Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[osby]

Goomba is cool but they don't have the sheer goofiness factor of a potted plant in a fighting game.

Also, it's funny how Pauline isn't considered one of the Mario frontrunners even though she seems like an obvious addition after Rosalina. I guess it's mostly because there are way too many Brawl-era requests still not in the game (Waluigi, Geno, Paper Mario, Toad, etc.).

 

[Noipoi]

Plant is probably the most wtf?? character in Smash history.

It’ll only be topped once they make the Virtual Boy a fighter.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Plant is probably the most wtf?? character in Smash history.

It’ll only be topped once they make the Virtual Boy a fighter.

I could imagine Virtual Boy being something like this in Smash.

 

[Mamboo07]

I’m pretty sure that Forgotten Land will see some notable representation, being the most recent entry and newly established as the most successful game in the series.

Have a bunch of songs/music remixes with no stage and newcomer, take it or leave it

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly, I'm not all that confident in Waluigi and Bandana Waddle Dee as fighters for only one reason.

The roster size.

Those two characters make perfect sense for a roster the size of Ultimate. If the next game is a continuation of Ultimate, I'd say their chances skyrocket.

But I expect the next game to be much, much smaller. If Smash has a reboot of sorts, like Sakurai said Ultimate might have been, I don't think I can really justify those two when veteran slots AND newcomer slots are going to be going to be more premium than ever.

 

[Noipoi]

Honestly, I'm not all that confident in Waluigi and Bandana Waddle Dee as fighters for only one reason.

The roster size.

Those two characters make perfect sense for a roster the size of Ultimate. If the next game is a continuation of Ultimate, I'd say their chances skyrocket.

But I expect the next game to be much, much smaller. If Smash has a reboot of sorts, like Sakurai said Ultimate might have been, I don't think I can really justify those two when veteran slots AND newcomer slots are going to be going to be more premium than ever.

Au contraire, mi amigo. I personally think if the next Smash isn’t Ultimate 2: Everyone is Boogaloo, it’ll follow up on the format established in Smash 4. Which focused on reps from modern Nintendo franchises, and fleshing out the supporting cast of its most iconic franchises.

Waluigi fits that bill nicely, and so does BWD.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also, it's funny how Pauline isn't considered one of the Mario frontrunners even though she seems like an obvious addition after Rosalina. I guess it's mostly because there are way too many Brawl-era requests still not in the game (Waluigi, Geno, Paper Mario, Toad, etc.).

Yeah, it's because she's actually not comparable to Rosalina & Luma. The duo got in for a cool character idea, and while that's possible for Pauline, her chances then rely on whatever idea Sakurai has, which isn't exactly calculable, and unless the Mini-Marios and/or item/band member collections spark an idea there's not a whole lot that she really offers.

The other argument in her favor that people use is the absorbtion into the sports/kart spin-off mainstays, but since those spin-offs are entirely ignored for character inclusion, it doesn't actually ammount to anything.

And then yeah, she's also up against a series icon, the fan favorite to get in the next game, the fan favorite who's chances are now or never, and characters from popular side series who could bring very unique mechanics and power fantasies to the table.

 

[Will]

Goomba is cool but they don't have the sheer goofiness factor of a potted plant in a fighting game.

Also, it's funny how Pauline isn't considered one of the Mario frontrunners even though she seems like an obvious addition after Rosalina. I guess it's mostly because there are way too many Brawl-era requests still not in the game (Waluigi, Geno, Paper Mario, Toad, etc.).

I can see Pauline speeding past Waluigi, Geno, etc and being the new face just because her resurgence in Odyssey was that impactful.

I don’t really want that, though. I’ve been waiting for Waluigi for fifteen years. I’m tired, man. If he misses his shot at the apex of his demand, I’m becoming a nihilist.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Au contraire, mi amigo. I personally think if the next Smash isn’t Ultimate 2: Everyone is Boogaloo, it’ll follow up on the format established in Smash 4. Which focused on reps from modern Nintendo franchises, and fleshing out the supporting cast of its most iconic franchises.

Waluigi fits that bill nicely, and so does BWD.

Thing is. I don't think we'll have a roster the size of Smash 4. It's going to be smaller.

 

[Louie G.]

But I expect the next game to be much, much smaller. If Smash has a reboot of sorts, like Sakurai said Ultimate might have been, I don't think I can really justify those two when veteran slots AND newcomer slots are going to be going to be more premium than ever.

It’s a reasonable concern, but cycling in new faces will always be a priority no matter what and both of these characters are frequently recurring faces in their respective series. I could theoretically see this hurting BWD since none of the current Kirby characters are expendable, but Mario’s cast can be phased out a little bit more and as long as Wario is there then Waluigi is pretty much fair game. And we always get a new Mario character.

I mean honestly, if we anticipate the roster to be shrunken down substantially then this is going to hurt ANY newcomer. There will always be this sticking point as to whether x is a fair exchange for y, if we have to cut the representation for this series and not that one, yadda yadda. Smash has this delicate tightrope to walk but at the end of the day the main thing a new game has to do is give us new content. So even if it leads to some uneven results, I’m sure there’s space for prominent fan favorite characters like these two regardless.

It’s not as if they’re going to not add anyone aside from a few because they can’t cut the roster any further and nobody else breaches like, some perceived level of importance. It would be a misstep on the heels of Ultimate, and with substantial cuts, to only add a small portion of new characters. Next game needs to rely on the fresh new faces after EIH brought emphasis to the opposite, no matter the size. I’m expecting a “normal” sized batch of base game newcomers again, or at least a few more than Ultimate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly, I'm not all that confident in Waluigi and Bandana Waddle Dee as fighters for only one reason.

The roster size.

Those two characters make perfect sense for a roster the size of Ultimate. If the next game is a continuation of Ultimate, I'd say their chances skyrocket.

But I expect the next game to be much, much smaller. If Smash has a reboot of sorts, like Sakurai said Ultimate might have been, I don't think I can really justify those two when veteran slots AND newcomer slots are going to be going to be more premium than ever.

Eh? I know they're side characters that are lower on the totem pole, but assuming enough veterans survive I wouldn't say they're off the table. Like yeah, if King Dedede's not there then Bandana Waddle Dee has no place on the roster, but is that a realistic scenario? Besides, if the roster is so small that picks like these aren't possible, then that would mean that certain franchises, like Mario, won't ever recieve newcomers again, which also doesn't sound all that realistic.

 

[Noipoi]

Thing is. I don't think we'll have a roster the size of Smash 4. It's going to be smaller.

Eh, I disagree. The way I see it the next won’t be a great big reboot, it’ll continue on as the natural progression from Wii U/3DS. Ultimate was a huge crazy celebration, but now it’s back to business as usual.

But that’s just my theory. We’re probably both wrong hell if I know

 

[Ivander]

Not a BIG deal, but I have to admit... it's kind of fascinating to imagine Ashley and Mona being likened to Darkstalkers' Morrigan and Felicia (not that I think that's off-the-mark or anything).

When it comes to the WarioWare originals, Ashley absolutely outshines all the others in popularity, to the point where she got to be designed in a ton of various outfits, including in other Nintendo characters outfits, and she even had her own dedicated April Fools event. She also got to be in Smash Bros with a 3D appearance, the only others being Kat & Ana, she's the only WarioWare character with a Mii costume and her main song from WarioWare Touched got remixed twice, with one in Brawl and the other from Smash 4. And out of all the WarioWare characters, people who want a WarioWare rep to be playable in Smash have been the most vocal with her, since she has a lot to offer in terms of moveset potential.

Mona has been in the series since the beginning, although she didn't appear to get a push in popularity until more recent games with WarioWare Gold and Get it Together. So in a sense, Ashley did upstage her in popularity kinda like Morrigan with Demitri(Also ironic how Ashley was given the cosplays when Mona's the one into fashion. Mona cosplaying as Nintendo characters would certainly give her a boost). Today, Mona can be considered the character who gets pushed the 2nd most by fans, especially in regards to an appearance in Mario Kart where she can fit very easily. She still has nowhere near a push into Smash Bros compared to Ashley, but Get it Together did give her an overall decent push in her favor.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Due to Sakurai's stance on reworks, if we get a lot of character moveset adjustments, I think it's more likely that the cause is a new central mechanic that requires all of its fighters be designed around it rather than an actual reboot, soft or otherwise. In that case, most of the changes will be making the movesets not break the game rather than to shake things up.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah I read that on the wiki and I still didn't get it. That's why I was wondering if anybody here could explain it better.

I was looking at a playthrough of the first Famicom Detective Club game to come up with some ideas for a moveset. But I didn't feel like I was getting anything so I just decided to look at the Ayumi spirit battle for references and...I still didn't get anything. lol

like I said I suspect it’s cause the second game involves a ghost story and fog and mist are often associated with ghosts

 

[Will]

Thing is. I don't think we'll have a roster the size of Smash 4. It's going to be smaller.

Pre or Post-DLC?

 

[Opossum]

I don't foresee any case where the next game has a smaller roster size than Smash 4. That's the floor for what I think we'll deal with.

 

[Royaru]

Why do people think the next Smash will be smaller? Studio 2S, the studio Nintendo and Namco created for Smash and to collaborate on Mario Kart/ARMS, has been hiring veteran developers until recently, if I recall correctly in the ads they were looking for people with experience in 2d games. It's clear that they are working on the new Smash and that it will continue to grow.

Sakurai already said at the time that Ultimate was only possible because the Smash4 team was the same and they could recycle a lot of content, and I highly doubt that this will be different, it's a cheap way to reduce development costs while increasing the game's content. Also after having sold more than 30 million, I doubt that they will slow down that pace.

Also, since all the fighters are there, updating them won't be as complicated as it was in Ultimate with Wolf and the rest.

 

[Gengar84]

I don't foresee any case where the next game has a smaller roster size than Smash 4. That's the floor for what I think we'll deal with.

Same. I think the only way that happens is if they completely overhaul the gameplay and every veteran gets reworked from the ground up. I don’t think that’s particularly likely. I’d be a bit surprised if the starting roster is much smaller than Ultimate’s pre-DLC size but we’ll see.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Why do people think the next Smash will be smaller?

Ultimate had to make obvious sacrifices to ensure EIH was possible. And that was with them reusing Smash 4 assets and continuing directly from it. There's no way they can do EIH2 again without making even bigger sacrifices. Furthermore, they were almost unable to bring one veteran back, given how many third-party companies are represented now that number is likely to be higher if they try it again.

 

[Freduardo]

We talked enough about goombas for me to obligatorily mention Dr. Goomba Tower. He is just a perfect little man.... or three goombas in coat.

I like the viewpoint that even with roster drops, it's not going to be smaller than Smash 4. That makes sense to me. That's a good floor.

That said, I still think Smash is ready to go a pokemon like multi-game route, where different games let you unlock different characters out of different single player modes that honor different games and the characters then unlock in some main "just pure vs" smash brothers game.

Then characters are never limited.

Probably not going to happen, but I like dreaming about it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So in one of Sakurai's recent videos, he says he wanted to be able to break the model's skeletons for better animation, but wasn't able to due to limitations, and lack of staff with experience in that matter.

Assuming he gets his wish, how far do you think the next game will lean into this stylistically?

 

[Noipoi]

So in one of Sakurai's recent videos, he says he wanted to be able to break the model's skeletons for better animation, but wasn't able to due to limitations, and lack of staff with experience in that matter.

Assuming he gets his wish, how far do you think the next game will lean into this stylistically?

Maybe something akin to Mario Wonder, though not with that exact same art style. Just in spirit.

More stylized designs, though still in line with their standard appearances (especially because certain companies are persnickety about how their mascots must appear at all times) and more flashy, exaggerated animations.

Not exactly whimsical cartoon, but a zanier take on a bombastic, badass action anime. With Nintendo characters.

 

[Gengar84]

So in one of Sakurai's recent videos, he says he wanted to be able to break the model's skeletons for better animation, but wasn't able to due to limitations, and lack of staff with experience in that matter.

Assuming he gets his wish, how far do you think the next game will lean into this stylistically?

I know it’s not what he meant but my mind keeps going to Mortal Kombat when I hear about breaking skeletons lol.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

If they really needed to add a mook, it should have been Goomba or Koopa. Might as well go for the best of the worst.

That said, I still think Smash is ready to go a pokemon like multi-game route, where different games let you unlock different characters out of different single player modes that honor different games and the characters then unlock in some main "just pure vs" smash brothers game.

Then characters are never limited.

Gotta Smash 'Em All

 

[osby]

I know it’s not what he meant but my mind keeps going to Mortal Kombat when I hear about breaking skeletons lol.

Funny because Mortal Kombat has one of the most boring animations in any big fighting game.

 

[Oracle Link]

So i quickly (not really) made a zelda roster:

I hope i'll hear your opinion of it!
(and please dont get hung up on one character i want to hear the big picture!)

For the Layout i got inspired by other Rosters Honestly Triangles fit perfectly for a zelda fighting game why haven't i thought of it myself!

 

[Noipoi]

Gotta Smash 'Em All

The next Smash gonna be freaky

 

[Gengar84]

Funny because Mortal Kombat has one of the most boring animations in any big fighting game.

Yeah that’s probably true too. I’m not really an expert on Fighting games but I do really like Killer Instinct. I also love the visual style of games like Guilty Gear and 2XKO. I was a big fan of Mortal Kombat 3 and Trilogy on the SNES and N64 but I haven’t really played the games much since then.

So i quickly (not really) made a zelda roster:
View attachment 392863
I hope i'll hear your opinion of it!
(and please dont get hung up on one character i want to hear the big picture!)

For the Layout i got inspired by other Rosters Honestly Triangles fit perfectly for a zelda fighting game why haven't i thought of it myself!

I love the character select screen layout. I will say that I think it leans a bit too heavily on Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom, and the Link’s Awakening remake but overall not too bad. I’d like to see someone like Darunia instead of Yunobo but that’s just personal preference. Tetra would probably be more interesting than Toy Zelda as another example. Zant also feels like kind of an omission here too. Still, I like the roster overall but I’d personally make some changes on my own.

 

[DKing]

View attachment 392864

The next Smash gonna be freaky

Never know Goomba was freaky

 

[Freduardo]

So i quickly (not really) made a zelda roster:
View attachment 392863
I hope i'll hear your opinion of it!
(and please dont get hung up on one character i want to hear the big picture!)

For the Layout i got inspired by other Rosters Honestly Triangles fit perfectly for a zelda fighting game why haven't i thought of it myself!

Super happy to see Ricky and Vaati. And Byrne.

Octorok is also great. And I'm hoping Bokoblin has a Bulbin alt.

I might swap Linebeck for King Bulbin... but he might also work as a boss fight.

 

[Oracle Link]

Super happy to see Ricky and Vaati. And Byrne.

Octorok is also great. And I'm hoping Bokoblin has a Bulbin alt.

I might swap Linebeck for King Bulbin... but he might also work as a boss fight.

You seem to be a bulblin fan! I havent really taken alts into consideration although i guess it makes sense for bokoblin to have bulbin and moblin alts!
Yeah i tired to include one character per major game in the middle! thats why linebeck is in! I also tried avoiding links and zeldas (although ravio and sheik slipped through the cracks!

I also have plans for dlc so i keep king bulblin in mind for that!

And yeah octoroks HAVE to be in every zelda game! (thats definitly a misstep in tps case)

 

[Pupp135]

Re: Wario Ware and Paper Mario

This will highly hinge on how popular these series would have been without the Wario and Mario brand names. I’ll assume the best case scenario where the franchises were as popular as what actually happened. For the Wario Ware and Paper Mario series, I guess that they would probably be passed over in Brawl given that Pikmin was the only new and relevant non-Mario series added. In the case of SSBFor, I think that there could have been a chance for both franchises if there was a gameplay hook for Sakurai as they had multiple games under their belt, and we had multiple new franchises in For. Best case scenario, we’d have Ashley/Mona and the Sticker Star protagonist, who would be added at the expense of Bowser Jr., Jigglypuff, and potentially Duck Hunt or R.O.B. I assume Ultimate would pass them over because of Ultimate’s focus on requested fighters base game and third party DLC content.

Re: Sheik
I’m truly 50-50 on Sheik’s odds of returning. On the one hand, she has been present for four mainline SSB games, which isn’t really any different from other staples like Ness, Captain Falcon, Falco, and Mr. Game & Watch. On the other hand, I feel like her additions in Brawl and For hinge on Zelda’s original gimmick included in Melee and Brawl and intended in For. In the case of For, it is possible that Sheik was pretty far in development before the split needed to occur (Being a Melee veteran probably helped, but I don’t think that’s the whole story). Because of this, I’m really unsure where she’ll be in terms of priority.

Regarding Impa directly replacing Sheik, I neither expect nor want that to happen as I find it unnessary to add a replacement character instead of just making a (semi-)clone or echo. If Impa was to join, I assume she would have a different moveset from what Sheik has.

 

[Kirbeh]

Gonna be honest, the more time passes, the more jaded I become with the speculation scene and the more I actively want an actual ground up new Smash Bros. even if it halves the roster size. Ultimate was incredible, but I'm perfectly fine with it being the end of an era.

I'd like a new Smash that can lay the foundation for a new era for the series. New models, animations, mechanics, mostly new stages, some new mode, etc. As nice as perpetual "Big number go up" for the roster size would be, Smash is more than its roster. Obviously as a crossover, it's kind of the biggest draw, but I'd like a game that doesn't just feel like Ultimate minus a few faces.

I'm not really a fan of the mentality that nothing is allowed to change for the sake of keeping what we have. It'll suck to lose it, but we already know it's not sustainable.

Granted, I know I'm in the minority opinion, nor do I think that's the direction Nintendo will ultimately go for, (and I'm probably onboard for whatever they do next) but I'd like to see something truly fresh for the series. If 4/Ultimate are our SFIV/V and MvC2, then I guess, sort of like an SF6 or MvC3 equivalent.

 

[Sucumbio]

God I love Samus.

 

[Kirbeh]

God I love Samus.

bottom text

 

[RodNutTakin]

Gonna be honest, the more time passes, the more jaded I become with the speculation scene and the more I actively want an actual ground up new Smash Bros. even if it halves the roster size. Ultimate was incredible, but I'm perfectly fine with it being the end of an era.

I'd like a new Smash that can lay the foundation for a new era for the series. New models, animations, mechanics, mostly new stages, some new mode, etc. As nice as perpetual "Big number go up" for the roster size would be, Smash is more than its roster. Obviously as a crossover, it's kind of the biggest draw, but I'd like a game that doesn't just feel like Ultimate minus a few faces.

I'm not really a fan of the mentality that nothing is allowed to change for the sake of keeping what we have. It'll suck to lose it, but we already know it's not sustainable.

Granted, I know I'm in the minority opinion, nor do I think that's the direction Nintendo will ultimately go for, (and I'm probably onboard for whatever they do next) but I'd like to see something truly fresh for the series. If 4/Ultimate are our SFIV/V and MvC2, then I guess, sort of like an SF6 or MvC3 equivalent.

Personally, at this point I think a game like that would only make the speculation scene worse. It'd perpetually be stuck on the topic of "who could they bring back?", which is a topic I imagine a lot of people would get quickly tired of. I know you could probably blame that on Ultimate, but even beyond that I cannot imagine the lineup of actual new faces for this hypothetical game to be anything beyond "predictable", which would only exacerbate the former problem.
The only way I could see this model working out, really, is if they add characters and grow things back at a rapid pace, and not at the glacial rate that Ultimate's DLC went at after the first Pass.
I personally could go for a game that still feels like Ultimate (with some things like better aerial momentum and removing the sticky platform phenomena), but with more side modes to make the game less centric on its Versus mode, even if a handful of characters had to be traded in for it (or have to arrive fashionably late.)

 

[Kirbeh]

Personally, at this point I think a game like that would only make the speculation scene worse. It'd perpetually be stuck on the topic of "who could they bring back?", which is a topic I imagine a lot of people would get quickly tired of. I know you could probably blame that on Ultimate, but even beyond that I cannot imagine the lineup of actual new faces for this hypothetical game to be anything beyond "predictable", which would only exacerbate the former problem.
The only way I could see this model working out, really, is if they add characters and grow things back at a rapid pace, and not at the glacial rate that Ultimate's DLC went at after the first Pass.
I personally could go for a game that still feels like Ultimate (with some things like better aerial momentum and removing the sticky platform phenomena), but with more side modes to make the game less centric on its Versus mode, even if a handful of characters had to be traded in for it (or have to arrive fashionably late.)

Just to clarify, I don't want this because of the speculation scene, I'm well aware of the chaos it would cause and the new circular topics/arguments it'd create. Rather, I'm already, well ready, for Smash to change and the speculation scene just exacerbates the sense of monotony given how averse to change the greater whole is.

It's really just a "I'd like something new and screw the greater speculation scene, they'll adapt eventually" harsh as that may sound.

As for how such a scenario would actually be handled then sure, preferably we'd get 30-40 characters base (counting clones to be a little more realistic) with a fairly long DLC cycle like how SFV got a whole five, 6-character seasons.

Like I said though, I fully expect the next game to be closer to an in-between of 4 and Ultimate. Closer to base Ultimate in roster size, but with a lot of characters shuffled in and out. Mechanically I expect it to be largely unchanged with mostly just rebalancing. For everything else, barebones single player and maybe one new mode that doesn't amount to much and slightly improved net code but with limited online options. Basically, diet Ultimate, but with some big third-party newcomers to serve as the new draw to mask everything else.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I would definitely kill for a Smash game that shakes up the gameplay as well as SF6 did. Obviously you can still complain about drive rush and if the game is too hyper-offense RPS focused, but I think SF6 is a really good game.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This going to be completely impractical in the era of HD gaming and Smash's size, but it's a shame we couldn't have something comparable to the Fighting Game golden age where Capcom could do several concurrent Street Fighter games all with distinct identities and rosters.

My honest dream scenario would be something like a traditional follow-up to Ultimate near the start of the next systems lifespan and then a much more radically different SSB game closer to the end of it. Have the latter be the real shake up in terms of character movesets and roster selections to allow the series to move partially in a new direction while having the safe game already out for some time for those that want the typical Smash release.