t see him having much a chance. More realistically, I think Fecto Elfilis is really unique looking and cool. Marx and Magolor have the more standard Kirby shaped body which doesn’t stand out quite as much though they’d still both be cool.

 

[Pupp135]

So, what do you think of Kamek? Do you like the character? Do you think the character has evolved over time? What do you think of his role in the Mario and Yoshi franchises?

Do you think he'd be a good Smash addition? How do you think he would work? What would have to happen for him to be included?

I’m indifferent to Kamek as a character, but I’d say his role in the Mario series is overlooked. He is a recurring antagonist, and he appears in the movie from last year, plays the host in the Switch era Mario Party games, and he finally became playable in a console Mario Kart game last year. He may not be as one of the most essential characters, he still plays a notable role in the series.

I think that Kamek would be an interesting addition given that we don’t really have that many magic based fighters. In terms of playstyle, he’d probably be a zoner and possibly inflict some status ailments. Given that Super Mario has multiple candidates who I could imagine joining the roster, I think the main motivators would either be through a large number of requests or Kamek’s moveset potential striking the developer’s interest more than other candidates like Toad(ette) and Pauline.

What 1st party franchise do you think is most likely to get 2 new characters in the next Smash and who do you think those characters would be?

I’m leaning towards the Super Mario and Splatoon franchises at the moment given that Super Mario tends to get new fighters barring Brawl (even then, we still got Diddy and Wario), and in the case of Splatoon, I think Octoling will be an echo, and a different fighter will be added for the unique position.

For these franchises, my current hunch is Waluigi for the Super Mario franchise given thar he‘s one of the most requested fighters. For the second fighter, I could see Toad(ette), Pauline, or Kamek depending on where the developers’ interest lie.

In addition to Octoling, I’m leaning towards a pop idol duo joining, but I can see DJ Octavio joining instead.

 

[BritishGuy54]

What 1st party franchise do you think is most likely to get 2 new characters in the next Smash and who do you think those characters would be?

I think it’d be Super Mario with Waluigi and King Boo

Xenoblade feels particularly likely here. We could get Noah and Mio as front runners, with Elma having at least some consideration here.

I think it’s a bit more likely it gets the Kid Icarus treatment from Smash 4, being a unique newcomer, and an echo.

Spoiler: Quick Glossing Over of Xenoblade Newcomer Choices

 

[Gengar84]

I’m not sure Splatoon will get two characters but I do think a second Splatoon character of some kind (likely Octoling) is the number one most likely Smash character. The series has grown so much in such a short time that I think it’s the closest thing we have to a lock.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Xenoblade feels particularly likely here. We could get Noah and Mio as front runners, with Elma having at least some consideration here.

I think it’s a bit more likely it gets the Kid Icarus treatment from Smash 4, being a unique newcomer, and an echo.

Spoiler: Quick Glossing Over of Xenoblade Newcomer Choices

Very overlooked but realistic pick. Xenoblade indeed seems very realistic for the reasons you mentioned.

I really want to say DK and Zelda myself but I think we're lucky to get one newcomer for them.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I’m surprised Xenoblade echoes aren’t discussed more often besides some off the wall choices that don’t understand what an echo is.

Most of your echo picks are mostly relevant in the late game/DLC of their respective appearances, so I wouldn't be surprised if not a whole lot of people really know about them.

I mean heck, I played through all of Xenoblade Chronicles and Alvis seems kind of a strange pick. Like, he can and has used the Monado, but like, he's not that prominent a character. Granted, I didn't play through the Future Redeemed storyline, so I'm not up to date on him.

As for the other picks, Pneuma doesn't work as an Echo Fighter since she'd need all new special moves, and N is kind of a "meh" pick since he's literally just Noah, but edgy. I'd prefer N as an alternate costume. Nia & Dromarch would be greatly appreciated though, even if Dromarch only shows up for taunts and her Final Smash.

 

[Perkilator]

What 1st party franchise do you think is most likely to get 2 new characters in the next Smash and who do you think those characters would be?

I think it’d be Super Mario with Waluigi and King Boo

I think Mario’s an obvious answer, but as I said before, Kirby (particularly BWD and Magolor) is my pipe dream.

 

[The Prankster 16]

I’ve been playing around with something that’s kind of interesting but likely isn’t entirely accurate. I don’t know how many here have ever tried using Chat GPT but I’ve been asking it questions like ranking a character’s likelihood for Smash and comparing the likelihoods of certain characters and brainstorming ideas of what it thinks they could offer. I know the AI often hallucinates answers but it’s still pretty interesting to read what it answers. It usually writes out a pretty detailed response that actually makes sense. It’s obviously not quite the same as talking with actual people in things like the rate their chances thread but it’s a fun distraction. I also ask it questions like “who would win in a battle between these two characters?”. Fun to read even if it’s ultimately meaningless.

Oh yeah I do that sometimes to brainstorm about Switch 2 stuff or Smash speculation. For some reason though, it keeps saying they should add Arlo to the next Smash. Yeah, the puppet guy from youtube.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd say that the most likely series are:

• Splatoon (Octoling as an Echo Fighter and someone else)
• Xenoblade Chronicles (there's a couple options for this)
• Big Dropoff
• Mario (if they added Geno and felt they needed to add someone with closer ties to the Mario universe on top of that)
• Pokémon (if we somehow got Koraidon and Miraidon)

 

[Gengar84]

Oh yeah I do that sometimes to brainstorm about Switch 2 stuff or Smash speculation. For some reason though, it keeps saying they should add Arlo to the next Smash. Yeah, the puppet guy from youtube.

lol that’s pretty funny. Does it actually list reasons why they should add Arlo? I had it give a likelihood of my top 10 most wanted characters and I more or less agree with the rankings. Poor Zegram got rated extremely unlikely but that was expected. They agreed with me that Zero (from Mega Man X) was my most likely out of my personal top 10 list. I did notice that I’m able to “change its mind” pretty easily with my own arguments. No idea if that means anything or makes the initial rankings less meaningful since it changes its mind so easily based on what I say. It probably speaks more to its inaccuracy than it does to my strong argument skills but I like to think it was me lol.

I actually just asked it which franchise is most likely to get two new characters and it said Pokemon with Meowscarada and Iron Valiant. I don’t think I’ve seen a whole lot of Iron Valiant speculation or support so I wonder where it got that from. If Pokémon did get two newcomers, I wouldn’t expect them to both be from Scarlet and Violet.

 

[The Prankster 16]

lol that’s pretty funny. Does it actually list reasons why they should add Arlo? I had it give a likelihood of my top 10 most wanted characters and I more or less agree with the rankings. Poor Zegram got rated extremely unlikely but that was expected. They agreed with me that Zero (from Mega Man X) was my most likely out of my personal top 10 list. I did notice that I’m able to “change its mind” pretty easily with my own arguments. No idea if that means anything or makes the initial rankings less meaningful since it changes its mind so easily based on what I say. It probably speaks more to its inaccuracy than it does to my strong argument skills but I like to think it was me lol.

Yeah it is pretty inaccurate and isn't the most up-to-date, I think it only has data up to mid-2023 because it doesn't know about Mario Wonder. Plus when I try to do stuff like calculate the amount of Characters, Newcomers, or Echoes for a new Smash it always mixes the numbers up and I have to be very specific with what I'm calculating. It agrees with most of my choices, but I do find it funny that it usually doesn't know who Ayumi Tachibana is when I use her as a retro rep.

Mario (if they added Geno and felt they needed to add someone with closer ties to the Mario universe on top of that)

I genuinley think Geno might be a good contender for the next Smash. Obviously the Mario RPG remake came out, most of the top requested characters were added in Ultimate, and Squenix seems to be wanting closer ties with Nintendo. Although, I don't think he's a lock for base game, DLC seems more likely for him since we're probably getting 1 or 2 Mario newcomers already in the base game.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah it is pretty inaccurate and isn't the most up-to-date, I think it only has data up to mid-2023 because it doesn't know about Mario Wonder. Plus when I try to do stuff like calculate the amount of Characters, Newcomers, or Echoes for a new Smash it always mixes the numbers up and I have to be very specific with what I'm calculating. It agrees with most of my choices, but I do find it funny that it usually doesn't know who Ayumi Tachibana is when I use her as a retro rep.

It can search online for current information if you specifically ask it to. It was giving me general reviews for the current season of Arcane that just started a couple weeks ago. But yeah, it’s mostly just for entertainment and I’d say it’s only correct about 70-75% of the time so I wouldn’t trust it for anything g too important yet.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

IMO, Kamek having his proper debut in a Yoshi game as well as essentially being Yoshi's arch-enemy is enough for him to qualify as a Yoshi series character.

 

[SharkLord]

Question what does everyone think about hollow knight chances? I think they've diminished since it's sequel is taking so long to come out and keep the series relevant.

I don't see the Hollow Knight getting in over the actual player characters like the Knight or (eventually) Hornet.

(Editor's note: In Hollow Knight, you play as the Knight. The titular Hollow Knight is a different guy)

 

[Shinuto]

I don't see the Hollow Knight getting in over the actual player characters like the Knight or (eventually) Hornet.

(Editor's note: In Hollow Knight, you play as the Knight. The titular Hollow Knight is a different guy)

Come on man everyone means the knight when they say hollow knight

 

[Louie G.]

IMO, Kamek having his proper debut in a Yoshi game as well as essentially being Yoshi's arch-enemy is enough for him to qualify as a Yoshi series character.

Sure, I just think it’s valuable to acknowledge that, as it stands, Smash disagrees. I wouldn’t blink twice if Kamek showed up with that egg emblem but I don’t think it should be the way people are assessing him.

 

[Gengar84]

While I think Ultimate made great strides with these, I’d love to see both more female characters and more villains and/or antiheroes in the next game. It’s just more exciting to me to have a bit more variety. There’s a few characters I’d love to see like Jinx, Sarah Kerrigan, Velvet Crowe, Edelgarde, Medusa, and Jenna Anderson that fill both roles. We don’t have a female villain in Smash yet and there are a few really cool options.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Sure, I just think it’s valuable to acknowledge that, as it stands, Smash disagrees. I wouldn’t blink twice if Kamek showed up with that egg emblem but I don’t think it should be the way people are assessing him.

I think there's something to consider.

Do you think they'd not have one of Bowser's elite forces have the Bowser victory theme?

 

[Perkilator]

I think there's something to consider.

Do you think they'd not have one of Bowser's elite forces have the Bowser victory theme?

Maybe they can give Kamek his own unique victory theme based on the start of the big boss theme from Yoshi’s Island?

 

[ninjahmos]

I'm still kind of hoping for the next Smash game to not only have Bowser's Castle as a stage with more Bowser-centered music, but also a stage resembling Wario's Castle with more music from the Wario Land series, including a new remix of this song:

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Because I disagreed with Plant, too?

...yeah now that you mention it, I guess that was a pretty dumb thing for me to say.

I wanna clarify quick though that it wasn't targeted at you, I just used the first character I could think of at the time.

IMO, Kamek having his proper debut in a Yoshi game as well as essentially being Yoshi's arch-enemy is enough for him to qualify as a Yoshi series character.

Honestly sure, why not. It's no more arbitrary than Yoshi being separated from Marlo. Hell now that I think about it, I could see them looking at him and deciding "Y'know what, if we're stuck with Yoshi being a different series, why not add his main enemy there? Might as well take advantage of it." Especially if they decide to lean into the angle of "Yoshi's enemy" when adding him...

...or probably not since Kamek's spirit has the shroom. But maybe it'd be different if he was a playable character and they actually needed to spend more than two minutes thinking about him? IDK

 

[chinkuru]

I'm still kind of hoping for the next Smash game to not only have Bowser's Castle as a stage with more Bowser-centered music, but also a stage resembling Wario's Castle with more music from the Wario Land series, including a new remix of this song:

 

[SharkLord]

Oh, we're talking stages? Honestly I could go for a full stage revamp. We've accumulated so many 1-1 Mario grasslands, 8-bit SO RETRO stages that clas with the fighters, and traveling stages without a defined layout that it all blurs together for me. Start from scratch, focus quality over quantity. If a stage was important enough that it was already added in a past game we can keep it, but for the most part I genuinely believe we should start from the ground-up next game.

For what it's worth, the LA Super Nintendo World has roughly five Mario locales represented, if I recall correctly: Peach's Castle, Bowser's Castle, a grassland-theme, a desert-theme, and an ice-theme (Plus Mario Kart, if we count that as a distinct theme and not a ride). Admittedly I haven't played that much Mario, but I think that's a good spread of stage themes for across the entire franchise. After that we can start considering more game-specific stuff like Delfino Plaza and New Donk City

 

[smashkirby]

This doesn't count?

View attachment 396251

I mean...

Well, none of them have driven solo Clown Cars before.

Let alone the mass-produced model that was made up for Smash.

I have to admit, I do find it rather fascinating how the ESRB leak's reveal of Larry Koopa's trophy was enough to clue me in on the Koopalings potentially having the big role they currently have in Smash Bros. right now.

Since we're on the subject of Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings…

How do you guys feel about Jr.'s moveset? Do you think it's fine the way it is, or would you want to change something?

Honestly? I'm good. I'll admit that I feel like the Cannonball could do with a bit less endlag. Although, bringing this up now reminds me of Kirbeh 's idea of the Koopalings being semi-clones of Bowser Jr., and I can't say I'd be against it. I mean, Roy with his Bill Blaster ALONE...

Well there's also the wrestlers from that NES game Pro Wrestling if we ever get another random NES character.

If I may say so, I'm still holding out hope that Fighter Hayabusa and/or Star Man make it into Smash Bros.. Still though, wasn't there a legal issue preventing those characters from appearing in any future thing?

100% agree.

When it was leaked that Olimar and Bowser Jr. were getting alts that turned them into different characters I actually hoped Pichu would be a Pikachu alt because it'd at least still be playable in some form. One where you at least can't complain about it hurting itself. But since Sakurai thought Dr. Mario shouldn't be a costume because he thought of gameplay changes for the doctor in 2001, that wasn't gonna happen.

Oh, and Raichu and at least one other Pikaclone as costumes for it too.

Plusle and Minun, anyone?

Grapplers for Smash Bros? How about a literal Metal Grappler for Smash Bros? That also uses guns and bombs? And gets bonus points for being a robot bear with a visor and a mohawk?
View attachment 396273
Yes, I'm still hoping Custom Robo comes back with a new game at some point.

I kid you all not, I'm still of the idea that, provided that the tech for Smash advances in the future/Sakurai decides to go ahead with it, I'd wouldn't be opposed to having an 8-in-1 Custom Robo character with Ray as the main focus. Maybe even call the character 'Custom Robo', for good measure.

With that said, do you any of you have any ideas as to what Robos do you think would be used in the character slot alongside Ray? If anything, I'm thinking Ray MK III, alongside 7 other Robos from Arena (for DS).

Since I brought up Kirby a bit, I'm also kind of curious.

Do you guys think that after Forgotten Land's reception and the continued use of the model in Return to Dreamland Deluxe that Dedede's model might change to his current look next game?

Honestly? I kind of hope not? The Forgotten Land look isn't BAD, but I consider Super Star's Dedede to be "THE Dedede" design, if that makes sense.

What's more, I should mention that HAL and Nintendo HAVE been using OG Dedede in promo material to this day, post- F.L. and RtDL DX, so it seems they already have in mind what Dedede is the primary version.

My pipe Dream had always been both BWD and Magolor in the same game as newcomers.

For what it's worth, King Dedede AND Meta Knight joined Smash Bros. via the same game (Brawl), so B.W.D. and Magolor joining a game together isn't out of the realm of possibility.

also DS turned 20 today. Any reps that came from that DS you want to see in Smash? Mine are the Glee Club aka the Chorus Kids from Rhythm Heaven, Sylux from Metroid, and Ashley from Warioware.

A Rhythm Heaven character (preferably Yuka)
Ashley Mizuki Robbins
Kyle Hyde
Naomi Moriha (from Jet Impulse)
A Fossil Fighters rep
Zoroark
Barbara the Bat
Dr. Kawashima
Dr. Lobe
Icarus (from Glory of Heracles, if he counts)
Jake/Will/Rachel/Isabella (from the Wars games on DS)
The Elite Beat Agents and/or Ouendan
Sato Amatsubo
Aisya
A Style Savvy character
Warrior Mech Gauss
Welt and/or Idea

 

[Guynamednelson]

Plusle and Minun, anyone?

Their tails might be too stubby for tail attacks, which is admittedly another reason why Sakurai would be against making Pichu a Pikachu costume.