Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[RileyXY1]

Honestly, I'm not all that confident in Waluigi and Bandana Waddle Dee as fighters for only one reason.

The roster size.

Those two characters make perfect sense for a roster the size of Ultimate. If the next game is a continuation of Ultimate, I'd say their chances skyrocket.

But I expect the next game to be much, much smaller. If Smash has a reboot of sorts, like Sakurai said Ultimate might have been, I don't think I can really justify those two when veteran slots AND newcomer slots are going to be going to be more premium than ever.

I too think the roster's gonna get smaller. Ultimate required a lot of sacrifices to be made to become what it is now, and going even bigger requires even more sacrifices. Ultimate only had 5 total unique newcomers in the base game, and only 4 new stages. The single player modes also suffered with almost all the budget going to World of Light, Spirits, and the revamped Classic Mode. Target Blast, Event Matches, Master/Crazy Orders, and All-Star Mode were all removed and Stage Builder and Home Run Contest had to be added in through post-launch updates. Multi-Man Smash was also cut down severely with 10 Man Smash, 3 Minute Smash, and Rival Smash were cut entirely and Endless Smash was combined with All-Star Mode. I think that the next game will have to trim the roster down and have a much smaller scope than Ultimate.

 

[Gorgonzales]

So in one of Sakurai's recent videos, he says he wanted to be able to break the model's skeletons for better animation, but wasn't able to due to limitations, and lack of staff with experience in that matter.

Assuming he gets his wish, how far do you think the next game will lean into this stylistically?

"Bendy Bones" allow you to warp the model to exaggerate movements. It's what Overwatch uses, and despite these still frames looking goofy, when you see the actual animations in full it's pretty slick and looks fantastic.

I'd imagine a Smash using skeleton-breaking animation would simply do something like this, as in giving the animations even more life and personality by exaggerating them beyond what was possible before. Squash and stretch and all that, especially for the cartoonier fighters.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Let's talk about Greninja.

Do you think that the Ash Greninja transformation will be retained? Ash Greninja seems to have been phased out of the games and Ash is no longer appearing in any anime episodes.

What do you think?

 

[Kirbeh]

Let's talk about Greninja.

Do you think that the Ash Greninja transformation will be retained? Ash Greninja seems to have been phased out of the games and Ash is no longer appearing in any anime episodes.

What do you think?

Personally, I hope not.

Having an anime specific, character specific transformation always felt out place imo. That form is specific to that individual Greninja so I've never been fond of it being in Smash, though I know it was likely a marketing thing.

That and I've never liked the design itself, both in appearance and concept.

 

[Sucumbio]

Which is your Favorite FE3H or Engage

Me it's 3H and it's not even close.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Let's talk about Greninja.

Do you think that the Ash Greninja transformation will be retained? Ash Greninja seems to have been phased out of the games and Ash is no longer appearing in any anime episodes.

What do you think?

I assume probably not since it's been phased out. Since Ash isn't in the anime anymore and it's not in the games as of Gen 9, I wouldn't be surprised if that was a specific change requested by The Pokemon Company lol

If Greninja gets a Mega in Legends Z-A, though...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Let's talk about Greninja.

Do you think that the Ash Greninja transformation will be retained? Ash Greninja seems to have been phased out of the games and Ash is no longer appearing in any anime episodes.

What do you think?

I don't see any reason why they would remove it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Having an anime specific, character specific transformation always felt out place imo. That form is specific to that individual Greninja so I've never been fond of it being in Smash

Except...you can use it in the games. And I ain't Ash.

 

[Kirbeh]

Except...you can use it in the games. And I ain't Ash.

I'm aware of the gift Greninja, didn't care for it either. I just think it's weird that the whole idea is that it makes them look like Ash. A more general form that could apply to any greninja without being tied to Ash's appearance would have been better imo

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Except...you can use it in the games. And I ain't Ash.

To be fair, Battle Bond no longer transforms Greninja.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Gift Greninja was neat. It was a cool bonus for a unique ability style.

As for Smash using it, keep in mind it quite often is willing to reference the anime. And its the most logical transformation it could have.

Being the anime no longer has Ash, and the games no longer have Ash-Greninja? I could see it no longer using the transformation. They could also just keep it since there's little reason to change it anyway. Unless a new Mega form or something comes along of note.

 

[Noipoi]

Let's talk about Greninja.

Do you think that the Ash Greninja transformation will be retained? Ash Greninja seems to have been phased out of the games and Ash is no longer appearing in any anime episodes.

What do you think?

I feel like it depends on what Z-A gets up to.

Battle Bond was already removed from S/V. If Greninja gets a new mega I bet they’ll change his final smash.

 

[NintenRob]

I don't see any reason to get rid of Ash-Greninja unless a Mega Greninja is introduced. It's a stronger form, it makes sense for it being the Final Smash. It was likely phased out because Megas were phased out, and it is a mega adjacent form.


Being gone didn't stop them from using Notched ear Pichu

 

[DarthEnderX]

I just think it's weird that the whole idea is that it makes them look like Ash. A more general form that could apply to any greninja without being tied to Ash's appearance would have been better imo

It is a crap form. For sure. The only thing good about it is the water ninja star on it's back.

 

[cashregister9]

I think that Pokemon should keep Ash Greninja, just make it a special form accessed from Mega-evolving a Greninja with a special Mega stone or mega-evolving a Greninja with Battle Bond

 

[smashkirby]

When it comes to the WarioWare originals, Ashley absolutely outshines all the others in popularity, to the point where she got to be designed in a ton of various outfits, including in other Nintendo characters outfits, and she even had her own dedicated April Fools event. She also got to be in Smash Bros with a 3D appearance, the only others being Kat & Ana, she's the only WarioWare character with a Mii costume and her main song from WarioWare Touched got remixed twice, with one in Brawl and the other from Smash 4. And out of all the WarioWare characters, people who want a WarioWare rep to be playable in Smash have been the most vocal with her, since she has a lot to offer in terms of moveset potential.

Oh, I remember... ngl, this huge focus on Ashley during a time where WarioWare's future was in question sort of bugged me more than you'd think...

Mona has been in the series since the beginning, although she didn't appear to get a push in popularity until more recent games with WarioWare Gold and Get it Together. So in a sense, Ashley did upstage her in popularity kinda like Morrigan with Demitri(Also ironic how Ashley was given the cosplays when Mona's the one into fashion. Mona cosplaying as Nintendo characters would certainly give her a boost). Today, Mona can be considered the character who gets pushed the 2nd most by fans, especially in regards to an appearance in Mario Kart where she can fit very easily. She still has nowhere near a push into Smash Bros compared to Ashley, but Get it Together did give her an overall decent push in her favor.

As someone whose favorite WarioWare character IS Mona, I feel like Nintendo hasn't been using her to her full 'potential'. Like you said, as someone into fashion, it's pretty surprising that Nintendo hasn't played with the idea of Mona cosplaying as other Nintendo characters.

Also, I feel like the "weird" aspect of her character is suffering from a case of "tell, don't show". I've seen folks who consider Mona pretty bland because she doesn't seem to have much in the way of a stand-out personality. Sadly, I sort of see it. Like, the interesting stuff about her is only ever alluded to in text. I feel like Nintendo should lean into her odder tendencies more. Maybe play up her obsession with Wario (in a non-creepy way, if possible), perhaps show that her various odd jobs are taking even more of a mental toll on her than she herself lets on, etc.

I remember someone who drew this Mona fanart on Twitter sometime last year that I think REALLY encapsulated how Nintendo should have handled Mona ever since Gold, if not since the very beginning (in Mega Microgame$). If only I could find it...

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm liking how Zelda discussion is becoming more and more prevailing here, 3rd biggest topic after Mario and Pokémon. Gives me all the more confidence we're getting a newcomer this time.

 

[Oracle Link]

I'm liking how Zelda discussion is becoming more and more prevailing here, 3rd biggest topic after Mario and Pokémon. Gives me all the more confidence we're getting a newcomer this time.

Yup same with Kirby in the Smash 4 and ultimate days the topic of a newcomer was controversial now allmost everyone agrees to atleast one newcomer!
I mean more than one is still rarer but Impa and BWD seem to be pretty much accepted as good choices!

 

[fogbadge]

Let's talk about Greninja.

Do you think that the Ash Greninja transformation will be retained? Ash Greninja seems to have been phased out of the games and Ash is no longer appearing in any anime episodes.

What do you think?

they'll keep it if they want it

 

[Swamp Sensei]

they'll keep it if they want it

That is an extremely unhelpful answer.

 

[fogbadge]

That is an extremely unhelpful answer.

well that’s what happens when I respond to posts when I’ve just woken up

 

[AreJay25]

Let's talk about Greninja.

Do you think that the Ash Greninja transformation will be retained? Ash Greninja seems to have been phased out of the games and Ash is no longer appearing in any anime episodes.

What do you think?

Like others have said, it's hinging entirely on what Legends Z-A does.

I think there's a non-zero chance that the starters might just end up being the Kalos starters again, because, you know.... for some weird ass reason, the starters in the games that introduced Mega Evolution to begin with didn't actually get Mega Evolutions. So this might be Game Freak's chance to actually right that wrong.

In the event that it doesn't happen though (there's no way they do it again 10 years later, right?), I could see Ash Greninja coming back. Yeah, Ash is gone and the form isn't obtainable anymore, but it's still tied to a very important part of the franchise and I could see Sakurai wanting to maintain that.

 

[Laniv]

Let's talk about Greninja.

Do you think that the Ash Greninja transformation will be retained? Ash Greninja seems to have been phased out of the games and Ash is no longer appearing in any anime episodes.

What do you think?

Most likely, yeah. If Z-A gives us a Mega Greninja, then it's probably getting pushed aside.

And hey, if Pokemon Masters EX is anything, then Ash can probably find new life in the games.

Oh, I remember... ngl, this huge focus on Ashley during a time where WarioWare's future was in question sort of bugged me more than you'd think...

My take is this: Ashley is not a bad Smash Bros choice in a vacuum (in fact, she's actually a quite good choice), but as a WarioWare character specifically, she's kind of lame

 

[RileyXY1]

Most likely, yeah. If Z-A gives us a Mega Greninja, then it's probably getting pushed aside.

And hey, if Pokemon Masters EX is anything, then Ash can probably find new life in the games.


My take is this: Ashley is not a bad Smash Bros choice in a vacuum (in fact, she's actually a quite good choice), but as a WarioWare character specifically, she's kind of lame

The games already did. Scarlet and Violet completely removed the ability to turn into Ash-Greninja entirely. Of course Ash-Greninja can only be obtained in a demo for Sun and Moon that no one can get anymore, but still.

 

[SPEN18]

Let's talk about Greninja.

Do you think that the Ash Greninja transformation will be retained? Ash Greninja seems to have been phased out of the games and Ash is no longer appearing in any anime episodes.

What do you think?

I guess the case for it staying is, well, is there another obvious candidate for a new FS, or any reason to think they'd change it entirely (obviously this is assuming they're not doing some sort of mass overhaul on FSes in general)? And, if not, removing it is just making the current one slightly less cool, and I doubt it takes much work to put the Ash transformation in there.

 

[fogbadge]

I don’t see why ash-greninja being Z-A or not would affect it. If there’s a new mega evolution sure. But we have stuff far older than ash-greninja in smash. Look at villager and red’s designs

 

[Opossum]

It's perplexing that some people think the games removing the Ash-Greninja transformation is an issue when we have Spiky-Eared Pichu and Pikachu Libre as alts. Both of those are unobtainable outside of one specific pair of games each.

 

[fogbadge]

It's perplexing that some people think the games removing the Ash-Greninja transformation is an issue when we have Spiky-Eared Pichu and Pikachu Libre as alts. Both of those are unobtainable outside of one specific pair of games each.

exactly

 

[Kirbeh]

It's perplexing that some people think the games removing the Ash-Greninja transformation is an issue when we have Spiky-Eared Pichu and Pikachu Libre as alts. Both of those are unobtainable outside of one specific pair of games each.

I don't think the Pokemon games moving on from Ash-Greninja means it can't show up anymore.

But I do want them to get rid of it due to being so closely associated with Ash. Or at the very least place it on a specific costume slot if they want to keep it.

I just think it's a poor design as a form for Greninja as a species when it's clearly meant to be specific to Ash and his Greninja.

 

[Opossum]

I don't think the Pokemon games moving on from Ash-Greninja means it can't show up anymore.

But I do want them to get rid of it due to being so closely associated with Ash. Or at the very least place it on a specific costume slot if they want to keep it.

I just think it's a poor design as a form for Greninja as a species when it's clearly meant to be specific to Ash and his Greninja.

I mean...it is specific to Ash's Greninja.

Ash-Greninja's Original Trainer ID is listed as Ash. It's quite literally Ash's Greninja.

 

[Kirbeh]

I mean...it is specific to Ash's Greninja.

Ash-Greninja's Original Trainer ID is listed as Ash. It's quite literally Ash's Greninja.

I know but the original question was whether or not Smash Greninja should keep the reference going forward. If Smash's Greninja is intended to be Ash's Greninja then I guess it's fine but otherwise I preferred the old Final Smash as it was in 4.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Random Character Ideas: Kazuya now has a taunt throw that just tosses opponents to the ground for a guaranteed knockdown. There is a lot of lag, so you can't actually tech chase with it, and opponents can act out of it if they fall below the ledge that Kazuya was standing on, but for funzies, this taunt lets you reenact throwing people into a volcano (especially on Wuhu Island or Norfair).

 

[chinkuru]

So i quickly (not really) made a zelda roster:
View attachment 392863
I hope i'll hear your opinion of it!
(and please dont get hung up on one character i want to hear the big picture!)

For the Layout i got inspired by other Rosters Honestly Triangles fit perfectly for a zelda fighting game why haven't i thought of it myself!

No Tingle, no party

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

It's perplexing that some people think the games removing the Ash-Greninja transformation is an issue when we have Spiky-Eared Pichu and Pikachu Libre as alts. Both of those are unobtainable outside of one specific pair of games each.

Spiky-Eared Pichu I'll give you since it couldn't leave HGSS, but let's not forget that Pikachu Libre was in Pokken too lol

I feel like Ash-Greninja is a weird case though because like, even Ash's Greninja can't do it anymore because of how Battle Bond was changed to be just a stat boost now.

I definitely expect a Mega for all the Gen 6 starters in Z-A even if they aren't the games actual starter trio though, so it's kind of a moot point, since I figure they'd just alter it to be the same attack but as Mega Greninja, like how Ultimate changed it from base Greninja to Ash-Greninja.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The thing to also keep in mind is that Greninja was not based upon Ash's originally. That was done in Ultimate specifically. It was added outright probably for rule of cool/cause anime references are normal.

It's quite clear it wasn't based upon his originally in the first place. That said, there's no actual reason to change it(and it requires more work too) outside of a Mega Greninja appearing. Even then, the other visual changes(like using Kunai) are rather silly to change too. They work fine, and it's still a Ninja archtype and all. Also, as noted, they throw in costumes/etc. from stuff that later become defunct. Older references are not nor have ever been an issue. Not everything needs to be removed cause it's outdated.

 

[Arcanir]

The thing to also keep in mind is that Greninja was not based upon Ash's originally. That was done in Ultimate specifically. It was added outright probably for rule of cool/cause anime references are normal.

It's quite clear it wasn't based upon his originally in the first place. That said, there's no actual reason to change it(and it requires more work too) outside of a Mega Greninja appearing. Even then, the other visual changes(like using Kunai) are rather silly to change too. They work fine, and it's still a Ninja archtype and all. Also, as noted, they throw in costumes/etc. from stuff that later become defunct. Older references are not nor have ever been an issue. Not everything needs to be removed cause it's outdated.

IIRC, Ash's Greninja's cut attacks also used Kunai, so they may've done it as it fit as a reference on top of also tuning up the ninja archetype they were going for.

 

[Oracle Link]

Btw you guys whats your opinion on Porky (Pokey) for smash?
DO you want to see the bossfight again?
Porky outside his mech?
THe mother 2 Mech?
Old man Porky?
An assist trophy?

I think if porky is a boss again it should be either Mother 2 porky infront of the devilsmachine or mother 3 porky in the final cave
Just for that little canon spice!

The old zoo could still be a level tho (albeit with more direct beginnings reffrences!)

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Except...you can use it in the games. And I ain't Ash.

Not anymore they took it out in the most recent games.

 

[RykZyk]

Speaking of Goemon games... I suppose there's not many ways to play them via official releases, eh? :/

The only Goemon game that is officially available right now is, ironically, his very first game: Mr. Goemon, originally released in 1986 for arcades, is available on PS4 and Switch thanks to Arcade Archives.
I still don't get why there aren't Goemon games in the Nintendo Switch Online services... the Virtual Console used to have a lot of the games, especially in Japan.
But hey, at least there's emulators and ROMs out there... and honestly, it's the best way to play the Goemon games since there are patch translations of excellent quality. Highly recommend them.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Konami is kind of like that I guess.
My most wanted from that company has only ever had his original MSX installment re-released on later Nintendo systems.
Then again, the other games have only seen one re-release (on the PSP), and every game besides the aforementioned MSX original had to get at least one music track replaced in their ports...