Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

It seems even Sony are aware of the sudden "Aloy for Smash" requests:

x.com

x.com

(Am I allowed to just post these X links now? I saw some people doing it earlier).

 

[Gengar84]

It seems even Sony are aware of the sudden "Aloy for Smash" requests:

x.com

x.com

(Am I allowed to just post these X links now? I saw some people doing it earlier).

Interesting. That doesn’t necessarily mean she’s getting in but it looks like Sony is at least open to the idea. I did really enjoy the first Horizon game so Aloy would be a welcome addition to Smash in my eyes. I feel like a Horizon stage would be pretty awesome and I’ve always liked Aloy’s theme.

(Louder) Aloy's Theme - Horizon Zero Dawn - (Extended) Main Menu Theme

Composed by Joris de Man, The Flight and Niels van der LeestAll rights belong to Sony Interactive Entertainment and Guerrilla Games.#horizonzerodawn #horizon...

m.youtube.com

 

[Sucumbio]

I now want, expect and demand a Smash Bros with 100 characters.

Y'all have out that thought in my head. Prepare to face the consequences.

Well then!

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch system

Gaming icons clash in the ultimate showdown you can play anytime, anywhere when a new entry in the Super Smash Bros.™ series arrives on the Nintendo Switch™ system!

www.smashbros.com

82. Sora
83 - 100 that's 18 newcomers!! Let's gooooo!

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

How much was Roy actually changed though? Obviously he got his redesign and some necessary new animations, but I feel like compared to Falco and Dorf (The Melee clones who were in Brawl), Roy doesn't feel that different. Like I feel Young Link is fairly comparable

I think he was remade from scratch, but aside from some A moves and actually being functional now he mostly got stat changes. Haven't played Melee in a long while but I don't remember him being as fast and furious as he is now.

 

[smashkirby]

I had a dream last night that Zael from The Last Story and Elena from Pandora’s Tower were DLC fighters in Smash 4.

I had a similar dream near the end of last year, but Zael was paired with Calista, and Aeron (the main protag of Pandora's Tower) was paired with Elena.

If I'm remembering correctly, Zael and Calista could be best described as 'Marth and Lucina using the Ice Climbers' 2-in-1 gimmick' and Aeron was being healed by Elena most of the time.

 

[Garteam]

It seems even Sony are aware of the sudden "Aloy for Smash" requests:

x.com

x.com

(Am I allowed to just post these X links now? I saw some people doing it earlier).

Ngl Aloy would be the most corporate and unexciting way to get Sony into Smash. I'd much rather have Kratos or Ratchet if a Sony pick has to be a modern PlayStation character in the vein of Aloy.

It is exciting to hear that Sony isn't generally averse to a Smash deal, though. I think it would happen as DLC, but even that's pretty exciting. Imagine Master Chief and Kratos in a single pass. People would go ape**** in the best way possible.

 

[Gengar84]

Ngl Aloy would be the most corporate and unexciting way to get Sony into Smash. I'd much rather have Kratos or Ratchet if a Sony pick has to be a modern PlayStation character in the vein of Aloy.

It is exciting to hear that Sony isn't generally averse to a Smash deal, though. I think it would happen as DLC, but even that's pretty exciting. Imagine Master Chief and Kratos in a single pass. People would go ape**** in the best way possible.

How is Aloy corporate but not Kratos? God of War is constantly pushed as one of Sony’s biggest IPs too. It’s fine if you don’t care for the game but this is a confusing take. God of War never particularly appealed to me, particularly the modern cinematic games and I really liked Horizon. So at least, speaking for myself, I’d rather have Aloy than Kratos.

 

[superprincess]

82. Sora
83 - 100 that's 18 newcomers!! Let's gooooo!

The thing about Ultimate's numbering is that it's actually kinda arbitrary. The base game ended up with 69 numbered fighters but some of the marketing material actually used the number 74 instead; counting the echoes as their own fighters and Pokémon Trainer as one. The post-DLC number can therefore be cranked up to 86, by adding the seven echoes and only counting the transformation characters as one fighter.

14 newcomers including echoes sounds more realistic. The numbering on the site wouldn't reach the revered "Fighter #100" but the CSS would have 100 slots.

 

[Wonder Smash]

What are some cosmic level Nintendo villains that could make some good Smash boss? I know Giygas is one but are there any other?

Smasherful 101.

That game was so fun! That's actually what inspired my username.

 

[BritishGuy54]

What are some cosmic level Nintendo villains that could make some good Smash boss? I know Giygas is one but are there any other?

I’ve said this before, but Xenoblade 3’s Z or Alpha would make great bosses.

 

[Gengar84]

What are some cosmic level Nintendo villains that could make some good Smash boss? I know Giygas is one but are there any other?

I think Hades, Yoseph, and Z could all make for some really cool first party bosses. I personally want a playable Medusa and Jenna Anderson so that’s why I didn’t go with them but they’d work great too. Eternatus would make for an awesome Smash boss too with its multiple forms for different stages of the fight.

 

[Perkilator]

What are some cosmic level Nintendo villains that could make some good Smash boss? I know Giygas is one but are there any other?

Marx got his time in the limelight, so now I think it's Magolor Soul's turn.

 

[SPEN18]

Everyone, let's be real, basing the entire, well, not just marketing but wholesale direction of the game on chasing a flat number of characters is about one of the shallowest things they could possibly do. There is a certain level of quality that Nintendo and Sakurai are not willing to drop beneath, and I don't think 100 characters in a base game is realistic in light of that.

I'm sure if they ever got to the 100 mark, they'd be opportunistic about flashing it to consumers as much as possible. But, come on, as a goal in itself it's, again, pretty devoid of any creative substance.

 

[Ivander]

On the 100 characters, I think it would be possible for two reasons:

1. Sakurai knows how much people would like to see their characters return and so far, while we have lost characters, we have gotten much more than we've lost per game. And considering the positive reaction to "Everybody is Here!", I think even Nintendo knows keeping as much of the characters they can is more favourable than trying a reboot roster.
2. Despite the increased number of 3rd Parties, Smash Bros. is still mostly a Nintendo game with Nintendo characters. And Nintendo characters are more easier to add in due to things like license, internal communication and whatnot. And besides having a good list of popular characters left to add into Smash Bros, they also have a wide selection of characters and franchises not in Smash they can put in.

Basically, if Nintendo can keep the majority of their own characters in per game, with a steady increase of their own characters in while losing very few or next to none when making the next game, they can likely reach 100 characters. Obviously, 3rd Parties are a different beast they need to work with, but I don't see them all disappearing or having their own issues to deal with, like Capcom, Sega, Namco and SNK. But I don't think it's impossible for Smash Bros. to eventually reach 100 characters.

 

[Oracle Link]

So let me explain:
Smash Ultimate Eternity Edition is a "port" of smash ultimate where the third Partys are replaced by nintendo Characters! Dont worry however Because Third Partys Can be added via Download (DLC or Free) The only reason theyre not in the base game is so that the game can be sold after the rights expire!
Also the difficulty of removing/ Changing third party content is why there are so many echos!
Also All Characters from Ultimate stay as they are in that game -New Models / Costumes!
Basically the skeleton for most of the game is ultimate! But slowly over the console genrations models are swapped out with better ones!
Also World of light is obviously gone replaced by a new plattformer Adventure Mode! (its not long but better than meeles!)

Also this wouldnt be Smash 6 that game would revamp a lot! and have a smaller Roster! This one counts more as a remake/ Port!
This Game would get new characters across its rereleases! With some being ported over from other Smash series!

Spoiler: The Diffrent Smash games

Smash Ultimate Eternity Edition:
All nintendo owned character are in that game! It has the most content!
Smash Sequels
Somewhat smaller Add More Third Partys andf some nintendo chars the nintendo chars end up in SUEE!
Series Specifc Smash Games
Smash games based arround one Franchis from smash! (Mario and co, Zelda, Fire EMblem) Some characters from these games graduate and become "real Smash Characters"

If we do this a HUUUUGE Smash could be possible!
I mean why cant the smash series expand?

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Everyone, let's be real, basing the entire, well, not just marketing but wholesale direction of the game on chasing a flat number of characters is about one of the shallowest things they could possibly do. There is a certain level of quality that Nintendo and Sakurai are not willing to drop beneath, and I don't think 100 characters in a base game is realistic in light of that.

I'm sure if they ever got to the 100 mark, they'd be opportunistic about flashing it to consumers as much as possible. But, come on, as a goal in itself it's, again, pretty devoid of any creative substance.

You have a point, although I feel like Everyone is here would have sounded equally as arbitrary and shallow to many before it got revealed.

 

[Sucumbio]

The thing about Ultimate's numbering is that it's actually kinda arbitrary. The base game ended up with 69 numbered fighters but some of the marketing material actually used the number 74 instead; counting the echoes as their own fighters and Pokémon Trainer as one. The post-DLC number can therefore be cranked up to 86, by adding the seven echoes and only counting the transformation characters as one fighter.

14 newcomers including echoes sounds more realistic. The numbering on the site wouldn't reach the revered "Fighter #100" but the CSS would have 100 slots.

It's cool I recall 89 being the ceiling in that discussion so 11 newcomers is the least we can expect... Out of a joke >I:<'

100 Characters in the Next Smash
Let's
F
Gooooooooooo!

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sora is fighter # 82. If they aim to reach 100 fighters milestone(Of course, this is assuming they keep the entire roster), they would need to add 18 more fighters. Do you think this is ridiculous or worth shot?

Ask, and ye shall receive!

100 unique Fighters. 27 Echoes.

What are some cosmic level Nintendo villains that could make some good Smash boss? I know Giygas is one but are there any other?

Giygas. Arceus. A half-a-dozen different Kirby villains.

The thing about Ultimate's numbering is that it's actually kinda arbitrary. The base game ended up with 69 numbered fighters but some of the marketing material actually used the number 74 instead; counting the echoes as their own fighters and Pokémon Trainer as one.

That's not true at all. The numbering for all the characters has been consistent from the EiH trailer onward. PT has been listed as 33-35 since their Ultimate reveal.

 

[SPEN18]

You have a point, although I feel like Everyone is here would have sounded equally as arbitrary and shallow to many before it got revealed.

I mean yeah I still think EiH was ultimately sacrificing too much for the sake of a marketing slogan. (Albeit a marketing slogan that worked on the masses, sure.) I still think we could've ended up with a better overall game without it.

It's maybe a bit backwards if you think about it to use old content as the primary USP for a brand new game. And since it ended up working on people, I think to an extent we do retrospectively ignore the inherent risks of such a premise if it wasn't presented to people as well as it was.

Though even still, "let's bring back as much previous content as we can and market it as the 'ultimate edition' of Smash" is still several steps above centering everything around achieving a singular number.

 

[Sucumbio]

Ask, and ye shall receive!

100 unique Fighters. 27 Echoes.

Giygas. Arceus. A half-a-dozen different Kirby villains.

That's not true at all. The numbering for all the characters has been consistent from the EiH trailer onward. PT has been listed as 33-35 since their Ultimate reveal.

Mii Mage looks familiar lol

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Though even still, "let's bring back as much previous content as we can and market it as the 'ultimate edition' of Smash" is still several steps above centering everything around achieving a singular number.

But the way you reach that number also matters. At this point they'd use Ultimate as a base and add more or less the usual amount of newcomers. It's not too far from a typical Smash sequel, while they get to use an incredible slogan that distinguishes the new game from Ultimate while also presenting it as a clear upgrade at the same time.

 

[Gengar84]

So assuming Smash just builds on top of Ultimate to reach that 100 character roster, are we thinking that’s 100 characters for the base game or after all the DLC is released?

 

[BritishGuy54]

I mean yeah I still think EiH was ultimately sacrificing too much for the sake of a marketing slogan. (Albeit a marketing slogan that worked on the masses, sure.) I still think we could've ended up with a better overall game without it.

It's maybe a bit backwards if you think about it to use old content as the primary USP for a brand new game. And since it ended up working on people, I think to an extent we do retrospectively ignore the inherent risks of such a premise if it wasn't presented to people as well as it was.

Though even still, "let's bring back as much previous content as we can and market it as the 'ultimate edition' of Smash" is still several steps above centering everything around achieving a singular number.

It would also feel a bit lacklustre to have Ultimate Deluxe be the title.

Like… Ultimate Deluxe? More Ultimate than Ultimate? Then Ultimate isn’t Ultimate…

So assuming Smash just builds on top of Ultimate to reach that 100 character roster, are we thinking that’s 100 characters for the base game or after all the DLC is released?

I think we’ll cross the 100 unique fighter threshold after DLC is all done. That isn’t accounting for clones.

 

[osby]

It would also feel a bit lacklustre to have Ultimate Deluxe be the title.

Like… Ultimate Deluxe? More Ultimate than Ultimate? Then Ultimate isn’t Ultimate…

Ultimate won't be Ultimate in any situation we get a new game.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

So assuming Smash just builds on top of Ultimate to reach that 100 character roster, are we thinking that’s 100 characters for the base game or after all the DLC is released?

If they want to use it as the slogan, it would have to be base game.

...It does sound pretty crazy.

 

[Noipoi]

It would also feel a bit lacklustre to have Ultimate Deluxe be the title.

Like… Ultimate Deluxe? More Ultimate than Ultimate? Then Ultimate isn’t Ultimate…

And when every game’s Ultimate…

No one will be

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t actually like the idea of an Ultimate Deluxe that barely adds any new content. That would be pretty pointless, especially if the Switch 2 is backwards compatible. I do think using Ultimate as a base and adding enough new content to keep it in line with a normal new Smash entry would be great though.

I think what Ultimate is lacking right now is an ambitious co-op adventure mode and other fun side modes. At some point, no matter how many characters you add, it gets kind of old when you’re just playing exhibition matches over and over. I think these modes are actually more important than the roster size, although I’m always happy to see as many characters as they can give us.

Another thing they could work on is to try to add some more interaction between the characters, like match up specific intro and victory lines. Part of the fun of crossovers like this is seeing how the characters interact with each other. That interaction is basically nonexistent at the moment, unfortunately.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Another thing they could work on is to try to add some more interaction between the characters, like match up specific intro and victory lines. Part of the fun of crossovers like this is seeing how the characters interact with each other. That interaction is basically nonexistent at the moment, unfortunately.

I also wish there was more of this than just between like the Star Fox characters and the FE Awakening characters, but I feel like Smash is kind of in an awkward position with that because I'm pretty sure about half of the roster doesn't really speak? Like out of the original 12, it's basically just Mario, Luigi, Samus sometimes, Fox, and Falcon sometimes I think. And sure, you could use text boxes for it to include more characters but I feel like that wouldn't have the same sort of vibe to it?

EDIT: Plus even some of the ones that do like Lucas or Mewtwo either reuse voice clips like Lucas reusing Lani Minella clips or one of their VAs dies like Mewtwo's Japanese VA, so they'd have to cast new voice actors or bring back old voice actors depending on circumstance, which isn't impossible, but would definitely add to costs and the work required and things.

 

[Gengar84]

I also wish there was more of this than just between like the Star Fox characters and the FE Awakening characters, but I feel like Smash is kind of in an awkward position with that because I'm pretty sure about half of the roster doesn't really speak? Like out of the original 12, it's basically just Mario, Luigi, Samus sometimes, Fox, and Falcon sometimes I think. And sure, you could use text boxes for it to include more characters but I feel like that wouldn't have the same sort of vibe to it?

That’s definitely true of some characters but I feel there are plenty that do talk that it would be worth the effort. Even Zelda and Ganondorf speak in full sentences now. The Mario cast has some minor dialogue in the games plus the whole movie (which they probably wouldn’t reference but still). I know Other M is unpopular but Samus talked in that game. Either way, you could choose to just keep those characters silent if you wanted and have their opponent react to them.

 

[Perkilator]

I also wish there was more of this than just between like the Star Fox characters and the FE Awakening characters, but I feel like Smash is kind of in an awkward position with that because I'm pretty sure about half of the roster doesn't really speak? Like out of the original 12, it's basically just Mario, Luigi, Samus sometimes, Fox, and Falcon sometimes I think. And sure, you could use text boxes for it to include more characters but I feel like that wouldn't have the same sort of vibe to it?

I feel like voiceless text boxes in an Adventure Mode would ultimately be an ideal solution to get around characters not talking.

 

[ScrubReborn]

I also wish there was more of this than just between like the Star Fox characters and the FE Awakening characters, but I feel like Smash is kind of in an awkward position with that because I'm pretty sure about half of the roster doesn't really speak? Like out of the original 12, it's basically just Mario, Luigi, Samus sometimes, Fox, and Falcon sometimes I think. And sure, you could use text boxes for it to include more characters but I feel like that wouldn't have the same sort of vibe to it?

That's true but at the same time, voiceless/non-speaking characters can still do non-verbal communication (gestures and the like), or just stand attentive while the others talk, or have others speak for them. Plus I imagine the Marios of the world would still be allowed to make basic grunts and say short phrases, which I imagine would fix some awkwardness even if he dosen't speak proper.

Also, characters like Yoshi, Donkey/Diddy Kong and the non-psychic Pokemon could still make verbal grunts while having translated dialogue in subtitles, or they could just have a translator as the plot demands (probably Lucario).

I feel like voiceless text boxes in an Adventure Mode would ultimately be an ideal solution to get around characters not talking.

Yeah and honestly, I think I'd prefer this to full voice acting at this point. Easier, and basic grunts over textboxes has its own charm to it. (Though I still would not want the mutes to speak even then, just give them grunts and no text boxes)

 

[Gengar84]

That's true but at the same time, voiceless/non-speaking characters can still do non-verbal communication (gestures and the like), or just stand attentive while the others talk, or have others speak for them. Plus I imagine the Marios of the world would still be allowed to make basic grunts and say short phrases, which I imagine would fix some awkwardness.

Also, characters like Yoshi, Donkey/Diddy Kong and the non-psychic Pokemon could still make verbal grunts while having translated dialogue in subtitles, or they could just have a translator as the plot demands (probably Lucario).

Yeah, most Pokemon can just emote and say their names in response to others talking to them. Mewtwo and Lucario can both actually have dialogue. Maybe they could even get Dan Green for Mewtwo’s English localization if they want to have him talk. That would be a fun callback.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

That's true but at the same time, voiceless/non-speaking characters can still do non-verbal communication (gestures and the like), or just stand attentive while the others talk, or have others speak for them. Plus I imagine the Marios of the world would still be allowed to make basic grunts and say short phrases, which I imagine would fix some awkwardness.

Also, characters like Yoshi, Donkey/Diddy Kong and the non-psychic Pokemon could still make verbal grunts while having translated dialogue in subtitles, or they could just have a translator as the plot demands (probably Lucario).

That would definitely work for a narrative, I guess I'm mostly just thinking for like random pre and post-battle interaction lol

Though this conversation does make me imagine Olimar trying to communicate and nobody can understand a word out of him since nobody else speaks Hocotatian, so you'd have to pair him with Mewtwo in the narrative since Mewtwo could just read his mind, and a Mewtwo/Olimar team-up in a Smash plot is a really funny mental image to me.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Mii Mage looks familiar lol

I just took the image from the Mage class from the Miitopia wiki.

So assuming Smash just builds on top of Ultimate to reach that 100 character roster, are we thinking that’s 100 characters for the base game or after all the DLC is released?

Depends if you're counting Echoes or not.

If not, there's no way they're adding 18 new Fighters to the base game.

If you are, then it's certainly possible to get 12 new Fighters/Echoes in the base game.


Personally I don't count the Echoes because...well, because Nintendo doesn't. They've given the characters numbers, and they didn't give the Echoes their own numbers. So character #100 is going to be the 100th unique Fighter.

 

[Gengar84]

I just took the image from the Mage class from the Miitopia wiki.

Depends if you're counting Echoes or not.

If not, there's no way they're adding 18 new Fighters to the base game.

If you are, then it's certainly possible to get 12 new Fighters/Echoes in the base game.


Personally I don't count the Echoes because...well, because Nintendo doesn't. They've given the characters numbers, and they didn't give the Echoes their own numbers. So character #100 is going to be the 100th unique Fighter.

She gives me Atsuko Karagi vibes from Little Witch Academia. Not sure if that’s what Sucumbio was thinking of.

 

[SPEN18]

But the way you reach that number also matters. At this point they'd use Ultimate as a base and add more or less the usual amount of newcomers. It's not too far from a typical Smash sequel, while they get to use an incredible slogan that distinguishes the new game from Ultimate while also presenting it as a clear upgrade at the same time.

It was implied from what I said that it matters how you reach the number; I'm saying exactly that you shouldn't sacrifice on quality in order to reach it.

And again, as I said, I don't think it's realistic to expect they could reach it without lowering the quality. And yes, rereleasing the exact same game and just adding content to it is sacrificing on quality that could otherwise be achieved if they made an actually new game, because much of Ult's basic architecture and assets (largely inherited from 4) will be, in its essence, well over a decade old by the time the next Smash releases, and because the next console is likely to be miles more capable than the OG Switch.

If they did reach 100, it wouldn't be wrong to market that achievement, but that marketing boost should not be a primary driving factor for the overarching direction they take, as ultimately they need to do what's healthiest for the series. Besides, Nintendo and Sakurai really don't strike me as the kind to place something like that at top priority; EiH at least had more substantive motivations for it than hanging the whole marketing scheme on an arbitrary number.

Lastly, to be clear, I'm talking about the immediate future of the series. I wouldn't project how big the roster could be in a game like 30 years from now. So when I say 100 isn't realistic, I mean for Smash 6, which is the game I'm principally concerned with atm.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Smash gets to that coveted 100....

....but Not Everyone Is Here.

 

[Ivander]

Smash gets to that coveted 100....

....but Not Everyone Is Here.

I can't believe they took out Sandbag.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Smash gets to that coveted 100....

....but Not Everyone Is Here.

Basically every character that was on Ultimate will be cut, leaving a new generation to fill the gaps.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Basically every character that was on Ultimate will be cut, leaving a new generation to fill the gaps.

That would be Everyone Is Not Here.