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I'd like to see how much further Sakurai can go without adding Waluigi or Bandana Dee, it’s almost a running joke at this point. Honestly if he continues the trend throughout next game I will laugh.
I think the “joke” stopped being funny after Ultimate. I’m not saying they’re obligated to add them, but the “haha Waluigi is an AT again” shtick was worn out last game and if it happens again this time it’s just going to result in a bunch of people being nasty toward anyone who had the audacity to believe he had a chance.
To be honest, this sentiment is why I don’t find any disconfirmation very funny, because 9/10 times the outcome is people being mean. Just especially when it pertains to a character like Waluigi where tensions are already as high as they are.
In respect to BWD, he’s really only been getting BIG notable breakout roles over the last few years, like Star Allies and especially Forgotten Land, so I guess I’ll controversially say that next game is the first time he feels truly essential. Before that we were trying to push in a Player 4 character who also throws you items before boss battles. He’s only really come into his own recently, so I don’t think snubbing him has ever felt like some cruel running gag.
Genuine question, did Waluigi have any notable support in the period between Melee and Brawl's launches?
My vague recollection says that Waluigi wasn't particularly liked within fan-circles, until a certain online fan comic used him as one of the leading faces of absurd Internet humor, and it snowballed from there, but that line of thinking seems to be incongruent with how Waluigi elbowed his way into lots of spinoff titles quickly after his Tennis debut (for particular comparison, Mario Tennis also reintroduced Birdo into the series post-Mario 64, but she was not attending spinoff games as frequently as Waluigi did, missing Mario Kart DS and every Mario Party prior to 7, and even missing out on the GameCube installment of Mario Tennis).
This is something I'm actually curious about, as someone who was way too young to explore the Internet back when Melee was the newest game (especially for that probably-juicy period in 2005 where Iwata had said a new Smash was being made for Nintendo's 7th-gen console, and fans had a whole year ahead of them to wonder what on Earth the game would even look like.) and also because I'm so bored I might try my hand at making a post/thread about me fantasy-footballing the Smash series soon
I think the “joke” stopped being funny after Ultimate. I’m not saying they’re obligated to add them, but the “haha Waluigi is an AT again” shtick was worn out last game and if it happens again this time it’s just going to result in a bunch of people being nasty toward anyone who had the audacity to believe he had a chance.
To be honest, this sentiment is why I don’t find any disconfirmation very funny, because 9/10 times the outcome is people being mean. Just especially when it pertains to a character like Waluigi where tensions are already as high as they are.
In respect to BWD, he’s really only been getting BIG notable breakout roles over the last few years, like Star Allies and especially Forgotten Land, so I guess I’ll controversially say that next game is the first time he feels truly essential. Before that we were trying to push in a Player 4 character who also throws you items before boss battles. He’s only really come into his own recently, so I don’t think snubbing him has ever felt like some cruel running gag.
Considering the joke gets repetitive and frustrating for Waluigi's fans, I apologize and understand where you're coming from.
For BWD... it's a matter of and IF Sakurai, who's probably his greatest obstacle, is willing to include him. This raises questions if Sakurai is gonna add content from Kirby games he didn't make. We've seen it happen in Smash 4 and Ultimate, albeit trophies and spirits. I'm also curious how long he'll keep up without acknowledging modern Kirby.
I just want the band-aid ripped off regardless of what Waluigi's role is. If he's a fighter, reveal him by the end of the first trailer(s). If he's an Assist again as I'm expecting, show that as soon as reasonably possible. Preferably without another situation where someone like gets revealed right before.
Don't leave it ambiguous with months of debate and false hope.
Genuine question, did Waluigi have any notable support in the period between Melee and Brawl's launches?
My vague recollection says that Waluigi wasn't particularly liked within fan-circles, until a certain online fan comic used him as one of the leading faces of absurd Internet humor, and it snowballed from there, but that line of thinking seems to be incongruent with how Waluigi elbowed his way into lots of spinoff titles quickly after his Tennis debut (for particular comparison, Mario Tennis also reintroduced Birdo into the series post-Mario 64, but she was not attending spinoff games as frequently as Waluigi did, missing Mario Kart DS and every Mario Party prior to 7, and even missing out on the GameCube installment of Mario Tennis).
This is something I'm actually curious about, as someone who was way too young to explore the Internet back when Melee was the newest game (especially for that probably-juicy period in 2005 where Iwata had said a new Smash was being made for Nintendo's 7th-gen console, and fans had a whole year ahead of them to wonder what on Earth the game would even look like.) and also because I'm so bored I might try my hand at making a post/thread about me fantasy-footballing the Smash series soon
I'm not fully sure how the vast internet talk was, but at least in my friend circles Waluigi was seen as this useless creatively bankrupt character, and we kinda had fun ragging on him for that.
Even with my irl friends, I remember that we used to play 3-player Mario Party 5, and the 4th CPU-controlled character would every single time be Waluigi and we'd shower him with insults for the entire game lol.
I think that Brawl in the family, along with some other stuff like his infamous victory animation in Mario Strikers, really tapped into the loser energy that the character naturally emanates, and managed to endear him to a large section of the fandom.
I don't remember him having a particularly large support pre-Brawl, though. As a character regularly appearing in Mario spin-offs though, there's always been some sort of expectations that he could show up.
well whoever wrote the smash wiki article seems to think it's a reference to the mysteries in the games. i'd say it's more likely a reference to the supposed supernatural elements in the second game
I'd like to see how much further Sakurai can go without adding Waluigi or Bandana Dee, it’s almost a running joke at this point. Honestly if he continues the trend throughout next game I will laugh.
I want to see Bandana Dee be in the situation of "My grandfather wanted him in Smash back when he was my age so I want to see him finally get in for his sake. I believe this next Smash is The one...."
Dixie Kong is the biggest omnision in the roster I feel, and by far. Planned for Brawl, had a huge revival with Tropical Freeze , yet didn't make it in Smash 4. Despite everyone heavily expecting her. She starred in her own game even, and her popularity wasn't K.Rool level but didn't fall too short on his either.
I want to see Bandana Dee be in the situation of "My grandfather wanted him in Smash back when he was my age so I want to see him finally get in for his sake. I believe this next Smash is The one...."
I'd be pretty shocked if Waluigi and Bandana Dee aren't playable. They've basically reached the status that Ridley and K. Rool once had without having the issue of physical size or relevance. There's really no reason not to include them at this point and there aren't really any super popular first parties that fill the same niche.
Let me tell you guys how zelda should be handled next time:
Just give Link and zelda all their Adult looks:
Link
Potentially some other Link outfits!
Zelda
Echoes of wisdom zelda would be a mascot costume because of how many people seem to dislike small zelda becomming the default!
Next Toon and toy link share a slot similar to olimar and alph! Toy Link is resized to fit toon links bones but he has his own face and hat physics!
Toon Link/ Toy Link
Sheik is kept (ugh) Because of fan demand
Sheik
But she ONLY has her OOT Design and has barely any changes (hence a Harp taunt)
Impa becomes a Semi clone/ Echo of Sheik with all her (ninja) looks (except resized if shes an echo!) The general bodytype is based on oot for echoes sake
Impa
Maybe (i dont know how the rights work):
She adds her knife from AOC into the mix aswell as using a diffrent looking naginata for her final smash
GAnondorf is revamped to get a moveset based on all his ganondorf appearences (i mean just so th ganon could be diffrent if he joins)
INCLUDING Dead mans volley because its a really iconic zelda move (it can be slow not spammable and reflectable tho if youre THAT worried about G Dorf having a projectile! He uses the club for his smash attacks and his sword for everything else! and of course all his specials EXCEPT flame choke get completly revamped (he also keeps the general hitbox ares for each attack just a bit bigger!)
Ganondorf
(both looks are separate costumes) And he alsohas a look inspired by his warlock armour from OOT and TP albeit resized and with the best of both designs!)
This costume and moveset love would improve zelda drastically while
A: keeping the size the same
B: Keeping all characters people want (Young link is repped via OOT Links Costume a color alt for TOON/TOY and maybe even an exact FD Replica)
C: Keeping all these weird hangups smash fans have about zelda (No Small Zelda, Sheik has to be an unique character and No projectiledorf F.E.)
D: Repping the Champion, 3d, 2d and warriors zelda branches
I think Zelda deserves atleast something like this! Will it get it? No well probably Get TOTK/BOTW Cramped down our throats with only Toon or toy link as an extra! (Seriously Im getting sick and tired of BOTW/ TOTK Merch, Cosplays, videos and the like)
How do you find this general baseline? (of course 2 additional charrcters would be neat)
Dixie Kong is the biggest omnision in the roster I feel, and by far. Planned for Brawl, had a huge revival with Tropical Freeze , yet didn't make it in Smash 4. Despite everyone heavily expecting her. She starred in her own game even, and her popularity wasn't K.Rool level but didn't fall too short on his either.
She’s definitely up there and I absolutely loved her debut game in DKC2. It’s actually my favorite platformer ever made. I think Toad is probably the bigger omission. He’s been playable in more games starting with SMB2 and even has his own spinoff series and a prominent role in the Mario movie. Depending on her moveset, Dixie is probably my most wanted first party character for Smash though.
But she ONLY has her OOT Design and has barely any changes (hence a Harp taunt)
Impa becomes a Semi clone/ Echo of Sheik with all her (ninja) looks (except resized if shes an echo!) The general bodytype is based on oot for echoes sake
Impa
Maybe (i dont know how the rights work):
She adds her knife from AOC into the mix aswell as using a diffrent looking naginata for her final smash
GAnondorf is revamped to get a moveset based on all his ganondorf appearences (i mean just so th ganon could be diffrent if he joins)
INCLUDING Dead mans volley because its a really iconic zelda move (it can be slow not spammable and reflectable tho if youre THAT worried about G Dorf having a projectile! He uses the club for his smash attacks and his sword for everything else! and of course all his specials EXCEPT flame choke get completly revamped (he also keeps the general hitbox ares for each attack just a bit bigger!)
Ganondorf
(both looks are separate costumes) And he alsohas a look inspired by his warlock armour from OOT and TP albeit resized and with the best of both designs!)
This costume and moveset love would improve zelda drastically while
A: keeping the size the same
B: Keeping all characters people want (Young link is repped via OOT Links Costume a color alt for TOON/TOY and maybe even an exact FD Replica)
C: Keeping all these weird hangups smash fans have about zelda (No Small Zelda, Sheik has to be an unique character and No projectiledorf F.E.)
D: Repping the Champion, 3d, 2d and warriors zelda branches
I think Zelda deserves atleast something like this! Will it get it? No well probably Get TOTK/BOTW Cramped down our throats with only Toon or toy link as an extra! (Seriously Im getting sick and tired of BOTW/ TOTK Merch, Cosplays, videos and the like)
How do you find this general baseline? (of course 2 additional charrcters would be neat)
But she ONLY has her OOT Design and has barely any changes (hence a Harp taunt)
Impa becomes a Semi clone/ Echo of Sheik with all her (ninja) looks (except resized if shes an echo!) The general bodytype is based on oot for echoes sake
Impa
Maybe (i dont know how the rights work):
She adds her knife from AOC into the mix aswell as using a diffrent looking naginata for her final smash
GAnondorf is revamped to get a moveset based on all his ganondorf appearences (i mean just so th ganon could be diffrent if he joins)
INCLUDING Dead mans volley because its a really iconic zelda move (it can be slow not spammable and reflectable tho if youre THAT worried about G Dorf having a projectile! He uses the club for his smash attacks and his sword for everything else! and of course all his specials EXCEPT flame choke get completly revamped (he also keeps the general hitbox ares for each attack just a bit bigger!)
Ganondorf
(both looks are separate costumes) And he alsohas a look inspired by his warlock armour from OOT and TP albeit resized and with the best of both designs!)
This costume and moveset love would improve zelda drastically while
A: keeping the size the same
B: Keeping all characters people want (Young link is repped via OOT Links Costume a color alt for TOON/TOY and maybe even an exact FD Replica)
C: Keeping all these weird hangups smash fans have about zelda (No Small Zelda, Sheik has to be an unique character and No projectiledorf F.E.)
D: Repping the Champion, 3d, 2d and warriors zelda branches
I think Zelda deserves atleast something like this! Will it get it? No well probably Get TOTK/BOTW Cramped down our throats with only Toon or toy link as an extra! (Seriously Im getting sick and tired of BOTW/ TOTK Merch, Cosplays, videos and the like)
How do you find this general baseline? (of course 2 additional charrcters would be neat)
Just a question, and there’s nothing wrong with having a different opinion, but what bothers you so much about Sheik? It sounds like you’re more than open to alternate versions of the same characters since I’ve seen you support Toon Zelda. So I wouldn’t think Sheik being another Zelda is the issue. Is it just that she only appears in a single mainline game? If that’s the case, are you also against Midna, Skull Kid, Rauru, and Urbosa? Personally, I just love Sheik’s design and her ninja inspired moveset is a lot of fun so I really want her to stick around. If you disagree, that’s cool too but I’m just curious why you’re so against her.
But she ONLY has her OOT Design and has barely any changes (hence a Harp taunt)
Impa becomes a Semi clone/ Echo of Sheik with all her (ninja) looks (except resized if shes an echo!) The general bodytype is based on oot for echoes sake
Impa
Maybe (i dont know how the rights work):
She adds her knife from AOC into the mix aswell as using a diffrent looking naginata for her final smash
GAnondorf is revamped to get a moveset based on all his ganondorf appearences (i mean just so th ganon could be diffrent if he joins)
INCLUDING Dead mans volley because its a really iconic zelda move (it can be slow not spammable and reflectable tho if youre THAT worried about G Dorf having a projectile! He uses the club for his smash attacks and his sword for everything else! and of course all his specials EXCEPT flame choke get completly revamped (he also keeps the general hitbox ares for each attack just a bit bigger!)
Ganondorf
(both looks are separate costumes) And he alsohas a look inspired by his warlock armour from OOT and TP albeit resized and with the best of both designs!)
This costume and moveset love would improve zelda drastically while
A: keeping the size the same
B: Keeping all characters people want (Young link is repped via OOT Links Costume a color alt for TOON/TOY and maybe even an exact FD Replica)
C: Keeping all these weird hangups smash fans have about zelda (No Small Zelda, Sheik has to be an unique character and No projectiledorf F.E.)
D: Repping the Champion, 3d, 2d and warriors zelda branches
I think Zelda deserves atleast something like this! Will it get it? No well probably Get TOTK/BOTW Cramped down our throats with only Toon or toy link as an extra! (Seriously Im getting sick and tired of BOTW/ TOTK Merch, Cosplays, videos and the like)
How do you find this general baseline? (of course 2 additional charrcters would be neat)
I'll be honest, I've never been a big fan of replacing Sheik with Impa. Yeah, Sheik isn't that important and prominent in the grand scheme of Zelda as a franchise, but she's a Smash staple. It's not like Impa is this massive, important player in Zelda like the Triforce wielders are, either. She alternates between being a supporting warrior doing semi-important things off-screen on her good days and being an old bag of bones that gives quests on her bad days.
Sheik is kind of like Jigglypuff and Falco. Do they make a lot of sense in a vacuum in 2024? Not really. Are Smash staples that people would miss? Absolutely.
I'll be honest, I've never been a big fan of replacing Sheik with Impa. Yeah, Sheik isn't that important and prominent in the grand scheme of Zelda as a franchise, but she's a Smash staple. It's not like Impa is this massive, important player in Zelda like the Triforce wielders are, either. She alternates between being a supporting warrior doing semi-important things off-screen on her good days and being an old bag of bones that gives quests on her bad days.
Sheik is kind of like Jigglypuff and Falco. Do they make a lot of sense in a vacuum in 2024? Not really. Are Smash staples that people would miss? Absolutely.
Same here. I actually really like the idea of Impa in Smash but not as a replacement or echo of Sheik. If anyone here has ever played Hyrule Warriors or Age of Calamity you’ll see that Impa has three great and completely unique movesets they could go with that are basically nothing like Sheik in Smash. I feel like making yet another Zelda character a clone would be a missed opportunity because we haven’t seen a truly unique Zelda character since Melee. The Warriors games show that Impa is more than capable of filling that role.
Genuine question, did Waluigi have any notable support in the period between Melee and Brawl's launches?
My vague recollection says that Waluigi wasn't particularly liked within fan-circles, until a certain online fan comic used him as one of the leading faces of absurd Internet humor, and it snowballed from there, but that line of thinking seems to be incongruent with how Waluigi elbowed his way into lots of spinoff titles quickly after his Tennis debut (for particular comparison, Mario Tennis also reintroduced Birdo into the series post-Mario 64, but she was not attending spinoff games as frequently as Waluigi did, missing Mario Kart DS and every Mario Party prior to 7, and even missing out on the GameCube installment of Mario Tennis).
I wasn't around for Brawl speculation, so I can't fully confirm, but some people here have said he did have a supportbase in the Brawl era, but he was much more niche as a pick (+ seen as a total longshot). Dosen't sound like it was comparable at all to what it is today
I think the time right now is the best for the leading three Mario characters being talked about, being Waluigi, Paper Mario, and Geno. I want to talk about all of them right now.
Waluigi:Probably has the strongest fan demand, but undeniably has the weakest moveset potential. I’m starting to think that he’s still the most unlikely of these three Mario suggestions to join.
Not only that, I see already existing characters such as Daisy, Rosalina, and Bowser Jr. being higher priority to bring back. I’m not sure if fan demand will be enough this time around, especially if a new Smash moves away from what Ultimate did and adds more supplemental characters spread out across multiple series. It’s not that Waluigi needs his own game, he just needs to do something.
Geno:If Geno gets in, my bets are on him getting in during DLC. Square Enix likes to wait until DLC from what we know, and Geno could be chosen as a legacy pick.
However, that depends on if Square Enix is involved at all. If they aren’t, even during DLC, and SMRPG was likely his big chance of a return, SE possibly not playing ball could kill his chances. I also don’t see this puppet taking priority over Cloud or Hero. And the ESRB situation might benefit his chances over say, 2B.
Paper Mario:The underdog pick of these three, but has the best of both worlds right now. A recent remake of a beloved game, like Geno. Consistent appearances over nearly 25 years, like Waluigi.
Too many people write this guy off because ‘it’s another Mario’, or ‘fan demand isn’t enough’. I think his chances are strong going into next game, with enough versatility from 6 of his own games now, and a pivot back to the classic style due to the TTYD remake might make moveset crafting a little easier.
I wasn't around for Brawl speculation, so I can't fully confirm, but some people here have said he did have a supportbase in the Brawl era, he was just much more niche as a pick (+ seen as a total longshot). Dosen't sound like it was comparable at all to what it is today
Brawl Waluigi support definitely existed, but back then and going into Smash 4, the prevailing thought was you either wanted Geno or Toad, or thought any Mario character beyond Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser was "too excessive." As Smash 4 got closer, Bowser Jr. support went up and Geno support decreased until Toad vs Bowser Jr. was the main question for speculators. Waluigi still had support, but again, was niche...much like Rosalina. So once Rosalina got in...Waluigi didn't have that big of an increase because he was already confirmed as an Assist at that point. But the seeds were planted where he was seen as a legitimate possibility in the future.
And then in the lead up to Ultimate his popularity skyrocketed precisely because the perceived barriers no longer existed, to the point where he rocketed past the likes of Toad and Paper Mario in support.
For BWD... it's a matter of and IF Sakurai, who's probably his greatest obstacle, is willing to include him. This raises questions if Sakurai is gonna add content from Kirby games he didn't make. We've seen it happen in Smash 4 and Ultimate, albeit trophies and spirits. I'm also curious how long he'll keep up without acknowledging modern Kirby.
I’m pretty sure that Forgotten Land will see some notable representation, being the most recent entry and newly established as the most successful game in the series. The RTDL remake was timed nicely to invite a bit more representation too, although I’m less confident in anything new from that front. I hope that we do, because the lack of attention dealt to the original was one of the biggest letdowns in Smash 4.
I can’t say I’m unabashedly confident (or unconfident) in BWD, they’re sitting as the most 50/50 character for me right now. This next game is easily the best position he’s ever been in, but we’ll see if Sakurai is moved. Personally I think improved modern Kirby representation can be accomplished with or without BWD, since the three characters we have in Smash are still arguably the three most important characters in the series - sufficient nonplayable content such as new stages, AT and music would satisfy me - but for many BWD would be the most direct acknowledgment of mending this issue.
I'll be honest, I've never been a big fan of replacing Sheik with Impa. Yeah, Sheik isn't that important and prominent in the grand scheme of Zelda as a franchise, but she's a Smash staple. It's not like Impa is this massive, important player in Zelda like the Triforce wielders are, either. She alternates between being a supporting warrior doing semi-important things off-screen on her good days and being an old bag of bones that gives quests on her bad days.
Sheik is kind of like Jigglypuff and Falco. Do they make a lot of sense in a vacuum in 2024? Not really. Are Smash staples that people would miss? Absolutely.
Impa is quite important in games as Skyward Sword. Arguably a bigger role Sheik had in her debut and only game. Yeah Sheik is a Smash staple now, but she's probably the reason we don't get any other Zelda characters of the same kind in Smash.
A replacement was an idea I was for before Smash 4. Before the split happened. Which I never imagined they would went for a separate Sheik, I thought it'd be better if they would take the opportunity and let Impa be the separate character with a similar enough playstyle. Think in a similar way how Toon Link was a "remixed Young Link".
Eventually, all characters have their fans. Even the most obscure ones. Everyone Is Here didn't happen for no reason. I think Sheik, amongst the likes of say Ice Climbers are definitely characters I'd personally sacrifice for the sake of having newer faces and not grandfathering characters in just for the sake of it. I look different at characters like Captain Falcon, Ness and Lucas cause they're more beloved and more referenced or simply just from the original 12. Sheik and Ice Climbers are gimmick driven inclusions and I don't think they really hold out all that well in current day.
Anyway, the Impa replacing Sheik thing? I was for that before Smash 4. Heavily advocated it too, probably the most around here. But with all the new appearances of Impa, not just Hyrule Warriors and it's sequel but say, Candence of Hyrule too as a playable character alongside Link, Zelda and the main character girl with the bandana, it says a lot about her overall. In case of a heavy reboot, I'd vote giving the priority towards Impa and leave Sheik out in case priorities are to be taken. Preferably I'd have both however, but this wasn't always the case.
I think the time right now is the best for the leading three Mario characters being talked about, being Waluigi, Paper Mario, and Geno. I want to talk about all of them right now.
Waluigi:Probably has the strongest fan demand, but undeniably has the weakest moveset potential. I’m starting to think that he’s still the most unlikely of these three Mario suggestions to join.
Not only that, I see already existing characters such as Daisy, Rosalina, and Bowser Jr. being higher priority to bring back. I’m not sure if fan demand will be enough this time around, especially if a new Smash moves away from what Ultimate did and adds more supplemental characters spread out across multiple series. It’s not that Waluigi needs his own game, he just needs to do something.
Geno:If Geno gets in, my bets are on him getting in during DLC. Square Enix likes to wait until DLC from what we know, and Geno could be chosen as a legacy pick.
However, that depends on if Square Enix is involved at all. If they aren’t, even during DLC, and SMRPG was likely his big chance of a return, SE possibly not playing ball could kill his chances. I also don’t see this puppet taking priority over Cloud or Hero. And the ESRB situation might benefit his chances over say, 2B.
Paper Mario:The underdog pick of these three, but has the best of both worlds right now. A recent remake of a beloved game, like Geno. Consistent appearances over nearly 25 years, like Waluigi.
Too many people write this guy off because ‘it’s another Mario’, or ‘fan demand isn’t enough’. I think his chances are strong going into next game, with enough versatility from 6 of his own games now, and a pivot back to the classic style due to the TTYD remake might make moveset crafting a little easier.
I agree that Paper Mario has a ton of moveset potential but I’ll be honest that the fact that he is another Mario pretty much kills my interest in him. I prefer to have unique characters over alternate versions of existing characters when possible. I’m not going to get upset or anything if we do get him, there’s just a lot more characters I’d rather see first. Someone like Goombella would be my choice for a Paper Mario rep. She’s just such a fun character and I love Goombas.
I know I just advocated for Sheik but that’s mostly because she’s been in Smash since Melee and I just personally like her as a character. Technically Sheik is a different character than the Zelda we have since each Link and Zelda are separate incarnations.
I think Waluigi is, by default, more likely than either Geno or Paper Mario because he has the most mass appeal.
When adding new Mario characters I have to imagine a big motivation is how some of these characters are recognizable and popular among every possible demographic. Waluigi appears in Mario Kart, Mario Party, the sports games… these are some of the best selling games under the Mario umbrella. The RPGs are more of an offshoot from the main branding and could see a supplemental addition alongside core series stuff, but I don’t see it taking precedent over at least one character like Waluigi who just has more clout. Geno is on the more obscure end of things and Paper Mario isn’t as uniquely exciting to most as a brand new face.
Popularity may not be the be all end all, but Mario provides one of the strongest opportunities to appeal to a casual market with a character everyone will recognize and get excited about. I really feel like this is an underrated and essential element of the Mario series’ role in Smash. This could easily extend out to someone like Toad, or arguably King Boo or Pauline with roles in highly popular Switch releases (these guys are at least a couple steps down the ladder), but I still think it will be Waluigi first and foremost.
Not at all. I think we could use more basic enemies in Smash. Piranha Plant was a fun surprise and is really unique. I’d personally love to see a Goomba or Boo for a second Mario enemy but Hammer Bro would be fun too.
Dixie Kong is the biggest omnision in the roster I feel, and by far. Planned for Brawl, had a huge revival with Tropical Freeze , yet didn't make it in Smash 4. Despite everyone heavily expecting her. She starred in her own game even, and her popularity wasn't K.Rool level but didn't fall too short on his either.
Plant was definitely an odd choice for the first basic enemy. Other enemies had a lot more obvious moveset potential but maybe that’s why they did it. Weird that Plant doesn’t have a fireball attack. That’s the main thing I think of when I think of Piranha Plant enemies in Mario. Still, I’m happy we got it since it’s always fun to see weird WTF characters that no one saw coming. It helps keep speculation from becoming too boring.
I think Piranha Plant was kind of a perfect storm. It’s one of the most iconic / recognizable Mario enemies, but is also so far abstracted from something more humanoid like a Koopa or Lakitu that its unique body structure informa its entire kit. So it succeeds on both the front of adding an iconic character that everyone will know, and something so shocking and outside the realm of anything we’ve seen so far to justify the surprise.
Under Sakurai’s usual sentiment of “this character can do something no other character can do” I think it’s the furthest extreme, and IMO it’s probably the best choice retrospectively with that in mind. So much of its kit is informed by its unique design. I suppose you could say the same of like… a Goomba, but certainly Plant’s long stem, big toothy mouth and leaves give it a bit more material to build upon than walking thumb.
I think Piranha Plant was kind of a perfect storm. It’s one of the most iconic / recognizable Mario enemies, but is also so far abstracted from something more humanoid like a Koopa or Lakitu that its unique body structure informa its entire kit. So it succeeds on both the front of adding an iconic character that everyone will know, and something so shocking and outside the realm of anything we’ve seen so far to justify the surprise.
Under Sakurai’s usual sentiment of “this character can do something no other character can do” I think it’s the furthest extreme, and IMO it’s probably the best choice retrospectively with that in mind. So much of its kit is informed by its unique design. I suppose you could say the same of like… a Goomba, but certainly Plant’s long stem, big toothy mouth and leaves give it a bit more material to build upon than walking thumb.
To be fair to Goombas, they have enough variants that could lead to a really unique and interesting moveset. There’s the paragoombas that drop little microgoombas that latch onto you like Pikmin, the Kuribo’s Shoe, and lots of other things. Plant was definitely a great WTF pick because they’re usually stationary in pipes. Seeing it walk and jump around in Smash is pretty funny.
well whoever wrote the smash wiki article seems to think it's a reference to the mysteries in the games. i'd say it's more likely a reference to the supposed supernatural elements in the second game
Yeah I read that on the wiki and I still didn't get it. That's why I was wondering if anybody here could explain it better.
I was looking at a playthrough of the first Famicom Detective Club game to come up with some ideas for a moveset. But I didn't feel like I was getting anything so I just decided to look at the Ayumi spirit battle for references and...I still didn't get anything. lol
To be fair to Goombas, they have enough variants that could lead to a really unique and interesting moveset. There’s the paragoombas that drop little microgoombas that latch onto you like Pikmin, the Kuribo’s Shoe, and lots of other things. Plant was definitely a great WTF pick because they’re usually stationary in pipes. Seeing it walk and jump around in Smash is pretty funny.
Yeah, there are enough kinds of Goombas to pull from to put something competent together. I guess what I meant is that you can build Piranha Plant’s moveset more naturally off its core design elements. The leaves can simulate flight, you could get stomped with the pot, several attacks just have Plant swinging its head around like a wrecking ball. Its stretchy stem is the basis for its Down Special, and its projectile attacks are just spat out as something with only a big prominent mouth would be prone to do. So Plant is just capitalizing on all of these unique physical traits to build a compelling moveset.
A Goomba would have to spawn in different props, summons, have hats and wings sprout off the character in a way that IMO might conflict with the should-be simple essence of “playable Goomba”. Or at least would make it a bit less focused than what we were able to achieve here.
About what characters will the community support, i really hope that Goemon gains more support than he had for the last 2 Smash games. Say whatever you want, but i think Goemon is one of the best candidates for Smash. His wacky personality and charm and his unusual fighting style about hitting people with a pipe and throwing them coins would make him a very fun fighter. Also, many great things have happened lately to the franchise: the majority of the Japan-only games are now translated thanks to the hard work of the fans, Goemon is in a Smash mod which can help his popularity, and Mystical Ninja 64 is starting to have more of a cult following. And, of course, his Mii costume, which definitely means that he's in the Sakurai and Smash Team's radar. In fact, in the video where Sakurai says that 1986 is the best year of gaming, he considers Goemon to be ONE of the reasons why he thinks 1986 was the best gaming year. Sakurai definitely has RESPECT for the franchise. So i really hope that Goemon has a chance for any next Smash game.
Yeah, honestly, that decision of making the final smashes quicker and less interactive was a bad one and a letdown. Transformation final smashes were broken, and that's what made them so much fun to use. I always thought that the reason why they decided to make the Final Smashes quicker is because they wanted the FS to be more "suitable" for competitive. IIRC, almost every official Nintendo tournament had FS meters on. And probably because they're easier to make since it's just a cutscene and not something interactive, which is understandable because of the insane amount of characters in Ultimate, which is very big even by any fighting game standars. I really hope FS can be fixed in next installments. Wario Man used to be so much fun.
gets revealed right before.
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